[MBsam]

Originally Posted by 2o6

They're quite different in proportions. The Brilliance is lower with less front overhang. It's also a little wider (looking) and less sculpted (whereas the Verano looks taller). If anything, both designs are incredibly generic, and use general styling cues seen on pretty much every manufacturer out there. The whole feel of the Brilliance puts me more of the current Audi A4 in proportions, rather than the Buick Verano.


Spy shots of the H530 (known as the Brilliance A4 for quite some time) were broken in late 2010, then the entire model was released in summer of 2011. It's been on sale for a little while, now. The Verano has just gone on sale a few weeks ago.


Do you really think (either Buick or Brilliance) that they literally copied one another, then were able to turn out a finished product in a matter of a few weeks? It's not possible. The H530 has Brilliance's new styling language, which honestly doesn't really look like Buick's at all.

Sorry that's incorrect. The Verano's styling has been known for OVER a year (January 2011) and as been on sale for about 5 months. The Brilliance in its final form was shown nearly 6 months after the Verano. I had one as a tester 2 months ago and I was not the first journalist to have it by a long-shot.

If there is one thing we know about Chinese manufacturers it's that they can easily and quickly copy the look of a reputable brand. Just look through the concepts from this most recent show in Beijing...many of their models are rip-offs of things that were just recently shown in Geneva and New York. That's some quick turn-around.

Regardless, it doesn't take a very sharp eye to see that these two cars are nearly identical right down to the little antenna on top. I can't believe I am even arguing this but the absurdity has me absolutely entranced.

[2o6]

Originally Posted by MBsam

Sorry that's incorrect. The Verano's styling has been known for OVER a year (January 2011) and as been on sale for about 5 months. The Brilliance in its final form was shown nearly 6 months after the Verano. I had one as a tester 2 months ago and I was not the first journalist to have it by a long-shot.

If there is one thing we know about Chinese manufacturers it's that they can easily and quickly copy the look of a reputable brand. Just look through the concepts from this most recent show in Beijing...many of their models are rip-offs of things that were just recently shown in Geneva and New York. That's some quick turn-around.

Regardless, it doesn't take a very sharp eye to see that these two cars are nearly identical right down to the little antenna on top. I can't believe I am even arguing this but the absurdity has me absolutely entranced.

Do you know how long it takes to engineer and develop a car? Even a cloned one (you can't even clone one overnight). Even still, Brilliance's track record seems to be more than the other manufacturers on the Mainland, they seem to put a lot more effort into their cars.


The Verano's/Excelle's styling came at around the same time as each other, with the Brilliance being first by a few weeks, IIRC.


Here's another picture showing the totally different rear fascia, more pronounced trunk, lower beltline and lower proportions. Lest we not forget the totally different front and rear fascias.



Here's an early build mock-up of the design.



By comparison, here's the Verano's rear view. Much taller, bigger chunkier wheel openings, although the side strake is similar to the Brilliance's, it's not a new design trend in the slightest.





In comparison, here's an Audi A4, which the Brilliance mirrors it's proportions closer to:




Although the H530's wheels are smaller (I think some good wheels would fill it out better) it has a similar longer hood with less cab-forward appearance as the A4; the A-piller is pushed farther back. The beltline and hood line are visually lower than the Verano's. Then we take into account Brilliance's family face, and the new rear end they seem to be trying to incorporate into their new models (as seen on the Greater China concept).

They're not "clones" at all.

You can't judge all Chinese automakers by the same standard; they all are doing different things.

[MBsam]

You're changing your story about timing and then not giving any solid evidence to back it up AND you're comparing photos of the cars taken from very different angles as to obscure the proportional similarities. This car only looks slightly like the A4 directly from the rear but that has nothing to do with proportions. That's just rear-end styling.

Different front a rear facias are he EASIEST thing to change...that's why most face-lifts to current models involve those parts. Facias have nothing to do with proportions and the entire side of the Brilliance (windows, cutlines, the upsweeping crease on the bottom of the door, the door handles, even the antennas) are exact replicas of the Verano.

I'd like to see how this car does in a crash test. The Chinese don't spend nearly as much time as other manufacturers engineering their vehicles and that is evidenced by POOR crash tests and general quality. No way to argue out of that. The styling could have been easily and quickly changed after the Verano was unveiled, that's something that's much easier to do when your cars are not engineered to the same safely standards as European, American, Japanese, and South Korean brands.

I understand you really like Chinese cars and I personally have nothing against them but if a manufacturer is going to clearly and plainly rip off a more established and advanced company I'm (and the rest of the world) are not going to take them seriously.

[2o6]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. your conclusion seems to be based upon conjecture and preconcieved notions rather than fact. the proportional difference between the two are vast; theyre nommore similar than the Astra and Mazda 3. Or the current Accent and the Ford Fiesta. Look in the OP of this thread, styli g was broken around the same time as the Verano, an spyshots (on this forum) are from 2010.



Just watch the crash test of the Geely Emgrand EC7; it passed EuroNCAP with four stars.

[swizzle]

Originally Posted by 2o6

....Just watch the crash test of the Geely Emgrand EC7; it passed EuroNCAP with four stars.

And the gap closes....

[MBsam]

Originally Posted by 2o6

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. your conclusion seems to be based upon conjecture and preconcieved notions rather than fact. the proportional difference between the two are vast; theyre nommore similar than the Astra and Mazda 3. Or the current Accent and the Ford Fiesta. Look in the OP of this thread, styli g was broken around the same time as the Verano, an spyshots (on this forum) are from 2010.



Just watch the crash test of the Geely Emgrand EC7; it passed EuroNCAP with four stars.

So basically, you didn't read anything I posted previously. The Chinese are quick at their copying. No arguing that. It boggles my mind that you can't see the distinct proportional and stylistic parallels here but looks like you're just seeing what you want to see, and there is no arguing with that. I also think you're confusing proportion with styling. Two very different things.

As for crash tests...you don't even mention one from the same company. The VAST VAST majority of Chinese cars would hardly score a single star in modern American and European crash tests. No coincidence that Geely started succeeding at crash tests after they bought Volvo. Good for them! I want them to build good, unique cars but let's keep some perspective here.

[2o6]

Originally Posted by MBsam

So basically, you didn't read anything I posted previously. The Chinese are quick at their copying. No arguing that. It boggles my mind that you can't see the distinct proportional and stylistic parallels here but looks like you're just seeing what you want to see, and there is no arguing with that. I also think you're confusing proportion with styling. Two very different things.

As for crash tests...you don't even mention one from the same company. The VAST VAST majority of Chinese cars would hardly score a single star in modern American and European crash tests. No coincidence that Geely started succeeding at crash tests after they bought Volvo. Good for them! I want them to build good, unique cars but let's keep some perspective here.

I don't think they're clones, at all. Proportion and styling go hand-in-hand. Although they have some design similarities, the proportions of the Brilliance are totally different from the Verano.


Besides, the EC7 came out at roughly right before Geely bought Volvo, IIRC.

[MBsam]

Originally Posted by 2o6

I don't think they're clones, at all.

Well that doesn't make it not so.

[2o6]

Originally Posted by MBsam

Well that doesn't make it not so.

And unless you've been to China and first hand experienced this car, you can't say that either.

[Analyst]

Originally Posted by MBsam

As for crash tests...you don't even mention one from the same company.

That's because Euro NCAP never crash tested a Brilliance.

There were, however, tests made according to Euro NCAP standards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptuCDaX1wc

3 stars frontal/4 stars side

The VAST VAST majority of Chinese cars would hardly score a single star in modern American and European crash tests.

Really? And you make this claim based on what evidence?

Allow me to give you a list of all crash test results for Chinese cars done by foreign NCAP programs (official results only):

2009 - ANCAP: Great Wall V240: 2 stars
2009 - ANCAP: Great Wall SA220: 2 stars
2010 - ANCAP: Great Wall X240 Hover: 4 stars
2010 - Euro NCAP: Jiangling Landwind CV9: 2 stars
2011 - ANCAP: Chery J11: 2 stars
2011 - ANCAP: Chery J1: 3 stars
2011 - ANCAP: Geely MK: 3 stars
2011 - Euro NCAP: Geely Emgrand EC7: 4 stars
2011 - Euro NCAP: MG 6: 4 stars

(ANCAP = Australasian NCAP, uses exactly the same standards as Euro NCAP). These are all of them, not a cherry-picked set.

Here's my evidence, where's yours?

No coincidence that Geely started succeeding at crash tests after they bought Volvo. Good for them! I want them to build good, unique cars but let's keep some perspective here.

The EC7 is actually a car they made before the Volvo acquisition. I'll also suggest you read this article:

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2012/05...ys-safety-dna/

Geely broke the record for the highest score for a Chinese-made vehicle in C-NCAP back in 2011, only to break it again later the same year. 6th best score overall out of some 150 cars. Of course let's not forget the 4 stars in Euro NCAP.

They made a point that they're heavily emphasizing safety. A step in the right direction.