[swizzle]

Originally Posted by mick78

Define credible product - whilst...

I'll just say that given that Europeans think Hyundai/Kia has decades to go before they will equal VW when VW is desperately playing catch up to them and Toyota, speaks volumes. Thus the underestimation of the Chinese--though laughably predictable--is unwise. Yeah there are some counterfeits, but several mainline brands with up to date looking products. Do you really think the Chinese aren't closing the gap as the focus of their engineering 24-7?

[2o6]

Originally Posted by swizzle

I'll just say that given that Europeans think Hyundai/Kia has decades to go before they will equal VW when VW is desperately playing catch up to them and Toyota, speaks volumes. Thus the underestimation of the Chinese--though laughably predictable--is unwise. Yeah there are some counterfeits, but several mainline brands with up to date looking products. Do you really think the Chinese aren't closing the gap as the focus of their engineering 24-7?

Given some outside tests of Chinese cars, I still think they have a ways to go, and I'm typically an avid fan of their industry.

[mick78]

Originally Posted by swizzle

I'll just say that given that Europeans think Hyundai/Kia has decades to go before they will equal VW

Actually most Eruopean magazines agree that with the new i30 and Kia cee'd (as well as the Picanto), Hyundai/Kia are "tehre with VW", or at least closer than mot other European brands. No one sees a Hyundai or Kia as a cheapo car anymore, because the products are now up with the best. And in many markets already outselling Japanese and struggling European brands. (on the other hand, pricing already reflects their self confidence, though more attractive than a GErman car, they are far from cheap already).

To be seen as a premium brand is another story, even VW failed with tghe Phaeton, so IMO Hyundai/Kia are wise not ot offer their luxury range in Europe. Currently, they are offering models that sell. I on't think they want to change that....

So, to me, like most European customers, a credible car is not only having a so so copied/generic contmeporary look and attractive prices, but must be tehcnically up with the say 3, 4 best cars in class. Otherwise, it's to easy to ignore it when buying a car....