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View Full Version : Yellow Ribbons Are For Cowards.


eightballsidepocket
02-25-2005, 02:09 PM
Do you agree with Thomas Naughton? : <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><B>No yellow ribbons here<br>By Thomas Naughton, Collegian columnist </B><br><A HREF="http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews...3/421beb6d96af4" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dailycollegian.com/...96af4</A> <p>February 23, 2005<p><br>Guilt can only weigh on a person's mind for so long before they crave the act of purgation; to get the weighty feelings of shame and responsibility out of the mind - or at least the guilty parties attempt to find some kind of peace if they cannot rid themselves of a screaming conscience that implicates and indicts its possessor.<p>That said, perhaps some readers will understand why my friends and I rip yellow ribbon "support the troops" magnets off of cars or wherever people have affixed them. By ripping off these ribbons, we find a way to deal with our guilt, as though with each ribbon swiped we take back a life that was taken by this senseless war started by our senseless president and those who support him.<p>I will never say, "support the troops." I don't believe in the validity of that statement. People say, "I don't support the war, I support the troops" as though you can actually separate the two. You cannot; the troops are a part of the war, they have become the war and there is no valid dissection of the two. Other people shout with glaring eyes that we should give up our politics, give up our political affiliations in favor of "just supporting the troops." I wish everything were that easy.<p>What they really mean is that we should just give up our will, give up our identities, give up our voices to those in power. Perhaps that's just the way people aligned with the right wing choose to get rid of their guilt: blindness and ignorance.<p>I listen to talk radio very often. It's important to know who your enemies are. The pundits on the radio are the pinnacles of guiltless, shameless wonders, and I am jealous. It must feel good to believe without question, to benefit from the blind belief of young men and women who chose to join the armed forces, to sit in a radio studio in New York and admonish the public to give in like the troops, to just follow orders, to live as just a number that will soon be etched into a gravestone that no one will ever see.<p>I look into the cars of people with "support the troops" ribbons as I speed past, trying to find some trace of recognition on their face, recognition of their guilt and the fact that they have given up. I usually see nothing; just a mouth moving robotically, singing the pop hits of today or the contemporary country wine of fake cowboys who share a lot with George Bush: no shame.<p>We say, "support the troops" so that we won't feel guilty about saying "no" to war. We reason that if we say that we support the troops, somehow we aren't monsters for not saying a word when the death tolls of U.S. soldiers climbed above 1,000. Those ribbons are yellow for a reason, they are not the mark of armed forces support, they are the mark of cowards.<p>Pundits on the radio advise their cowardly listeners to approach men and women in army uniforms and say "thank you." I cannot do that. Every time I pass a person in uniform I look long and hard at them and all I can think inside to say is "I'm so sorry." I want to apologize to them, to their families and to their friends. I feel sorry that we, the people, couldn't control our own government at the outset of this conflict when most of us knew deep inside that it was a mistake.<p>Where are we now? Are we in a better place? Is the world safer for democracy? No, it is not safer and we are not in a better place. In this war that we are fighting to somehow avenge the deaths of the Sept. 11 tragedy, we have amassed a field of body bags, the number of which almost matches the number killed in the terrorist attacks four years ago. Now, we stare at yet another request for barrels of money for this war by President Bush, while people in our own country search fruitlessly for jobs to feed their starving families, while every public school gets left behind, while our elderly are ensured an uncertain future of unpaid medical bills.<p>I guess we shouldn't think about those things though, right? We should just buy a yellow magnet and slap it on the butt of our car so we can sleep at night and just let our government do whatever they want. That's supporting the troops, right?<p>Two years ago my friend Eric called me out of the blue after almost five years of silence between us. We were in a band together when we were teenagers and he had joined the army around the time I was graduating from high school. He had to join the army; he had a son to provide for in the grand tradition of many young members of the armed forces. He called me to tell me that he was going back to Iraq, against his will. He was so sad and angry and scared. He didn't say it, but I know he was calling to tell me that he might die. I didn't say it to him then, but I felt such overwhelming guilt that I couldn't do anything to keep him from going back.<p>I haven't heard from him since. I don't know if he's dead, and my guilt is alive and well. I hope that all of our family members in harm's way return alive. Until then, I can really honor their sacrifice by demanding that it finally comes to an end.

Santeno
02-25-2005, 02:48 PM
Alright guys, this is likely one of the very few times in which I will break all of our forum rules, so enjoy watching me go down in flames.<p>Having grown up in a military household; attended military school; and having both a father and a brother currently serving in Iraq and Kuwait; if you or any other asshole dares to tell me that he is sorry for them I would happily punch your teeth in. I might not fully agree with the war, but neither does my father and brother. They are doing their JOB, which BTW is not to go around killing civilians in exchange for oil.<p>On another note, your sigline is misspelled. the word Cajones means large boxes or large drawers in spanish. The word you are looking for is Cojones.

Krypton
02-25-2005, 03:55 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> I dont agree with this guy, i may not agree with the war but i support our troops. Its their job to listen to the president and the world is a safer place without saddam which means they were fighting for our saftey<br>my friend sent me these pics a few days ago<p><A HREF="http://www.veteranscava.org/photos_that_will_never_make_the.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.veteranscava.org/ph...e.htm</A> <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0">

pittVRS
02-25-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't agree with Thomas Naughton by any manner or means. Whilst i think it's bizarre that a person like George W Bush is in control of the most powerful nation in the world, and I don't agree with the war in Iraq, Naughton's argument is flawed.<p>The troops sent to Iraq are doing the best job they possibly can. Supporting the troops doesn't mean you support the war at all; It means that you care about your fellow countrymen and you want them to return safe and sound.<p>Naughton might feel sorry for troops being sent into a pointless war, but it's not for the people of a counrty to apologise for the deaths of hundreds of troops, or feel responsible for these deaths. That buck stops at the Whitehouse, or at Downing street.<p>How can people who care about other people be cowards? I f I saw him removing yellow ribbons, I'd kick his ass.<p>I personally think all allied troops should be withdrawn from Iraq and the Iraqi's should be left to get on with it. They have suffered years of violence from Saddam and that's all they know now. they won't accept that this isn't the best way to live from us Westerners, that's for the new Iraqi government to preach IMO.<p>In the UK there are 1000's of Iraqi asylum seekers and they live by totally different standards to us. It is the result of left wing applogists in this country that have allowed so many Iraqi's to settle here in the first place. i don't mind them coming here if they have something to offer our country, but most just come for the free housing, free benefits and preferential treatment dished out by our leftwing government.<p>Most peolple shy away from this discussion in the UK for fear of being branded Racist by the ultra PC brigade. I don't hate Iraqi people because they're from Iraq. What I do hate is spongers who bleed the benefits system dry and people wh come to our country with no intention of adapting to our way of life.<p>I will always support our troops because they are dealing with the sh*t that most people haven't got the cojones to deal with.<p>

chaserolls
02-25-2005, 05:59 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pittVRS</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't agree with Thomas Naughton by any manner or means. Whilst i think it's bizarre that a person like George W Bush is in control of the most powerful nation in the world, and I don't agree with the war in Iraq, Naughton's argument is flawed.<p>The troops sent to Iraq are doing the best job they possibly can. Supporting the troops doesn't mean you support the war at all; It means that you care about your fellow countrymen and you want them to return safe and sound.<p>Naughton might feel sorry for troops being sent into a pointless war, but it's not for the people of a counrty to apologise for the deaths of hundreds of troops, or feel responsible for these deaths. That buck stops at the Whitehouse, or at Downing street.<p>How can people who care about other people be cowards? I f I saw him removing yellow ribbons, I'd kick his ass.<p>I personally think all allied troops should be withdrawn from Iraq and the Iraqi's should be left to get on with it. They have suffered years of violence from Saddam and that's all they know now. they won't accept that this isn't the best way to live from us Westerners, that's for the new Iraqi government to preach IMO.<p>In the UK there are 1000's of Iraqi asylum seekers and they live by totally different standards to us. It is the result of left wing applogists in this country that have allowed so many Iraqi's to settle here in the first place. i don't mind them coming here if they have something to offer our country, but most just come for the free housing, free benefits and preferential treatment dished out by our leftwing government.<p>Most peolple shy away from this discussion in the UK for fear of being branded Racist by the ultra PC brigade. I don't hate Iraqi people because they're from Iraq. What I do hate is spongers who bleed the benefits system dry and people wh come to our country with no intention of adapting to our way of life.<p>I will always support our troops because they are dealing with the sh*t that most people haven't got the cojones to deal with.<p> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>i think his argument is that people use the yellow ribbons to help ease their guilt and aleviate their conscience. they have the allusion that supporting the troops is OK, even if you don't agree with the war that they are fighting in. I am sorry, but I agree with Mr. Naughton, I don't think you should support any aspect of such an unjust war.<p> By putting a yellow ribbon on their car, people are still supporting the war. If they really wanted to say something constructive, their bumper sticker would say something like "Regime Change Starts at Home" or "Bring Back Our Troops" etc. <p><br>And another thing, "Operation Iraqi Freedom" is not a war, it is a modern example of Imperialism <p>Bush broke 7 seperate United Nations Charters when he went into Iraq and overthrew the government. If any other country's leader broke such international laws, he'd be tried and punished for it, but Bush's propiganda machine successfully misled the world into overlooking his disdain for international law<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by chaserolls at 5:05 PM 2/25/2005</i>

pittVRS
02-25-2005, 06:23 PM
I think it ia possible to sepparate support for the war and support for the troops who fight the war.<p>If your brother, or sister joined the army and was sent to iraq, you wouldn't just stop caring about them because they are taking part in something you don't agree with. You'd support them. And for me and a lot of other people, we care about the people our countries send to war.

chaserolls
02-25-2005, 06:44 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pittVRS</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it ia possible to sepparate support for the war and support for the troops who fight the war.<p>If your brother, or sister joined the army and was sent to iraq, you wouldn't just stop caring about them because they are taking part in something you don't agree with. You'd support them. And for me and a lot of other people, we care about the people our countries send to war.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I dont mean to underline my point or undermine your's, but my brother did serve in the army Bosnia, Nigeria, Egypt, and a number of other places. <p>It's not a matter of not caring, I care considerably for all of those men and women out there and I wish more than anything that they could come home and that there could be peace in the middle east. Honestly, the US in Iraq is one of my main concerns, I have read tens of thousands of pages from almost every book on the issue and if you knew the background about the whole situation, you'd be disgusted too. <p>I completely oppose the war and I think actively opposing the war is the best way to show that you care for the safety of the troops. So long as people don't actively oppose all aspects of the war, troops are going to continue to be sent to Iraq and they will continue dying. Iraq is another 38th parrallel, but it puts our troops in even more danger. <p>Until everyone opposes the war and agrees that while the troops are doing their job, they are still responsible for their actions. I am sorry to bring up such an extreme example, but by that argument it is like not blaiming the Nazi soldiers in WWII because they were just doing their job or the Nazis who ran the concentration camps, they were just doing their job. I don't remember the exact law or at which convention the law was passed, but basically, it says that Soldiers are responsible for their actions and they have a duty to not listen to their CO's if they believe the order reflects poor judgment. <p>By agreeing to fight and fighting in an unjust war, I think the soldiers are just as culpable than the administration that sent them there. It's a matter of degrees of wrong, but it is still all wrong.<p>Sorry, I know my views are somewhat extreme, but if you read the book "Weapons of Mass Deception," you'd probably not see my views as so extreme. Also, mark my words, it's just a matter of time until the administration cooks up an excuse to go into Iran.<p>You know which country has the highest number of terrorists and which donates the most money to terrorist factions? Pakistan<br>You know which country the terrorists were from that were involved in 9-11? Saudi Arabia<br>You know which country has the worst history for human rights abuses? Iran<p>Look up PNAC on google, in 1997 a bunch of Bush's buddies tried to convince Clinton to invade Iraq and Iran . . . they've been planning this forever

Charger
02-26-2005, 10:29 AM
Im closing this down before the flaming begins.