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Tidal
02-25-2005, 02:56 AM
Here's an article from Auto Express<p><A HREF="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_ae_homepage/front_ae_homepage.php" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?...e.php</A><p>Supposedly to be presented in Geneva 06, with much bolder styling, 3 ad 5 doors, estate and a CC.<br> <br>I have a couple of doubts about it. I thought the new Stilo would be based on the current one's platform, and not the Opel/Vauxhall Astra's. Also, putting a V6 in the Stilo when their not putting one in the Croma sounds really strange to me.<p>Anyone got any more info? Or pics?<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DVieira at 10:06 AM 2/25/2005</i>

carrera4
02-25-2005, 03:41 AM
Yeah, I also heard the stilo should be based on a platform shared with the 147replacement, not the astra one... ???

r3vilo
02-25-2005, 10:52 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>auto express</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Auto Express has done it again! With Fiat due to pull the wraps from the new Croma at next week's Geneva Motor Show, this week's mag gives you an exclusive glimpse of what to expect at the Swiss spectacular in 2006. Say hello to the sensational new Stilo, which will go on sale in 18 months' time.<p>Based on an extended Vauxhall Astra platform, the car will offer improved performance and a bigger interior. Aimed at offering a stylish alternative to German rivals, it's charged with restoring the Italian firm's respectability in the hotly contested small family hatch market.<p>Buyers will have a choice of 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.4-litre petrol engines, plus two versions of the 1.9 JTD diesel. There is also talk of a new Abarth-badged flagship, powered by the 250bhp 3.2-litre V6 already used by the Alfa 147 GTA. Fitted with 19-inch wheels and a six-speed gearbox, this machine would<br>be a serious rival to the fastest models in the class, including the all-conquering new Volkswagen Golf GTI. And the launch of the Stilo can't come quickly enough. Fiat has to turn its fortunes around fast; in 2004, the company sold only 112,000 Stilos worldwide - bosses have previously said they need to shift at least 400,000 examples of the hatch to make a profit.<p>A source from within Fiat said: "The new Stilo has to be a real design piece, with a much sportier image than the current generation. The existing version aimed to emulate German models, so it was designed that way. Now, we're taking it in a different Italian direction."<p>Prices are tipped to start at around 10,000. Three and five-door variants are under development, while the firm also plans to produce a new estate and a folding hard-top coup-cabriolet to rival the forthcoming Ford Focus CC.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I'm still looking for pics. I'll post 'em if I find some <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by revilo_ at 7:29 PM 2/25/2005</i>

iakovos
02-25-2005, 05:30 PM
FIAT has lost all hope with the current Stilo (which wasn't that bad... but was rather expensive), so they didn't even put any effort with the recent facelift to do anything with it...

drugmirko
02-27-2005, 12:09 PM
<br>well here are pics that circle arround forums... not shour if you ment those DVieira:<p><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016c.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...c.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016d.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...d.jpg</A><br>

Ascariss
02-27-2005, 12:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>drugmirko</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>well here are pics that circle arround forums... not shour if you ment those DVieira:<p><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016c.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...c.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016d.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...d.jpg</A><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yup, those are AE pictures.

r0b
02-27-2005, 01:09 PM
It has a bit of Seat design, reminds me on Salsa.

PlatForm
02-27-2005, 01:51 PM
the rear lights has a bit of nissan and the curve at the rear end side more to bentley.. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

LSS_C6
02-28-2005, 03:30 AM
I realy like this new style of the stilo! Except the front lights...

Reppu
02-28-2005, 04:03 AM
The Stilo obviously needs a dramatic turn design-wise. However, those impressions are not the best way to go either. <p>Fiat desperately needs to find their own design language, something completely unique, something they lost when the Tipo was replaced.

Tidal
02-28-2005, 06:36 AM
I agree... almost <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> . I think the Bravo/Brava where very good, italian like designs, as was the first Punto. With the Stilo ( and now the Croma ) they went for a german style that doesn't suit them at all. Even something like the Idea, which by all counts is a nice enough looking car, isn't working because it lacks some flair. But the new Punto seems to be more on track, and the Panda, imo, is bang on.<p>As for these drawings, my first first impression was that they look really... speculative. I do hope their really not going for the huge grill thing, like everybody else. <br>

Pedigreepaul
02-28-2005, 06:43 AM
It's a nice shop based on this one..<p><IMG SRC="http://www.carview.co.jp/review/tiida/images/default/2_l.jpg" BORDER="0">

iakovos
02-28-2005, 09:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>drugmirko</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well here are pics that circle arround forums... not shour if you ment those DVieira:<br> <IMG SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016c.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016d.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016c.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...c.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/947016d.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://speed.supercars.net/pit...d.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually I like these blue ones... It has something from the old FIAT Topolino and the new Audis grille and Brera Mirrors...<br>It looks quite nice and can give FIAT a design direction... something they need...<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"><p><br><i>Modified by iakovos at 8:26 AM 2/28/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by iakovos at 8:27 AM 2/28/2005</i>

MrMGMan
02-28-2005, 04:19 PM
Fiat had the perfect iteration of their design language with the first version of the MK2 Punto, but somewhere along the line, they've lost all confidence in being Italian, hence the rather messy facelift to the Punto, and the looks of the current Stilo. I don't particularly like these artists impressions of the new model, but it is much more interesting to look at that than the cheap VW Golf knock-off that the current model is.

iakovos
02-28-2005, 05:03 PM
I think that FIAT got scared with the failure of Multipla .... a overall good car... but UGLY.. very UGLY... after that they've shied away from anything daring...<p>Didn't Bangle design Multipla Mk1 ?

MrMGMan
03-01-2005, 07:57 AM
Well producing bland designs is certainly doing them no favours. I read in Auto Express that Fiat predicted it would have to sell at least 400,000 Stilo's a year to make a return on their investment in the model, and last year they managed to sell a very poor 112,000 worldwide.<p>Fiat is now almost solely reliant on the new Panda and Punto to generate showroom traffic and sales. Let's hope buyers take to the new Punto as well as they took to the current version, and that Stilo buyers take to the next model markedly better than they have to the current generation.

CalinG7
03-01-2005, 01:17 PM
Talk about a bandwagon. That big, rectangular schnoz is showing up everywhere. That concept drawing doestn' look half bad, but by the time Fiat comes out with it, big grilles will be out.

LSS_C6
03-04-2005, 11:29 AM
The actul Stilo didn`T had the success that FIAT expected...to bad, because it`s quite a fine car, but the quality ain`t at the level of the oposite ones!<p>I hope the next one to be well succed and i hope FIAT get trough this dramatic financial problem and raises to the top of sales again!

Gunfire
03-06-2005, 05:33 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>PlatForm</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the rear lights has a bit of nissan and the curve at the rear end side more to bentley.. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Talking about Bentley... the alloys remind me A LOT of the Continental's...<br>(I wish the REST looked a bit more like it...)<p>And the front (grille + lights) is really derivative from the restyled A4...<p>Come on, Fiat can do much better than this !! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> (they can forget the Stilo, and start from the Bravo to come up with a good concept!)

Tidal
06-28-2005, 01:44 PM
From <A HREF="http://www.autohoje.com/noticias.aspx?ct=1a32c110" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autohoje.com/noticias.aspx?ct=1a32c110</A><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Fiat has surprised the worlds auto-industry by choosing Austria's Magna Steyr to develop the substitute to the Stilo, setting aside several Italian companies. This choice will not come cheap, has Magna Steyr is set to charge 40% more than it's direct competitors, but is justified by the deadlines demanded by Fiat.<p>According to Fiats wishes, the new new model should start production late 06, with a market arrival set for summer 07, at the latest.<p>CEO Sergio Marchionne is quoted to have said " We need the new car at the speed of light, and Magna Steyr was the only company that gave us guaranties of fulfilling the deadlines " <p>It should be noted that Fiat has already declined two possible successors to the Stilo, which is going through a bad sales period. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p><A HREF="http://www.autohoje.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autohoje.com</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DeadDave at 10:01 PM 6/28/2005</i>

toby2449
06-29-2005, 01:42 AM
<br>I agree with the actions taken by Fiat's CEO, anything that can be done to get a new Stilo to the market ASAP has to be done. The segment is simply too important in Europe for Fiat to be lagging behind so badly, especially now that the new Golf/Focus etc have arrived on the scene (although why anyone buys mundane Golfs or Focus is beyond me!)<p>Ofcourse theres no point rushing through another woeful car, but i think Fiat is in safe hands, management know they can't afford to get new cars wrong now!

salebg
12-17-2005, 07:17 AM
<A HREF="http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8322/01004918po.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img221.imageshack.us/im...o.jpg</A>

MrMGMan
12-17-2005, 10:15 AM
That looks more like a 2nd generation Multipla than a Stilo replacement. While I hope they ditch the current model's rather mundane styling (both exterior and interior) I really do hope they hang on to the Stilo name, as it sounds quite dynamic, it's just a shame that the current 5-door model's looks could never live up to the promise of the name.

Marticos
12-17-2005, 11:49 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>salebg</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><A HREF="http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8322/01004918po.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img221.imageshack.us/im...o.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>In my opinion is a ipotetic all-new Multipla maybe 7 seater a classical van like Zafira or Grand Scenic but the "official" situation is an another restyling of actual Multipla in 2006-2007 for pedestrian crash test.

Supremus
12-19-2005, 05:21 AM
And after the Grande Punto I give you... the Imenso Punto:<p><IMG SRC="http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/7350/stilotematic0aq7hp4nu.jpg" BORDER="0">

DrPetrus
12-25-2005, 01:40 PM
Just saw this picture in the "200? Alfa Romeo Small Coupe"-thread: <p><IMG SRC="http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200512/jeunealfiste_1135363997_cal_2.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Since all the other cars are pretty accurately depicted, even the Lancia Delta 2 is in agreement with spyshots/concepts, I can only assume that the new Stilo 2 is also accurate. If so, I like it a lot. It's a cool 3-door hatch. Reminds me of the Citroen C-Airplay concept, which I also like. <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DrPetrus at 9:46 PM 12/25/2005</i>

Ascariss
12-25-2005, 04:46 PM
Hmm be it accurate or not, something is messed up here.<p>Why does alfa need a baby alfa? The 149 is plenty small enough and alfa shouldn't go down market anymore.<p>The lancia pangea really isn't needed if you ask me. Although the Delta 2 is something I want to see.

Reppu
12-26-2005, 02:08 AM
A little off-topic but, after seeing that, i think the Fulvioa should be a softtop convertible to compete with MX-5, not a coupe.

salebg
12-27-2005, 07:45 AM
<A HREF="http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3411/1234zv.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3411/1234zv.jpg</A>

Ascariss
12-27-2005, 01:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>salebg</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><IMG SRC="http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3411/1234zv.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Suicide doors? The overall style would be a welcome change for the stilo and make it less frumpy than it is today. But somehow those front lights remind me too much of the CityRover. Still a nice sketch, but only a sketch.

drugmirko
12-28-2005, 11:07 AM
Imenso Punto No2 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><A HREF="http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5836/klaar4nr.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img386.imageshack.us/im...r.jpg</A><p>

salebg
12-31-2005, 07:09 AM
<A HREF="http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/361/198actionautomoto8sn.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img514.imageshack.us/im...n.jpg</A>

kuules
12-31-2005, 07:56 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>salebg</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><A HREF="http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/361/198actionautomoto8sn.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img514.imageshack.us/im...n.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Its a chop based o Mazda Sassou Concept:<p><A HREF="http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news/2050830.003/2050830.003.1M.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.japanesecarfans.com...M.jpg</A>

salebg
12-31-2005, 07:58 AM
YES I KNOW

salebg
01-27-2006, 12:56 PM
<A HREF="http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2007894c.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2007894c.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2007894d.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2007894d.jpg</A>

JBlair
01-27-2006, 01:06 PM
Thats an interesting chop of the Astra <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Paul2006
01-27-2006, 02:50 PM
Thats not a bad looking car. It would be quite like the new <I>Punto</I> which is actually very nice in the metal.<p>Although I like the <I>Punto</I>, I would like to see <I>Fiat</I> be a little more daring. I know it could create higher initial risk but the payoffs are potentially more rewarding. Just look at the <I>Renault Megane</I>...

salebg
03-20-2006, 07:40 AM
<A HREF="http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7389/bravo01a8he.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img103.imageshack.us/im...e.jpg</A>

r0b
03-20-2006, 08:25 AM
Wow, really nice. The front looks like Chevrolet Lacetti and the back like the old Leon! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

CosworthKid
03-20-2006, 10:18 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>r0b</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, really nice. The front looks like Chevrolet Lacetti and the back like the old Leon! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I can see the Seat links as well im afraid. Current Stilo was trying to look like a Golf and it failed, so Fiat said next Stilo will be far more Italian and sporty..so they base it on yet another VW group car, the Leon?? I doubt this chop is accurate, it seems to borrow too much from other cars.

Gian86
03-20-2006, 10:40 PM
Would Fiat replacement stilo as Bravo??!!!<br>That's what that magazine said, that will be the rumor for the new stilo and i hope that name is not real for new fiat car. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Lukynix
03-21-2006, 03:24 AM
It's a Lacetti PHS!!!<p>The name Bravo is only for the project, I think.

salebg
05-29-2006, 10:58 AM
<A HREF="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7282/dscn23118uw.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img524.imageshack.us/im...w.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5276/dscn23103ob.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img505.imageshack.us/im...b.jpg</A>

thainogkok
05-29-2006, 11:47 AM
See like every new Fiat's car have design's influence from Maserati.

the1
05-29-2006, 12:04 PM
I hope FIAT won't follow this design direction. The last thing they need right now is a bloated Grande Punto... VeryGrandePunto.

Gian86
05-29-2006, 05:04 PM
It does look like grande punto alot. I think there's Fiat 500 pics included on those pics.

CosworthKid
05-29-2006, 08:31 PM
I think Fiat doesnt realise that making a nice looking cas just isnt enough. The are desperately struggling to stay alive, they need something much more different and powerful to ignite interest. And their reliability issues are killing them. I would still buy an Alfa despite reliability issues( which are improving btw) cause they are just so damn sexy and desirable. If the Stilo looks like this it will be a very nice looking car but its too similar to Punto too be distinct. They would make the same mistake as SEAT, and just keep cloning their cars in different sizes and shapes. Anyway, i still really like the look of this, just dont think it will be the miracle Fiat needs...i HOPE i am mistaken <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

David911
06-06-2006, 01:54 AM
Some new photos of the front design have surfaced. Picture:<br><A HREF="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6271/2276/1600/stlo-1.0.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://photos1.blogger.com/blo...0.jpg</A><p><br>More info and comments:<br><A HREF="http://auto-future.blogspot.com/2006/06/fiat-stilobravo-2007.html" TARGET="_blank">http://auto-future.blogspot.co....html</A><p><br><i>Modified by David911 at 2:22 AM 6/6/2006</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by David911 at 2:22 AM 6/6/2006</i>

CosworthKid
06-06-2006, 10:51 AM
lol, when i saw that i thought "is that a Maserati or a Jaguar?" <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

DSC-OFF
06-13-2006, 01:42 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6060613.002/6060613.002.mini2L.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com" TARGET="_blank">WCF</A><br> <br>

CosworthKid
06-13-2006, 02:00 PM
Yeah right, as if.. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

Tidal
06-15-2006, 02:26 PM
It's been rumored for a long time ( in fact, it's been pretty much confirmed ) that the next gen Stilo/Bravo will only exist as a 5 door model. Sales target is low, at around 120k units/year, so there is no business sense in developing a 3 door. And then there's this:<p><A HREF="http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8956/10offqg4ao.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img153.imageshack.us/im...o.jpg</A><p>a sketch taken from the Ducato truckster sketches, that italiaspeed seems to believe represents the new car. <p>I'm thinking Grande Punto with a Croma grille and Bravo rear lights.<p><br><i>Modified by DeadDave at 11:21 PM 6/15/2006</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DeadDave at 11:22 PM 6/15/2006</i>

CosworthKid
06-15-2006, 03:07 PM
The link doesnt work for me, just takes u to the imageshack site

Reppu
06-15-2006, 10:43 PM
I already noticed this when i saw the sketches of the truckster. I think it could just be the Grande Punto or no actual car at all, just something quickly drawn by the designer.

Sybrain
06-16-2006, 04:19 AM
found on an other forum:<p><br><B>Fiat developed next Stilo in 18 months</B> <p>Virtual engineering gets car to market 5 months faster<p><br>Fiat Auto made a gutsy decision that helped speed up the replacement for the slow-selling Stilo lower-medium model.<p>For the first time in company history, it developed the next-generation car using only virtual engineering -- no physical prototypes.<p>The payoff is that development from design freeze in May 2005 to regular production will take just<p>18 months instead of 23.<p>Full production will start in November in Cassino, central Italy, instead of April 2007, Harald J. Wester, Fiat Auto vice president<p>of engineering and design, told Automotive News Europe.<p>"With virtual engineering, you do all the validation work on computers. You begin building the first physical vehicles on the production line, using the final tooling for every single part," Wester said.<p>If the process had failed, Fiat would have discovered its mistakes only after all the tooling was built and delivered.<p>"It is a calculated risk," he said. "We are engineers, not gamblers."<p>No prototypes<p>In the ordinary development process, automakers design the car on computers but build experimental prototypes to confirm that individual parts and the overall design works before ordering tooling. More prototypes are built for crash testing and durability tests. In total, 60 to 100 prototypes are built.<p>Instead, Fiat is building 20 units in Cassino to verify the manufacturing process. Those units then will be used for crash and durability tests.<p>"These are not prototypes, but true production cars," Wester said.<p>Saves time, not money<p>In a wide-ranging exclusive interview, Wester talked at length about the use of virtual engineering.<p><br>Virtual engineering reduces de-velopment time, but not costs. "What you save by not building experimental prototypes is used for more and better-trained engineers to virtually validate the entire project," he said.<p><br>Virtual engineering works best when developing a car on an existing platform. Other cars exclusively developed using the process -- the Chrysler Crossfire engineered by Karmann, Dacia's Logan by I.DE.A. Institute, and BMW's Z4 coupe by Magna Steyr -- were based on existing platforms.<p><br>Fiat will not rely only on virtual engineering to develop its new Fiat 500, which is derived from the Panda platform. Because the 500's front and rear overhangs will be shorter than the Panda's, Fiat needs some prototypes. Wester's estimate of time to market for the 500 is 20 to 21 months, compared with 23 for the Grande Punto, which, being based on a brand-new platform, required actual prototypes.<p><br>Magna Steyr engineered the body and interior of the Stilo replacement, Fiat Auto did the rest of the engineering in-house.<p>

CosworthKid
06-16-2006, 09:35 AM
I'd think 5 months is not a lot of time if it means properly testing the car in real conditions. I wouldnt rely on just virtual testing for a car that they hope will take on the Focus,Golf and Civic among others. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
06-16-2006, 10:46 AM
Considering how reliable old FIATs were and, especially, the Stilo, not really testing the car before its lauch sounds like a really bad idea.

Blob
06-16-2006, 11:37 AM
not really something you would want to tell everyone about is it.<p>Lets just hope they know what they are doing

the1
06-16-2006, 12:00 PM
At least they let MagnaSteyer engineer the Stilo, so it might not be such a bad thing after all. Good engineering, an attractive price and a masterpiece design from Giugiaro might save Fiat after all. They really need a huge hit in the C-segement.

Tidal
06-16-2006, 01:54 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Considering how reliable old FIATs were and, especially, the Stilo, not really testing the car before its lauch sounds like a really bad idea.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>This doesn't mean the car isn't going to be tested, it just means that the cars that are tested are very very close to the actual cars that will hit showrooms. Like it says on the article, it's a gamble, but it's not like this car is introducing any new technologies, that haven't extensively been tested on the G. Punto, for example. <br>

the1
06-16-2006, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I know. But it's a new FIAT, it would have sounded so much better if they would have said 'we tested it for 5 years and 5m km'. If Toyota would lauch a new model and say they did only a few tests, right before the production started, I would be more confident in the result.

CosworthKid
06-16-2006, 02:26 PM
<B>For the first time in company history, it developed the next-generation car using only virtual engineering -- no physical prototypes.</B><p>It clearly says its the first time in the companys history and its 100% virtual testing. Big risk i reckon and doesnt help built people's confidence on the brands cars

Tidal
06-16-2006, 02:46 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sybrain</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Instead, Fiat is building 20 units in Cassino to verify the manufacturing process. <B>Those units then will be used for crash and durability tests...</B><p>Virtual engineering works best when developing a car on an existing platform... <p>Magna Steyr engineered the body and interior of the Stilo replacement, Fiat Auto did the rest of the engineering in-house.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Basis is the old Stilo platform, engines and all other components will be shared with the Punto, with the exception of the new 1.4l turbo, and that's being tested extensively. Or at least i hope it is.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, I know. But it's a new FIAT, it would have sounded so much better if they would have said 'we tested it for 5 years and 5m km'. If Toyota would lauch a new model and say they did only a few tests, right before the production started, I would be more confident in the result.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sure, but it might just work, and fiat really cant afford a failure. I'm confident they can pull it off, and also don't forget Magna are really putting their name out for this car. They have a pretty high profile in the industry right now, they wouldn't come off brilliantly if the car was crap either ( even if they weren't directly responsible for the crapiness ).

the1
06-16-2006, 03:09 PM
That's exactly what I said a few posts before. <p> <I>At least they let MagnaSteyer engineer the Stilo, so it might not be such a bad thing after all.</I>

the1
06-17-2006, 03:07 PM
Fiat: Marchionne, a Gennaio a Roma Presenteremo La Bravo<p>(ASCA) - Val d'Erice (Trapani), 14 giu - ''L'obiettivo e' mantenere i volumi di vendita fino a gennaio prossimo quando presenteremo la nuova Bravo a Roma. Sostituira' la Stilo''. Lo ha annunciato Sergio Marchionne, amministratore delegato della Fiat (Milano: F.MI - notizie) , a sorpresa a Val d'Erice (Trapani) a margine della presentazione della nuova Alfa Spider. L'Ad di Fiat si pone come obiettivo di stabilizzare il reparto auto al 30% in Italia nel 2006, in attesa anche della nuova Cinquecento e di consolidare e superare l'8% nel mercato europeo. <p><A HREF="http://it.biz.yahoo.com/14062006/26/fiat-marchionne-gennaio-roma-presenteremo-bravo.html" TARGET="_blank">http://it.biz.yahoo.com/140620....html</A>

CosworthKid
06-17-2006, 05:28 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fiat: Marchionne, a Gennaio a Roma Presenteremo La Bravo<p>(ASCA) - Val d'Erice (Trapani), 14 giu - ''L'obiettivo e' mantenere i volumi di vendita fino a gennaio prossimo quando presenteremo la nuova Bravo a Roma. Sostituira' la Stilo''. Lo ha annunciato Sergio Marchionne, amministratore delegato della Fiat (Milano: F.MI - notizie) , a sorpresa a Val d'Erice (Trapani) a margine della presentazione della nuova Alfa Spider. L'Ad di Fiat si pone come obiettivo di stabilizzare il reparto auto al 30% in Italia nel 2006, in attesa anche della nuova Cinquecento e di consolidare e superare l'8% nel mercato europeo. <p><A HREF="http://it.biz.yahoo.com/14062006/26/fiat-marchionne-gennaio-roma-presenteremo-bravo.html" TARGET="_blank">http://it.biz.yahoo.com/140620....html</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
06-18-2006, 05:23 AM
The article says the new Bravo will be unveiled in Rome, in January 2007.

Mr. Fusion
06-18-2006, 05:28 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The article says the new Bravo will be unveiled in Rome, in January 2007.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Bravo? That got replaced by the Stilo in 2000 and I'm sure the next Stilo will be a 2007 model along side the 2007 Lancia Delta

CosworthKid
06-18-2006, 07:30 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Mr. Fusion</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Bravo? That got replaced by the Stilo in 2000 and I'm sure the next Stilo will be a 2007 model along side the 2007 Lancia Delta</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Stilo name could be replaced by the Bravo name again. I hope Fiat sticks to one freakin name cause this is not doing their cars any favours. They need to built a momento with their car like they did with Punto, not keep changing the names. That is like admiting to people "yeah, we messed up, our cars where not good so we go for a different name".

the1
06-18-2006, 03:11 PM
Considering how unsuccesful the Stilo was, they had to find another name.

Reppu
06-18-2006, 11:09 PM
I would go back to the 'Tipo' name. I liked it a lot, besides it was quite succesful.

Gian86
06-19-2006, 04:49 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Gian86</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would Fiat replacement stilo as Bravo??!!!<br>That's what that magazine said, that will be the rumor for the new stilo and i hope that name is not real for new fiat car. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, it is true then. And it's returned in new form as well. Looking forward to it. <p>

CosworthKid
06-19-2006, 07:53 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go back to the 'Tipo' name. I liked it a lot, besides it was quite succesful.</TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
06-19-2006, 02:22 PM
Why not Ritmo?

the1
06-19-2006, 02:38 PM
The replacement for the poor-selling Fiat Stilo will be launched five months earlier than planned, thanks to a fully computerised development process.<p>Production of the new car was due to start next April, but will now begin in November. The Stilo’s computerised development means that no prototypes were built, making this the first entirely virtually engineered Fiat. Normally up to 100 prototypes are built. Development of the car is being undertaken by Austrian company Magna Steyr – the first time Fiat has used a firm outside Italy for this kind of work.<p>A replacement for the current Stilo cannot come soon enough for Fiat. ‘Today’s Stilo is underdone, the design wasn’t finished and it simply looks half-baked,’ said design boss Frank Stephenson. Customers agreed: last year just over 72,000 Stilos were built, compared with 450,000 VW Golfs and over half a million Ford Focuses.<p><br>WOW! Just 72,000 Stilos were made last year? It's a huge flop.

CosworthKid
06-19-2006, 05:33 PM
When the competition is excellent : Ford Focus, VW Golf, Skoda Oktavia, Citroen C4, Opel Astra, etc plus steady favourites such as the Toyota Corolla then its no suprise Stilo made no impact. 5-door had bland and ugly design(despite 3-door looking great),poor residuals, average in every other area plus Fiat reliability...a non-sense choice by all means. Thats why Fiat needs to inject next Stilo with some MAJOR styling, like they did with Punto but not just clone that car and make it bigger (a-la SEAT). People will still consider buying a larger Fiat hatch if and only it had gobsmacking Italian design inside and out. So yeah, come to think of it a name change into either "Bravo" or "Tipo" would be a great idea, especially the Tipo which was a completely original looking car and made some genuine advances in its area, hence the COTY award.

the1
06-20-2006, 05:53 AM
And Tipo was more successful than the Bravo, pretty much a flop, too.

Reppu
06-20-2006, 08:01 AM
Yup, it was with the Bravo that things started to go al wrong for Fiat

Tidal
06-20-2006, 08:26 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup, it was with the Bravo that things started to go al wrong for Fiat</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, one could argue that Fiat never quite made it in this segment. Even though the Tipo had some success, it wasn't exactly a best seller, and the Ritmo was appalling. I think they chose the Bravo name because although ( again ) it wasn't that successfull, in peoples minds it still has a certain Italian flair, it's stylish, it handles pretty well ( better than the Stilo ). Imo it's a good move.

the1
06-20-2006, 01:38 PM
Any new name is better than reminding people of how awful the old Stilo was.

CosworthKid
06-20-2006, 04:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any new name is better than reminding people of how awful the old Stilo was. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Average and unispired yet, but in no way it was awful mate.

mick78
06-22-2006, 01:14 AM
Agree, at least ways better than its image - actually most people are suprised if they once drive one.<p>And though the name Bravo might sound better than Stilo, it relly lacks any kind of conitnuity - not a smart move in my eyes (if they don´t want to keep the Stilo name, fine - but come up with sthg, new..)

the1
06-22-2006, 02:17 AM
Surprised? In a negative way, maybe... I drove a few and it's awful. Its suspenssion setup is too soft, the steering lacks feel and the interior seems made from plastic materials recicled from toys. The diesel engines and gearboxes were excellent, though. I really hope that the new Bravo will be a mix of gorgeous Italian design, great engines and, finally, a good chassis. If the price will be attractive, too, Fiat could have a winner.

the1
07-12-2006, 03:15 PM
<A HREF="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2535/11eg4.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2535/11eg4.jpg</A><p>autoinsight.it

SV
07-12-2006, 05:17 PM
nice find, though you'd think they took the picture that blurry on purpose <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> which means it could be a hoax, though something tells me it's not. at any rate, there's not much to discern; IMO it looks a bit mid-90s hyundai tiburon crossed with the new punto (the hyundai vibe is probably just because of the pic's distortion, though...)

JBlair
07-12-2006, 05:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nice find, though you'd think they took the picture that blurry on purpose <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> which means it could be a hoax, though something tells me it's not. at any rate, there's not much to discern; IMO it looks a bit mid-90s hyundai tiburon crossed with the new punto (the hyundai vibe is probably just because of the pic's distortion, though...)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It looks like it was taken with a camera phone, which means that whoever took it did so in a hurry, which explains the blurriness.

grande punto
07-12-2006, 06:52 PM
anyone know if it will be sold in australia

Gian86
07-12-2006, 09:13 PM
Yes, it will be. Same to new 500 and Panda. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>However, nice find the1 about posibilly real Bravo/Stilo pic. Looks alright so far. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Gian86 at 6:07 PM 7/13/2006</i>

grande punto
07-13-2006, 12:04 AM
will the croma be sold here??

Gian86
07-13-2006, 12:08 AM
I think no for now, Ateco wants it but i think it's too expensive to bring it here for now.

grande punto
07-13-2006, 12:40 AM
damn i like the croma

grande punto
07-13-2006, 12:55 AM
sorry about the anoying questions but will we see the barcetta,ulysse or the idea in oz

the1
07-13-2006, 02:16 AM
I guess all we can say right now are assumptions. We can't exactly now what strategy Fiat will have and what models will sell in Australia.<p>About the pic, yes, it does seem to look a bit like a bloated GrandePunto, crossed with an Alfa 147 and the old Bravo. It doesn't seem to be anything revolutionary.

grande punto
07-13-2006, 02:34 AM
yeri agree with u

grande punto
07-13-2006, 02:59 AM
two new pics<p><A HREF="http://imageshack.us" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4623/untitled5jr18zj.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><br><A HREF="http://imageshack.us" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2765/img14815tr2vm1us.jpg" BORDER="0"></A>

the1
07-13-2006, 03:10 AM
Those are some old chops based on the Grande Punto.

grande punto
07-13-2006, 03:14 AM
damn sorry about that

CosworthKid
07-28-2006, 08:11 AM
<A HREF="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/201962/surprise_tieup_for_stilo.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/n....html</A>

the1
07-28-2006, 02:01 PM
First Fiat made by Kia... nice. Next step, Fiat will be bought by Hyundai-KIA.

against the wall
07-28-2006, 03:41 PM
naa that wont happen, its probably just an alliance. fiat is a parent company. they would have to be sold for tons and tons of money.

mick78
07-28-2006, 04:02 PM
As far as i´ve read it uses a revised platform of the old one - and as far as Auto Express is the only source for the rumour about the KIA Chassis, i wouldn´t give too much about it....

CosworthKid
07-28-2006, 05:13 PM
To be honest i hope they are wrong as well. If it was with Hyundai id say sure, why not but KIA? KIA cars are still not as proven as other Korean vehicles and in crash tests they result very poorly compared to competition as well. I dont understand why Fiat would make an alliance with a company that hasnt proven itself yet in this category. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
07-29-2006, 01:54 AM
KIA now shares platform with Hyundai, as it a part of the same company, so there are no differences between KIA and Hyundai now.

Tidal
07-29-2006, 08:06 AM
FIAT has stated before that they would be willing to share all their platforms and technologies with other companies ( forming alliances with them ), so it's just al likely that the Bravo will be a Kia as it is that the ED will be a FIAT. <p>Imho, it's not likely at all, at least for this generation. Both cars are already finished, and everything i've read said the ED shares basis with the new Elantra and the Bravo is Stilo based, although with a highly modified platform.<p>And like mick78 said, this is AutoExpress. Not really a reliable news source.

the1
07-29-2006, 02:11 PM
Right. And all the rumours said the Bravo will actually be based on a heavily modified platform from the current Alfa 147 or the current Stilo, the same platform on which several other models, like the new Alfa 149 or Lancia Delta, will be based on.

the1
07-30-2006, 10:59 AM
This Cherry concept would have looked great as the new Bravo 3door. It seems to be designed by Giugiaro or Pinifarina. <br><A HREF="http://220.181.29.123/boardfile/cose/200631/20060730084900.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://220.181.29.123/boardfil...0.jpg</A>

the1
08-01-2006, 02:52 PM
Considering how production ready it looks, this could be the real deal. And I think it's gorgeous.<p><IMG SRC="http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/348/immagine1kv6ajpgol7.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1037/immagine2xp9acq8.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Bigger pics:<br><A HREF="http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=immagine2xp9.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img452.imageshack.us/my...9.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=immagine1kv6.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img385.imageshack.us/my...6.jpg</A><p>autoscoops.be<br>

CosworthKid
08-01-2006, 02:57 PM
Indeed, this is just perfect! Where did you find these pics?? Awesome looking car and, happy to say, very Italian and sexy <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>ps: this looks Alfa 147 based, even door handles look as if lisfted from that car..so if this is the real deal then it probably means new Stilo will indeed be based on a modified 147 chassis

the1
08-01-2006, 02:59 PM
They're obviously made by Giugiaro himself. :D Just kidding. I don't know where they came from, they were posted on autoscoops.be, as I stated.

CosworthKid
08-01-2006, 03:00 PM
Hehe..another thing i like is that the rear end does indeed echo the old Bravo, which also probably means it will indeed be called Bravo

CosworthKid
08-01-2006, 03:02 PM
Oh and notice the head lamps: Punto headlamps remind of Maserati, but these kinda look like the ones on the new XK, look at the detailing, just slimmer <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
08-01-2006, 03:07 PM
The entire car looks fresh and it's simply beautiful. It isn't revolutionary, but even if it does have elements from GrandePunto, Alfa 147 and maybe Jag XK head lights, it's still sexy and a lot cooler than the current Stilo. Good job, Fiat! Or should I say, Mr. Giugiaro.

Smart22186
08-01-2006, 04:08 PM
very nice i see alot of seat leon in the back shape thoe any one else?

mick78
08-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Very nice, could just be what fiat needs.I don't think it looks anything like a Seat Leon, Seat look all the same and like no other car (thank god <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">)<p>Anyway, that proves to me that it seem s to ise an updated version of the current platform (wheels have 4 bolts whilst Alfa Romeo uses 5 Bolts on the 147) - plus the Alfa 147 platform is rather old now (and performed sadly in the Euro NCAP), but probably it could get the more sophisticated Alfa rear suspension - although i don´t think so, considering that the Stilo is rather in the low price range of it's class, and i don't think customers would be willing to pay much more for a new model - the brand name is still not there (but the new models like Panda and Grande PUnto at least sell without massive discounts and are developing kind of "cool" image)

CosworthKid
08-01-2006, 04:44 PM
Fiat got the looks right this time. Problem is, reliability and poor residuals will still hurt this car massively. But if its built quality improves as much as its looks, comes with enough free kit, is priced right and manages to have enough grunt under its bonnet then they sure will have a fighting chance after all these years..something on which they could built on for the next generation. Im worried about the chassis though..if its on a modified platform of the current Stilo that doesnt say much. It has to be great to drive and handle. Fiat surely MUST make this car work and not only rest on its looks alone

SV
08-01-2006, 07:01 PM
styling looks massively better, though it took/will take a little while for the headlamps to grow on me. otherwise, very very nice; it keeps family ties to the punto yet still has some unique identity. fiat could be on to something with this..<p>p.s. btw, is it just me or do the DLO treatments look slightly different on both sides? on the front 3/4, the DLO seems to be chrome-trimmed on the bottom, while there's no chrome surround for the DLO of the side-on view. i know sometimes on clay mockups they do two different halves to see which side looks better, but besides the DLO everything else looks exactly the same...strange...

Vltava
08-01-2006, 10:48 PM
Looks like a fibreglass styling mock-up. But once Giorgietto hit on this one, he'd nailed it. Love the nose and the convex backlight. Bravo, indeed, Signore.

David911
08-02-2006, 01:46 AM
Don't quite like the front. This is clearly a mock-up used for internal presentations. What a scoop!<br>I'm not sure on when it will arrive. I have heard about the presentation in september (Paris). But lately some rumors suggested that Fiat was looking for a partner for platform development...

Gian86
08-02-2006, 02:13 AM
The rear does look like hatchback version of Brera. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> Another job well done from the designer of Grande Punto and of course Brera too.

the1
08-02-2006, 02:54 AM
I think they'll stick with either a redone version of the current Stilo platform or with the Alfa 147 platform. The rumours that suggested Fiat would use KIA ED's platform are not too trust worthy, the new Bravo is almost ready and its launch is too close for a platform change.

thainogkok
08-02-2006, 03:20 AM
well done. I like it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Gunfire
08-02-2006, 10:40 AM
I may be very wrong, but these pics may well be chops. There is too much of the current Alfa 147, especially in the upper part of the car, and towards the back... The handles, especially the back door one, is completely misplaced. Moreover, the front is plainly WEIRD, the front grille seems to have a weird angle...and much, much more!<p>if it's a chop (which I think it is), it's extremely well done, tho - Bravissimo to the artist!

the1
08-02-2006, 02:34 PM
It's not a chop.

CosworthKid
08-02-2006, 03:13 PM
Yeah, not a shop. Most probably a clay model. Its normal to have 147 cues since it probably uses a modified 147 shell as well, or panels. Side and rear look very similar to 147, i think its normal since Fiat would obviously need to do some cost cutting. If they save some money by using Alfa shell and modified chassis, and use their own money to make to develop the driving dynamics and built quality then it seems very reasonable. Besides it has enough character of its own like this to make it stand out.

Reppu
08-03-2006, 01:23 AM
I think Fiat has a very good design in their hands, except for the front. The grille seems to small and the lower bumper just doesn't work for me. All in all it is a very good looking car, but that's not the point with a Fiat. Success, once again, will depend on it's build quality.

Mr. Fusion
08-03-2006, 01:51 AM
I've heard about the 2008 Fiat Multipla using the 2007 Fiat Stilo platform. <p>Back on topic, I would choose this over the Astra, golf and Focus and maybe the ED.

the1
08-03-2006, 02:27 AM
Yeah, but would you choose it if it will have the same bad reliability record and a price similar to those of its competitors?

Mr. Fusion
08-03-2006, 02:39 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, but would you choose it if it will have the same bad reliability record and a price similar to those of its competitors?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No. The Stilo will have a heck of alot of competitors:<p>Alfa Romeo 147<br>Audi A3<br>BMW 1 Series<br>Citroen C4<br>Chevrolet Lacetti<br>Dodge Caliber<br>Ford Focus (Main Competitor)<br>Honda Civic<br>Kia ED<br>Nissan Almera/Versa<br>Peugeot 307/308<br>Renault Megane<br>Skoda Octavia<br>Volkswagen Golf (Main Competitor)<br>Vauhall/Opel Astra (Main Competitor)

the1
08-03-2006, 02:52 AM
Alfa 147, Audi A3, BMW 1Series are in a different price league, as they are premium compacts.

mick78
08-03-2006, 03:50 AM
To a certain extent, also the Golf is rather premium, the Octavia competes more woith the Croma (size and prize wise), and probably the japanese competition is also targeted at another group (looking for reliability).<p>So i´d see traditionally the french (Citroen,Peugeot and the Megan) plus the Astra/FOcua as the competition for the Stilo/Bravo/(?).<p>But even these are not easy.

the1
08-03-2006, 06:58 AM
They'd better get the reliability and the dyinamics right this time.

CosworthKid
08-03-2006, 09:44 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Mr. Fusion</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>No. The Stilo will have a heck of alot of competitors:<p>Alfa Romeo 147<br>Audi A3<br>BMW 1 Series<br>Citroen C4<br>Chevrolet Lacetti<br>Dodge Caliber<br>Ford Focus (Main Competitor)<br>Honda Civic<br>Kia ED<br>Nissan Almera/Versa<br>Peugeot 307/308<br>Renault Megane<br>Skoda Octavia<br>Volkswagen Golf (Main Competitor)<br>Vauhall/Opel Astra (Main Competitor)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Id say its main competitor would be the car u left behind, the SEAT Leon. Fiat will not have expectations to compete head to head with the Focus or Golf, so it will probably position itself between the Leon and Octavia at first IMO

Tidal
08-03-2006, 12:05 PM
Other than the crease that runs trough the side of the car, i see no 147 on it at all. It's a good design imo. It is reminiscent of the Punto, without being a Grande Grande Punto. Pretty, stylish and elegant.<p>As for the competition, i'd agree with CosworthKid, the Leon will be it's main competition, after all, it's the only other " latin " car in the segment, and maybe i'd throw in the Mazda3 as well.<p>Btw, engine line up is rumored to be:<p>1.4l starjet with 95, 120 and 150hp ( the last 2 are turbos )<br>1.6l starjet turbo with 200hp<br>1.6l mjtd with 105 and 120hp<br>1.9l mjtd with 150hp<p>Most are new, let's hope they prove to be reliable.<br>

CosworthKid
08-03-2006, 12:39 PM
Glad u agree with me mate but i will have to disagree about the 147 comment. Side of the car and rear look very much like the Alfa's i reckon <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmileo.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
08-03-2006, 01:26 PM
Looks like, but it's not entirely similar.

Ace of Spades
08-03-2006, 01:38 PM
Well Fiat were navigating in an ocean of dullness for years and now they've realised that they're gonna need more "passion". They've achieved it with the Grande Punto (not exactly with the Croma), and they're gonna keep trying, and if they can inspire themselves with what their cousins are doing, it's welcomed if the result is good. I think it's more balanced a compact reflecting the design of another (very nice) compact that a small car trying to reflect the wildness of a sport GT (Grande Punto), besides the fact that it does it so well. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bow.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
08-03-2006, 02:14 PM
If the 5door will turn out to be this sexy, I wonder how agressive and cool the 3door Bravo will be.

mick78
08-03-2006, 04:27 PM
As far as Fiat has stated in it's product plan, there won't be a 3 door Bravo, probably too close to the Grande Punto or the rumored smaller than 147 Alfa. It seems that they sold more 5doors than 3 doors of the current one, probably because Fiat has a "family" image. (at least here in Austria or in Italy, at least 80 - 90 % semm to be 5 doors)<p>But maybe they'll do it like they did with the Tipo, where the 3 door simply came later, to keep the line attractive.<p>But so far, just one Body style planned.

CosworthKid
08-03-2006, 04:48 PM
Hmmm...current Stilo ONLY looked good in its 3-door guise. 5-door is so dull and ugly and the estate is more of that. But in any event im sure an estate version will follow and, if initial responses are good, a 3-door shorty after. Also Fiat should seriously consider making a sexy CC version as well. That would definately give it more cred here in Europe

Sybrain
08-03-2006, 11:18 PM
There wont be an estate version of the new bravo because it would be to close to the croma.

mick78
08-04-2006, 02:07 AM
Yep, no estate, no 3 door in the product plan. Why? Only Fiat knows....

the1
08-04-2006, 02:33 AM
I hope they will launch the 3door. They need a sexier alternative to the 5door. Opel/Vauxhall did it with the Astra and they can't complain the gorgeous GTC coupe is not selling well. The current 3door Stilo was a beauty, indeed, the 5door was horrible.

Max Power
08-11-2006, 11:51 AM
Nice looking car.

the1
08-11-2006, 12:21 PM
I hope we'll see it faster... maybe in Paris?

mick78
08-11-2006, 03:48 PM
Paris should have a concept car based on the real product (like they had with the Panda), the final version should be in Geneva 2007 as far as i know.

the1
08-11-2006, 04:16 PM
I see... a concept is better than nothing.

hakkinen
08-17-2006, 05:14 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.moj-album.com/slike/2834174/7Ouvx0BBpVlMzIPW.v.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.moj-album.com/slike/2834174/VKACk_g0mFo4vn7F.v.jpg" BORDER="0">

CosworthKid
08-17-2006, 05:56 PM
Cool, seems pretty much like the one spotted in previews posts (clay model?). This is MUCH better than current Stilo, absolutely no comparison. I hope Fiat manages to sell this though. SEAT Leon is great looking and looking at this they will go head to head since they are the closest styling wise (both sporty). Yet Leon still hasnt managed to ignite sales by the looks of it. Could Fiat pull it off? I hope so! Bring on the Abarth plz <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>ps: notice how the headlamps on the second pic look more rounded at the sides, like a Grande Punto, while the head on pic shows a more slim and curvy set (a la Jaguar XK). I guess its normal since this is probably just a chop. I also hope the rear lights are a bit different. They are nice but kinda remind of my dads old SEAT Ibiza

Reppu
08-17-2006, 10:31 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also hope the rear lights are a bit different. They are nice but kinda remind of my dads old SEAT Ibiza</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree word by word, they have a strong resemblance to old Ibiza.

Gian86
08-17-2006, 11:34 PM
I think those pics could look like Bravo but i think some parts like fog lamps, rear headlights might not look like that. Well see soon. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

the1
08-18-2006, 01:33 AM
This looks like a chop based on the clay model we saw. Close, but I still think the clay model is the actual Bravo.<br>

mick78
08-18-2006, 01:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This looks like a chop based on the clay model we saw. Close, but I still think the clay model is the actual Bravo.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>If you look at the interior, it is obvious that it's a chop based on the Grande Punto. I agree, the clay model should be the real bravo. Also the clay models details fit those spypics of parts (like the fender) that apeared earlier...

the1
08-18-2006, 01:43 AM
Exactly. Plus that a clay model is more credible than some cgis. So, will we see the new Bravo in Paris?

mick78
08-18-2006, 01:53 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exactly. Plus that a clay model is more credible than some cgis. So, will we see the new Bravo in Paris?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Concept or real, sthg. should be there according to some officials

mick78
08-18-2006, 04:09 AM
From Italiaspeed.com:<p>"The new Bravo - states the presentation - will feature "Italian design: sportiness with pure C-segment dimensions". Quality will see "new targets of excellence" being set, along with "carefully designed interiors" and "customisation" will also be a cornerstone. It will be a "spacious and comfortable five-seater" with "generous boot space". While achieving a Euro Ncap 5-star rating will be the safety priority, the engine line up is confirmed to be led out by a new 1.4-petrol turbo (with 120 and 150 bhp) and a new 1.6-litre Multijet diesel, both units which are currently being developed by Fiat Powertrain Technologies."<p><br>Source: <A HREF="http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/fiat/08/union_presentation/1808.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiaspeed.com/200....html</A><p>So now the name seems officially confirmed and it seems to get new engines.

CosworthKid
08-18-2006, 08:28 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mick78</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>So now the name seems officially confirmed and it seems to get new engines. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Good news. Stilo R.I.P.

LSS_C6
08-19-2006, 08:57 AM
Hope it looks as sexy as the new GPunto!

drugmirko
08-29-2006, 10:47 AM
a fiew impresions:<p><A HREF="http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4175/bravo1vf0.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img177.imageshack.us/im...0.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6712/bravo2sw3.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img177.imageshack.us/im...3.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3529/bravovi1.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img151.imageshack.us/im...1.jpg</A>

CosworthKid
08-29-2006, 11:53 AM
We already saw what appeared to be a clay model so... The second one looks the more convincing to me, but check the profile! XK Jaguar all over the front side, hehe. Last illustration is horrible, reminds me o current Stilo 5-door <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0">

toby
08-30-2006, 12:27 AM
yeah that last pic is a blatant chop of the GP, thankfully the Bravo won't look like that!

the1
09-18-2006, 03:14 PM
A sedan chop. Quite sleek.<p><A HREF="http://static.blogo.it/autoblog/fiat_bravo_tre_volumi_chop.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://static.blogo.it/autoblo...p.jpg</A>

mick78
09-19-2006, 01:49 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A sedan chop. Quite sleek.<p><A HREF="http://static.blogo.it/autoblog/fiat_bravo_tre_volumi_chop.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://static.blogo.it/autoblo...p.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Any indicators that there will be a sedan version? I do think it would make sense for southern markets especially (and probably eastern europe), as those love sedans. So given that this car could look quite sleek, it would sell most likely, given the absence of Toledo, no more Hyundai Lantra & (probably Kia Cerato Sedan after C'eed comes), leaving the field to the Octavia alone at the moment.

the1
09-19-2006, 02:52 AM
And Focus 2 sedan, VW Jetta and Renault Megane sedan.

mick78
09-19-2006, 04:10 AM
Ok, though VW sees the Jetta more premium. And it is more expensive than the rest, by quite a bit.

the1
09-19-2006, 05:10 AM
Indeed, the Jetta costs almost as much as a Passat and it's not that brilliant to deserve so much money.<p>

the1
10-05-2006, 07:01 AM
<A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.1L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.mini2L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.mini3L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A>

mick78
10-05-2006, 07:27 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.1L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.mini2L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos/6061005.001/6061005.001.mini3L.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.worldcarfans.com/sp...L.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'd say that's the car that we've seen earlier as clay mockup. Looks identical.

Roadster44
10-05-2006, 01:21 PM
Fiat "No" Stilo

the1
10-05-2006, 01:49 PM
It's identical to the clay car, indeed. And not bad! Not bad at all. I'm curious about the interior.

dracomoda_0
10-05-2006, 03:35 PM
Yes it's the same! This is a chop that looks like the final version will be.<p><A HREF="http://www.infomotori.com/foto/N/art_17467_2_01.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.infomotori.com/foto...1.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://www.infomotori.com/foto/N/art_17467_2_020.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.infomotori.com/foto...0.jpg</A><br>

mick78
10-05-2006, 03:54 PM
BTW. just a note - Threadname could be changed to "Bravo", as it is already officially confirmed. And i guess it will not be 2006 anymore, so 2007 would be more correct....<p>Interior should be nice considering the recent development of the whole Fiat group, though i guess it will have to stay below Alfa 147/149 and upcoming Delta HPE. I'd guess soft instrument panel (like in current one - as contrast to Grande Punto), the Rest pretty much Grandde Punto quality wise. Stylewise as well, guessing the similarities outside, probably one or two "upmarket" treatments like chrome somewhere, as the back also borrows from Alfa Brera, so why not inside?

piokor
10-05-2006, 04:53 PM
Anyone know why they are going back to the Bravo name?

the1
10-05-2006, 05:20 PM
Because the Stilo was one of the biggest flops in FIAT's history and they don't want to remember that they ever launched that model.

MrMGMan
10-06-2006, 09:00 AM
As said above, the Stilo was a commercial and critical disaster for Fiat, never selling anywhere near as strongly as the Bravo/Brava twins did before it, and failing miserably to enthuse the general automotive press.<p>They needed to sell 400,000 Stilo's a year worldwide for 5 years to justify their investment in the car, and as far as I know, it never even attained 50% of those sales targets, even in it's best year.<p>Keeping the Stilo name would be very much like British Leyland/Austin Rover continuing with the Allegro name after it proved itself to be a massive marketing flop, so it makes sense for them to revive a name that was associated with a successful car.<br>

mick78
10-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Actually it is true that Stilo didn't prove to be successfull, but neither was Bravo/Brava - and they chose the Stilo name 5 years ago with the exactly same explanaition that they wan't to forget the "flop" etc. like now again. So i don't get why Bravo agian?<p>Apart from that, since Fiat 128 no car above Super Mini class was sellimng well for Fiat, Ritmo/Strada and Tipo all started well, but lost dramatically due to quality problems, Bravo/Brava as well as Stilo at least sold somehow at a not satisfying level all the time, no dramatic changes. <p>Then again, Punto Mk. II was not a success as well and still they kept the name, so i don't really see a strategy behind Fiats nameing system...

MrMGMan
10-07-2006, 09:52 AM
It's true that the Bravo/Brava twins didn't exactly set the sales charts alight, but they were nothing like as big a marketing or commercial flop as the Stilo turned out to be, mainly because the initial investment in the cars was much lower, due to them retaining the vast majority of the Tipo's chassis, while the Stilo was a new design from the wheels up.<p>Fiat are obviously hedging their bets this time, a new name and a mechanical package largely borrowed and adapted from the current Stilo. Keeping the investment down means less damage for them should the new Bravo suffer a similar fate as its predecessor on the forecourt - i.e. not selling very well.

the1
10-07-2006, 04:50 PM
Bravo or no Bravo, the new model should be a lot better than the current Stilo... if it wants to be successful.

the1
10-14-2006, 09:28 AM
Almost undisguised.<p><A HREF="http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3272/copiadi13102006002yq1.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img527.imageshack.us/im...1.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://images3.fotosik.pl/202/20d7661cf79ae337.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://images3.fotosik.pl/202/20d7661cf79ae337.jpg</A><p>So, it's identical to the original clay model we saw a few months ago. Gorgeous. :)<p><A HREF="http://i9.tinypic.com/2ldiyhg.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://i9.tinypic.com/2ldiyhg.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://i9.tinypic.com/2wqgx6r.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://i9.tinypic.com/2wqgx6r.jpg</A>

mick78
10-14-2006, 11:42 AM
Gorgeous - i see a little Brera in the back. <p>I'm afraid, i'll have to trade my current Stilo in for that (though, probably not typical for the brand, i'm not having troubles). But that looks so much better...

the1
10-14-2006, 04:25 PM
Trade it, trade it. The new Bravo will definately be a lot better than the Stilo. And the design is simply amazing compared to its ancestor.

CosworthKid
10-14-2006, 06:28 PM
Let's hope the interior is of high quality and good design to match the exterior<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by CosworthKid at 1:17 AM 10/16/2006</i>

the1
10-15-2006, 06:07 AM
I'm not sure how succesful this new Bravo will be. It should be a huge hit if Fiat wants to return to profit, but there are still a few question marks. The design is extremely exciting, so job well done on this account. The new engines (1.4 turbo with 120 and 150hp and the new 1.6 jtd 120 and 150hp) sound really exciting, at least on paper. Another important aspect is its price. The Grande Punto is not cheap compared to its rivals from the B segment, so it's safe to assume that the Bravo won't be too cheap either, compared to its competitors, though it should have a reasonable price, if Fiat wants to have a winner in their hands. I hope that the new Bravo won't just rely on its gorgeous Giugiaro design and its excellent engines. It should have a sporty chassis and an independent rear suspension, a spacious and well finished interior (as you said Cosworthkid) and most significantly a much better realibility record than its now dead and burried ancestor.

dracomoda_0
10-16-2006, 09:15 AM
We have to consider that GrandePunto is "Grande" not only in its price, but also in dimensions. So I think that, while the Punto is an UpperB segment, Bravo stills C segment, in its dimensions and in its price. Quite cheap I think, like an Astra

CosworthKid
10-16-2006, 10:53 AM
Plus the Lancia Delta is right around the corner and will be re-introduced( whole brand) in the UK and right-hand markets again in 1-2 years time. So FIAT needs to price the Bravo below the Delta. Besides, they stand no chance in hell in succeeding if its more expensive than a Focus.

the1
10-16-2006, 03:12 PM
Not more expensive than a Focus, but priced at the same level. I think it should be a little cheaper to compensate the lack of image.

CosworthKid
10-16-2006, 04:50 PM
It must be cheaper. Look at Ford : despite the Focus being the best seller in Europe and the ST being best in class and, for many, the top hot hatch on their list, they still sell their cars at very reasonable prices, many times even cheaper than less-selling competitors. The ST costs less than a GTI and an Astra VXR, the forthcoming Focus CC will be much cheaper than an Eos and cheaper than the Astra TwinTop, despite having more equipment and better quality materials (not to mention class leading ride). My point is Fiat HAS to pitch the Stilo at a lower price than most of its competitors. Great looks will still mean nothing to major Euro markets such as the UK if the "reliability problem" of the brand doesnt go away fast. If this Stilo manages to fixes that problem them maybe the next generation or two can increase its price (even though why would they?). But for this one they need great looks, great quailty, great price AND be great to drive. Too many boxes need to be ticked and so far only one is there...3 more to go and those are just as important, if not more. Fiat can make a strong case with small cars, such as the new 500, but anything above Punto category they need to be as good as it gets to stay alive nowadays. Civic looks good, C4 looks good, next 149 and Delta look good, Focus and Astra look good...u get the point. Looks alone wont cut it

mick78
10-17-2006, 12:49 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fiat can make a strong case with small cars, such as the new 500, but anything above Punto category they need to be as good as it gets to stay alive nowadays. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's the point: I remeber, and still have the magazines at home, when the Stilo arrived in 2001/2002, everyone was writing like oh yes, now they made everything right, good car, avoiding mistakes from previous generation - yet as it didn't sell up to expectations, everyone suddenly knew the reasons why. Basically, like all "above B-segment" Fiats, it lacked the brand image for serious competition.<p>And i think how good the Bravo might ever get, hard to imagine it will really sell. My guess is pricing it slightly above Korean cars (Kia C'eed, Chevy Lacetti), but below european competition. Anyway, whatever the pricing is, you'll get massive discounts at the dealer (my Stilo was cheaper than a Skoda Fabia in the end...).

Reppu
10-17-2006, 02:25 AM
The Stilo 3dr has sold quite good here in Spain. The 5dr, on the other hand, didn't sell at all. I would like to know if it was the same in other countries. There's no difference between both except the looks......

CosworthKid
10-17-2006, 04:00 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mick78</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>That's the point: I remeber, and still have the magazines at home, when the Stilo arrived in 2001/2002, everyone was writing like oh yes, now they made everything right, good car, avoiding mistakes from previous generation - yet as it didn't sell up to expectations, everyone suddenly knew the reasons why. Basically, like all "above B-segment" Fiats, it lacked the brand image for serious competition.<br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Allow me to disagree here mate. Stilo got a lukewarm reception when it was released, and the praises it got was that it looked German which, in the end, rpoved to be its weakest link. People dont want to buy a VW-wannabe Fiat, especially one that looked so freakin dull in 5-door form. The 3-door looked really good but again, it lacked all the Italian flair that the Bravo/Brava had. Sure, those 2 didnt set sales on fire but that was due to the usual Fiat reliability problems. You need to be individualistic and make a strong case to appeal to European buyers. Look at how long it takes Alfa Romeo to actually start being competitive, and they have some of the most gorgeous cars around. Fiat did great with Punto, Panda and will do great with 500. Now the Croma was a mistake IMO. This Stilo needs to be agressively marketed and having great looks will help heaps, A great price, good line-up of engines and finally better reliability will secure a decent market share but a few generations need to pass by before it actually becomes a very good seller. Some markets, such as Italy, Greece and Spain, it will fair much better since Fiat has been a strong seller there, But to the rest it needs to try extra hard and be patient.

the1
10-17-2006, 04:49 AM
Eventually it all comes down to its reliability and price. If it will fare well in these areas then it can be a success, not a huge hit, but a real compact class contender.

mick78
10-17-2006, 06:01 AM
Well, i think the Stilo had a conservative design due to the fact that many very individualistic 90's Fiats weren't accepted by the public too well, with the Multipla as an absolute disaster. IMO the Barchetta and Coupe Fiat looked great, but still never sold. And especially in large markets like Germany and UK, conservative designs sold much better in the 90s, so Fiat tried what seemed logic, design a conservative car for the largest european market segment. (Btw., the Stilo designer came from VW, quite logic it looked like one...).<p>THe good critics were for the "quality feeling" and technical equipment like radar cruise control, keyless entry etc. (then again, no one orderd them). Some magazines even praised the suspension to be nice compromise, sthg. that receieved massive critics after the Stilo showed once again that larger Fiats don't sell. Quality at least IS a big advance from Brava/o, as in german TUEV statistics, first time a Fiat is not last in the C-segment but somewhere in the midfield, near VW products and more reliable than the Pug 307 (At least the 3 year olds - long term quality will have to proove stable)<p>Finally, the Chroma is not a mistake, as it sells better than Fiat was expecting it. Development was cheap (using mainly existing components), so break even is somewhere at 20.000 units sold annualy, and sales are around 50.000, so it actually even brings some needed cash. It might be horribly bland, but it "sellls", by it's standards.<p>

the1
10-17-2006, 06:24 AM
I had no idea the Croma is sucessful.

mick78
10-17-2006, 06:27 AM
Well, as i said "success" - low expectations, so not much to fail.<p>On the other hand, the GOlf Mk. V shows that a bestseller can still be not a success, if costs of the car are too high and sales are a bit worse than the prevoius one.

the1
10-17-2006, 06:38 AM
That's why Golf 6 is on its way earlier than expected. <p>As it seems like the Bravo will be unveiled in Bologna, in December, when will it be available? Spring 2007?

mick78
10-17-2006, 06:43 AM
I've read that Bologna will have a concept (production ready like Mondeo etc.) and the production car should be in Geneva, and directly after that on sale....<p>But we will know in december.

the1
10-17-2006, 08:14 AM
They should launch it as soon as possible, anyway.

MrMGMan
10-17-2006, 09:24 AM
Based on the pricing of the Grande Punto in the UK market, starting at 7,594, symbolically 1 cheaper than the list price of the Punto it replaced (and around 1,000 cheaper model-for-model than rival Supermini's) I'd expect the new Stilo/Bravo to be pitched from around 10,995, a good 500-1,000 cheaper than the opposition from Ford, Vauxhall and Volkswagen.

the1
10-17-2006, 09:27 AM
That marketing strategy would be great.

CosworthKid
10-17-2006, 10:33 AM
Yep. That would be my estimate as well.

salebg
10-24-2006, 08:01 AM
<A HREF="http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4827/24102006004ey5.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img79.imageshack.us/img...5.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8250/24102006005jx2.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img79.imageshack.us/img...2.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4741/24102006002wh0.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img64.imageshack.us/img...0.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3002/24102006003bz4.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img79.imageshack.us/img...4.jpg</A><br>

CosworthKid
10-24-2006, 11:27 AM
Only the second link works for me mate, and the pic in that one is so distorted it looks funny, lol

the1
10-24-2006, 04:32 PM
Here it is. :) I love it! It's gorgeous.<p><A HREF="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3884/bravo002fm0adm5.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img214.imageshack.us/im...5.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9594/bravo003fv3ani9.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img212.imageshack.us/im...9.jpg</A><p>The new Fiat badge.<br><A HREF="http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1415/fiatst1luk9.png" TARGET="_blank">http://img205.imageshack.us/im...9.png</A><p>Petrol<br>1.4 16V (95-100HP Southern European Special, Italy-Greece-Portugal)<br>1.4T 120HP<br>1.4T 150HP<br>1.8T 180HP<p>Multijets<br>1.6 JTD 105HP<br>1.6 JTD 120HP<br>1.9 JTD 150HP

CosworthKid
10-24-2006, 05:00 PM
What do u mean new Fiat badge? They just changed their logo a couple of years ago.<br>Bravo looks good..still think its not good enough if the rest of the package isnt there, handsome hatches are becoming a given lately

the1
10-24-2006, 05:30 PM
Well, it's definately more handsome than a Focus, an Astra or a Golf. So... job well done. Let's wait for the rest of the package. Job no2, the engines, is also very well done. 1.4T with 120/150hp, 1.8T 180 sound delicious.

hakkinen
10-24-2006, 06:24 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do u mean new Fiat badge? They just changed their logo a couple of years ago.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well... they've changed it again! In fact it is the 16th time since the "fabrica" started to produce cars.<p>They didn't change it a couple of years ago the last time though. It was back to 98 with the release of Punto Mk2. <p>@ndreas

Gian86
10-25-2006, 12:36 AM
Looks very nice with new Fiat badge. However, the new logo is mixed with few iconic fiat badges in the past 60 years.<br>Here's Fiat's logo history from the same magazine there:<p><A HREF="http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2524/bravo001lt2.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img127.imageshack.us/im...2.jpg</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Gian86 at 6:44 PM 10/25/2006</i>

Blob
10-25-2006, 03:08 AM
Looks fantastic, and I love the new/old Fiat badge. Has this new logo been confirmed, or is it just speculation?

the1
10-25-2006, 04:53 AM
It's confirmed. Look at the Bravo pics, it has the new badge.

CosworthKid
10-25-2006, 05:32 AM
I still dond get the badge change. Its far too soon and i just got used to the current one, i liked it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> Maybe its a badge used for their sportier or "cooler" youth oriented vehicles?

Gian86
10-25-2006, 06:17 AM
One more pic from Quattroruote magazine (interior):<p><A HREF="http://thecarfanatic.com/wordpress/wp-content/24102006003bz4.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://thecarfanatic.com/wordp...4.jpg</A>

the1
10-25-2006, 06:18 AM
It could be. Like the red Honda badge used for hot R versions. :)

the1
10-25-2006, 08:02 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/7/18a02bafb9310defca2a89d4e96278d7.jpg" BORDER="0">

dracomoda_0
10-25-2006, 08:45 AM
Wonderful, I love it! Like Madonna sad, " Italian do it better!"...sorry but I'm proud to be an italian Fiat-fan!

CosworthKid
10-25-2006, 10:19 AM
That interior pic clearly shows the current blue FIAT logo with the leafs. Weird. Interior looks good, like the steering wheel. I can see a strong Alfa influence in the choice of colours and materials in the console (the silverish plastic with the black) which aint bad. I hope the instrumens are a bit more creative and stylish than those uses in VAG vehicles or the Focus. Maybe, dare i say. something along those of the new Auris?

the1
10-25-2006, 10:44 AM
Which interior picture are you reffering to? The one from the scanned mag is a cgi.

CosworthKid
10-25-2006, 11:18 AM
Yeah it looks like it came from the same Alfa 149 scan as well. But i got fooled into thinking it was an actual pic, Sorry

the1
10-25-2006, 11:25 AM
I hope we'll see some pics of the interior, too, tomorrow.

mick78
10-25-2006, 11:26 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>the1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hope we'll see some pics of the interior, too, tomorrow.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>And i hope it'll be different to the cgi, as it looks too busy to me - too many lines, coloures, shapes, surfaces - less could be more.

the1
10-25-2006, 11:34 AM
It is said to be close to that cgi, but more refined and less busy.

salebg
10-26-2006, 05:56 AM
<A HREF="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6010/bravo1pt2.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img209.imageshack.us/im...2.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1235/bravo2cn8.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img209.imageshack.us/im...8.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5601/bravo3bv1.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img209.imageshack.us/im...1.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5856/bravo4zy3.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img216.imageshack.us/im...3.jpg</A><br>

salebg
10-26-2006, 05:59 AM
<A HREF="http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9451/nuovafiatbravoanteprimawo1.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img125.imageshack.us/im...1.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8628/nuovafiatbravoanteprimaos5.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img125.imageshack.us/im...5.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5446/nuovafiatbravoanteprimahe7.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img125.imageshack.us/im...7.jpg</A>

the1
10-26-2006, 06:37 AM
The discussion should continue on this topic.<p><A HREF="http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=21354&page=2" TARGET="_blank">http://www.carspyshots.net/zer...age=2</A>

salebg
12-17-2006, 07:15 AM
<A HREF="http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/fiat/12/bravo_photos/gallery/gallery.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiaspeed.com/200....html</A>

the1
12-17-2006, 07:33 AM
Nice.

mzoltarp
12-17-2006, 08:04 AM
The hatch angle looks kind of ungainly. The other angles look great.

mick78
12-17-2006, 04:46 PM
NIce, but shouldn't this be in the Bravo section?