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  #31  
Old 12-23-2006, 01:47 PM
63Bonneville 63Bonneville is offline
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It looks like, and I would hope, that the MKR concept will lead the way to a RWD flagship offering from Lincoln. The goods are there, with a Mustang chassis with an IRS rear added. The twin-turbo V6 which the MKR has, I had read rumors of being developed. I know that a naturally-aspirated 3.7L V6 based on the 3.5L is going into the production 500/Montego-based MKS sedan and the "Fairlane" based large crossover; this may be good for 280-300hp.
A bit off topic: I wonder if the production MKS will be at NAIAS/Detroit, of will it debut at Chicago or New York?
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  #32  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:34 PM
2006G35 2006G35 is offline
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The 3.7 - naturally or unnaturally aspirated - is Lincoln only.
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:51 PM
mzoltarp mzoltarp is offline
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Default Re: (2006G35)

Quote, originally posted by 2006G35 »
The 3.7 - naturally or unnaturally aspirated - is Lincoln only.

For maybe like 5 minutes until Ford realizes that putting the power to the people is necessary for sales especially against the 300C and Charger as they wait and wait and wait for their own RWD sedan to show up.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2006, 02:38 AM
cuisinek cuisinek is offline
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bigger and live pictures from polish car forum
http://www.autogaleria.pl/foru...=6741
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:12 AM
Pavilion Pavilion is offline
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Default Re: (knihc2008)

Quote, originally posted by knihc2008 »
Unfortunately, this concept is totally irrelevant, because Lincoln loves to make cool concepts that never see the light of day.

I want to believe that this will see the light of day somehow moderately intact, but I know that what you say is almost always the case with Ford/Lincoln/Mercury concepts that I love. The Messenger, the 427, and especially the Navicross. I know that small elements make it to the production cars, but nothing that will take our collective breath away with a complete package.

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  #36  
Old 12-29-2006, 06:54 AM
mzoltarp mzoltarp is offline
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To say that because Ford is in debt that it will not defecit spend to force new product through the pipeline is a matter of dense thinking. They can take the Mustang platform throw IRS under it and spit out a Shelby (FAR more name clout than SVT) and a Lincoln coupe. They can stretch it and throw out an Interceptor (brilliant name and they would be moronic to change it). The OZ Falcon could either come onto the IRS Mustang platform of all these vehicles could come off of a future gen Falcon platform. A RWD Lincoln sedan is desperately needed. The regrilled Fusion and the skinned Five Hundred are Mercuries at heart. Lincoln deserves better.
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2006, 10:53 AM
jwfisher jwfisher is offline
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Unbelievable. Somebody who doesn't know the difference between ole 'Shels new motor (based on old parts) and a couple of stripes versus a "stretch" of a platform - meaning all-new sheetmetal stampings and thousands of different parts. "Throw out", indeed.
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2006, 01:39 PM
JB JB is offline
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Default Re: (mzoltarp)

Quote, originally posted by mzoltarp »
To say that because Ford is in debt that it will not defecit spend to force new product through the pipeline is a matter of dense thinking. They can take the Mustang platform throw IRS under it and spit out a Shelby (FAR more name clout than SVT) and a Lincoln coupe. They can stretch it and throw out an Interceptor (brilliant name and they would be moronic to change it). The OZ Falcon could either come onto the IRS Mustang platform of all these vehicles could come off of a future gen Falcon platform. A RWD Lincoln sedan is desperately needed. The regrilled Fusion and the skinned Five Hundred are Mercuries at heart. Lincoln deserves better.

You make it sound so simple, when in reality your suggestion is almost complete crap. YOU know the realities of car manufacturing, so why post useless garbage like this. Flaming does nobody any good........

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  #39  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:59 PM
mzoltarp mzoltarp is offline
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Default Re: (Cole)

Quote, originally posted by Cole »
You make it sound so simple, when in reality your suggestion is almost complete crap. YOU know the realities of car manufacturing, so why post useless garbage like this. Flaming does nobody any good........

Your personal attacks directed at me aside, history is littered with marques that were in the red and did not spend their way out and that resulted in them disappearing. History also shows marques that spent their way back from oblivion as counterintuitive as it sounds. VW, for example, was virtually dead for not replacing the Type I, Type II, and Type III with modern product and then foisted the horrible Type IV on the public. From the day it arrived it was a sales loser. Realizing they needed new product, they re-badged, re-hatted, and developed a new range of vehicles. They quickly reconfigured the NSU K70 with a VW grille and popped it out as a VW, they added a hatchback to the Audi 80/Fox to create the Passat/Dasher, and then spent a fortune on the Golf I/Scirocco and it saved the company.

Detroit routinely lengthens and shortens platforms to spit out new variations CHEAPLY. Look at how much mileage Chrysler got out of the K car with a myriad of clever repackaging. Prehaps they relied on it almost too long.

As for the Ford Mustang platform...

point of fact 1: the chassis' suspension both live axle and IRS are designed and ready to go.

point of fact 2: the powertrain and electronics are off the shelf items.

point of fact 3: points 1 and 2 MINIMIZE development time and cost. Yes they will need a new floorpan and external body, but computer simulating will reduce the prototype time because some variables are already known both from the previous development of the DEW lite and still older data from the DEW98 which was a longer-wheelbase sedan platform. Because they are not starting from scratch, development and cost are dramatically reduced and some very important parameters are well known.

point of fact 4: many manufacturers are rediscovering flexible platforms that can wear different "hats" and on top of that the original Mustang was quickly pulled off of a Falcon chassis by giving the Falcon a new hat. This is a time honored technique not a radical new concept.

Ford will definitely attempt to spend its way out of the dilemma it is currently in because they want to remain in business and they know they need product and lots of it fast. By skinning the Focus to replace the current one and the Five Hundred for new Lincoln product they are already showing precisely the new hat concept noted above. This strategy buys time with "new" product that isn't "all new" so they have time and revenue to develop a truly all new platform.

As for my suggestion being complete crap as you say, Ford itself has said it is toying with pulling a sedan off the Mustang chassis (and prior to that they mused about a Lincoln muscle car off the chassis) because it would be relatively easy to do. The Lincoln show car MKR is evidence of this line of thought moving forward rapidly. The Interceptor is the tangible outcome to the prior words of Ford execs musing as to how easy it would be to exploit the Mustang chassis for new product.

How expeditiously they move is really up to Ford making bold moves.

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  #40  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:53 PM
JB JB is offline
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Default Re: (mzoltarp)

Quote, originally posted by mzoltarp »
Your personal attacks directed at me aside, history is littered with marques that were in the red and did not spend their way out and that resulted in them disappearing. History also shows marques that spent their way back from oblivion as counterintuitive as it sounds. VW, for example, was virtually dead for not replacing the Type I, Type II, and Type III with modern product and then foisted the horrible Type IV on the public. From the day it arrived it was a sales loser. Realizing they needed new product, they re-badged, re-hatted, and developed a new range of vehicles. They quickly reconfigured the NSU K70 with a VW grille and popped it out as a VW, they added a hatchback to the Audi 80/Fox to create the Passat/Dasher, and then spent a fortune on the Golf I/Scirocco and it saved the company.

Detroit routinely lengthens and shortens platforms to spit out new variations CHEAPLY. Look at how much mileage Chrysler got out of the K car with a myriad of clever repackaging. Prehaps they relied on it almost too long.

As for the Ford Mustang platform...

point of fact 1: the chassis' suspension both live axle and IRS are designed and ready to go.

point of fact 2: the powertrain and electronics are off the shelf items.

point of fact 3: points 1 and 2 MINIMIZE development time and cost. Yes they will need a new floorpan and external body, but computer simulating will reduce the prototype time because some variables are already known both from the previous development of the DEW lite and still older data from the DEW98 which was a longer-wheelbase sedan platform. Because they are not starting from scratch, development and cost are dramatically reduced and some very important parameters are well known.

point of fact 4: many manufacturers are rediscovering flexible platforms that can wear different "hats" and on top of that the original Mustang was quickly pulled off of a Falcon chassis by giving the Falcon a new hat. This is a time honored technique not a radical new concept.

Ford will definitely attempt to spend its way out of the dilemma it is currently in because they want to remain in business and they know they need product and lots of it fast. By skinning the Focus to replace the current one and the Five Hundred for new Lincoln product they are already showing precisely the new hat concept noted above. This strategy buys time with "new" product that isn't "all new" so they have time and revenue to develop a truly all new platform.

As for my suggestion being complete crap as you say, Ford itself has said it is toying with pulling a sedan off the Mustang chassis (and prior to that they mused about a Lincoln muscle car off the chassis) because it would be relatively easy to do. The Lincoln show car MKR is evidence of this line of thought moving forward rapidly. The Interceptor is the tangible outcome to the prior words of Ford execs musing as to how easy it would be to exploit the Mustang chassis for new product.

How expeditiously they move is really up to Ford making bold moves.

Yes, but you surely realize that Ford has higher priorities than producing a sedan or four-door coupe that caters to such a limited audience. No automaker has been in the position Ford is in, where, in order to finance a product-driven revival, they have literally mortgaged EVERY single one of the company's assets, including the Ford trademark itself. Just to be clear, I agree with you that a product like this needs to be in Lincoln's portfolio (and based on comments by Ford executives, it likely will), but they need to delay a project like this so that they can focus on their bread and butter projects (that will actually sell in volume and make money).

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