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  #11  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:00 PM
JB JB is offline
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Default Re: (iamalittlepepper)

Quote, originally posted by iamalittlepepper »
How many XJ do you see off road? Have you seen repair/insurance cost of aluminum paneled cars? any dents.. the whole panel has to be replaced. Any more damage to the body it is written off.

With RR the point of the brand is to go off road. Transitioning the platform to pure Al with current repair technology you mind as well say VW Phaeton is "people's car".

Just like any other technology like Hybrids.. going Al just for the sake of going too light.. comes out of the pocket some how.. just not in oil/petrol.


Modified by iamalittlepepper at 9:18 PM 5/9/2007


How many RRs do you see off-road? (seriously off-road) Fact is, anyone that can pay for an $80 grand SUV isn't going to care about aluminum repair costs. The RR is the 'style' RR. Not meant for serious off-roading, but can do it if the owner wants it.

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  #12  
Old 05-09-2007, 11:36 PM
iamalittlepepper iamalittlepepper is offline
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Default Re: (JB)

Hence why I say they are like VW saying they are People's car.

In my circle most of my friends who get RR do live on ranches or are vets.

I think stone chips are acceptable.. but say rock hits that causes dents and require replacement probably shouldn't be on a RR.

Perhaps they would use more plastic for underbelly.

Quote, originally posted by JB »


How many RRs do you see off-road? (seriously off-road) Fact is, anyone that can pay for an $80 grand SUV isn't going to care about aluminum repair costs. The RR is the 'style' RR. Not meant for serious off-roading, but can do it if the owner wants it.

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  #13  
Old 05-10-2007, 12:52 AM
Superfresa Superfresa is offline
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It is possible to fix an Aluminium panel, without replacing it. It involves heating the panel to high temperatures and its in the Hayes manual for the Series Land rovers from the 1950s - 1980s. However this wasn't entirely aluminium, it was an aluminium magnesium alloy called Birmabright. The same alloy found on WWII British Aeroplanes.

It's funny that nobody mentioned that the offroader with which Land Rover made its name was completely (Panel wise) made of Aluminium so to complain about repair costs now, talking about a Range Rover that, as mentioned above, will likely rival Bentleys on price, is being extremely picky.

I would predict the new Generation Range Rover will have 7 seats, which should be an interesting challenge for the designers, having 7 seats yet maintaining the clean sleek traditional Range Rover profile.

My concerns are two-fold. First, wether the new Aluminium structure - probably a monocoque - will be as rigid and durable as we've always known Land Rover platforms to be. I'm sure they'll keep true to their values there.

The other is price. Yes, It's the ultimate SUV and nothing comes close, and LR is interested in keeping it that way. So they can barely be blamed. But I thought the current Supercharged Range Rover was already getting stupidly priced. I guess its the only way to go though, and I just hope they develop more mainstream poroducts, for example, to take the place of the now too upmarket Discovery. I hope the Defender doesn't go ultra-premium. They should maintain a premium side on the one hand, but a mainstream range of vehicles on the other.

Lets not forget that the most enviable feature in a Land Rover is that Kings and Peasants can drive them and both look right at home. LR hasn't forgotten kings, but lets hope they dont forget the less rich either.

Quote, originally posted by JB »

The RR is the 'style' RR. Not meant for serious off-roading, but can do it if the owner wants it.

Not true. RR is all about offroad. If their owners dont take it offroad, thats their thing. Just like Ferrari owners will be unlikely be seen at a racetrack. The car itself is intended to be used on heavy offroad work every day for the next 60 years without trouble. But I think thats what you meant anyway. Just making sure.

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  #14  
Old 05-10-2007, 01:04 AM
iamalittlepepper iamalittlepepper is offline
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Modern panels will require replacement.. especially if RR is going to reuse Jaguar's technology. Not to mention aluminium is much harder to work on in repair eg crack..

But if they move to Aluminum.. it will be a big boon for dealers because they will probably be the only one equipped (at least initially) to deal with it.

Quote, originally posted by Superfresa »
It is possible to fix an Aluminium panel, without replacing it. It involves heating the panel to high temperatures and its in the Hayes manual for the Series Land rovers from the 1950s - 1980s. However this wasn't entirely aluminium, it was an aluminium magnesium alloy called Birmabright. The same alloy found on WWII British Aeroplanes.

It's funny that nobody mentioned that the offroader with which Land Rover made its name was completely (Panel wise) made of Aluminium so to complain about repair costs now, talking about a Range Rover that, as mentioned above, will likely rival Bentleys on price, is being extremely picky.

I would predict the new Generation Range Rover will have 7 seats, which should be an interesting challenge for the designers, having 7 seats yet maintaining the clean sleek traditional Range Rover profile.

My concerns are two-fold. First, wether the new Aluminium structure - probably a monocoque - will be as rigid and durable as we've always known Land Rover platforms to be. I'm sure they'll keep true to their values there.

The other is price. Yes, It's the ultimate SUV and nothing comes close, and LR is interested in keeping it that way. So they can barely be blamed. But I thought the current Supercharged Range Rover was already getting stupidly priced. I guess its the only way to go though, and I just hope they develop more mainstream poroducts, for example, to take the place of the now too upmarket Discovery. I hope the Defender doesn't go ultra-premium. They should maintain a premium side on the one hand, but a mainstream range of vehicles on the other.

Lets not forget that the most enviable feature in a Land Rover is that Kings and Peasants can drive them and both look right at home. LR hasn't forgotten kings, but lets hope they dont forget the less rich either.

Not true. RR is all about offroad. If their owners dont take it offroad, thats their thing. Just like Ferrari owners will be unlikely be seen at a racetrack. The car itself is intended to be used on heavy offroad work every day for the next 60 years without trouble. But I think thats what you meant anyway. Just making sure.

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  #15  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:11 AM
Superfresa Superfresa is offline
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Once upon a time, If you wanted to save on fuel and on the environment, you had to downsize into a Mini Cooper. These days, technology means you can be getting 8Lt/100km in a Big, properly capable SUV.

Once upon a time, If you wanted a Proper Offroaded, you had to put up with coarse highway behaviour, poor handling and uncomfortable seating. Technology means you can have a proper 4X4 that behaves well on road as well.

Now-a-days, If you want a proper 4X4, Durable and comfortable for your entire family, you have to put up with heavy weight and blunted dynamics. Land Rover once again takes a step further in Technological advances, making a structure that is predictably tough and proper, whilst cutting on weight.

I can't see the 4X4 Industry getting anywhere without Land Rover. Nissan and Toyota would have us driving dinosaurs. An example of this is on pickup trucks where they have convinced the market that Leaf springs, Drum Brakes, Part Time 4X4 and Little room inside is the latest in Technology, and in the absence of a dedicated european manufacturer in the segment, the entire Pickup (Hilux/Navarra/Rodeo) Segment was left in the 1980s. The Nissan and Toyota way. If nobody else does it, we dont have to.

I'm glad Land Rover is once again ahead of everyone else, working to solve problems that will bennefit everyone, without dropping its heritage and brilliant design and engineering.

If LR can solve their Reliability, Quality, and weight issues, That's fantastic, and they're working on all of them.

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  #16  
Old 05-10-2007, 05:14 AM
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CosworthKid CosworthKid is offline
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Default Re: (Superfresa)

I agree with Superfresa on all acounts. If there is one company i trust completely its Land Rover. They know their game all too well and they are major players. Its normal for some of us to be concerned about aluminium etc but think of it this way: u guys reckon Land Rover with all those millions of pounds in stake, with their heritage and reputation on the line, with their massive success and huge resources and research experts, they would be dumb enough to create an all-alluminium premium offroader such as the RR without having thought of every single, tiny detail over and over again? Without spending millions into testing it and being sure its the best way? I dont think so..
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2007, 05:17 AM
mzoltarp mzoltarp is offline
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Land Rover needs to lead the SUV technology growth curve toward dramatically reduced weight and much improved efficiency. At its price range, its well-heeled customers will pay the entry fee for a demonstrably better product. Ford would be wise to push the envelope.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2007, 05:19 AM
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Precisely
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:42 AM
Superfresa Superfresa is offline
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Quote, originally posted by mzoltarp »
Land Rover needs to lead the SUV technology growth curve toward dramatically reduced weight and much improved efficiency. At its price range, its well-heeled customers will pay the entry fee for a demonstrably better product. Ford would be wise to push the envelope.

They don't NEED to. They already excel at what they do. Lexus doesn't NEED to excel at handling, because it already excels at Quality and reliability. Ferrari doesn't NEED to excel at price competitiveness, because they excel at making Supercars.

Land Rover doesn't NEED to excel at weight reduction - It's already the best offroader on the market, and It also has some of the best dynamics from the offroad segment, AND its got a big tick in the versatility department. No other, properly capable 4X4 has lower weight than its Land Rover counterpart anyway...


... But It'd be nice if they DID excel at that as well.

What they DO NEED is to keep improving on reliability and Quality control.

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  #20  
Old 05-10-2007, 07:15 AM
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IcedG35 IcedG35 is online now
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Anybody else read that the Range Rover name will be placed on all American Land Rover's to give the entire lineup a more upscale reputation. The LR3/Disco will be faded out and replaced with a more upscale on-road 7 seater? Sorry I forget the source.

Honestly, I think Range Rover and Land Rover should seperate (at least take the land rover bade off Range Rovers). Range Rover should have teh classic model, the Sport, and a smaller version a.k.a. Freelander/LR2 but nicer. Land Rover should then have the Discovery (i hate LR2) and the Defender, and maybe a 5 seater to slot in between.

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