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Ascariss
12-16-2004, 09:56 PM
old thread:<br><A HREF="http://carspyshots.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=spy&action=display&num=1090238774" TARGET="_blank">http://carspyshots.proboards2....38774</A><p>Call Of The Wild for 9-5<p>The Scandinavian revolution starts here. Saab's drive to be more modern and vibrant has begun, and we've got our hands on the official proof.<p>These exclusive top-secret sketches are from the firm's design team, and are part of the project to replace the ageing 9-5. According to sources, they are the last work of ex-styling chief Michael Mauer and were finished days before he defected to Porsche in April. The images reveal three versions of the new 9-5 - a saloon, estate and a four-door hatchback supercar. <p>Due on sale by 2007, the radical range should rid the brand of its executive rep image. The hatchback has a swept-up tail and wears spectacular 21-inch wheels. Insiders have told us the car will get a new grille design, with a prominent centre section that stands out from the rest of the nose.<p>The new estate is vastly different from today's model. Similar to the Honda Accord Tourer, the sketch shows a long, low car, with continuous side windows. It also features prominent wraparound headlamps, although designers have stuck with Saab's traditional clamshell bonnet. The sporting saloon is perhaps the most conventional of the three, revealing clear links with the current car. <p>Our sources tell us Saab has yet to rubber-stamp the plans to replace the 9-5, but it's possible that any new model will use GM's rear-wheel-drive chassis from the Insignia concept. That would be a radical move for the company, which has long been associated with front-wheel-drive models. The new 9-5 will still use turbocharged four-cylinder engines, as well as GM's 3.2-litre V6 in normally aspirated and turbo forms. <p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_31/car_portal_pic_15644.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_31/car_portal_pic_15643.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>article & pics from autoexpress by Hilton Holloway <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>GhostDog</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I found this on a swedish website this morning<p><IMG SRC="http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/0408/07/BIL-07s01saab_368.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><A HREF="http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil" TARGET="_blank">http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil</A>/<p>What Do you think front view of the"supercar"<p>I wish that wagon pic would show up<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>drugmirko</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>nice render poped out obviousky based on that drawing I posted on first page of this thread:<p><IMG SRC="http://www.autocarmagazine.com//Car/Saab/9-5/31844124356.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>and there's also an article of things to come from Saab:<p><A HREF="http://www.autocarmagazine.com/news_article.asp?na_id=210769" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autocarmagazine.com...10769</A><p>source autocar<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Continue the discussion here.

Spectre
01-01-2005, 03:58 PM
Well, back-wheel drive, built in Australia. Could be a good car. Like a Ferrari built in Korea. It needs to grow, but doesn't need to lose its soul. Remember 9-7 X, forget it.

JBlair
01-01-2005, 04:01 PM
There is no guarantee that it will be RWD. Most of the rumors coming from GM center on it being FWD based on the so-called Epsilon-plus platform. RWD would be a nice change for Saab, but I don't see it happening.

Redline
01-01-2005, 04:16 PM
For some reason I don't see the tail-lights being long like that. I expect more like the old Maserati Coupe's tails.

KebabGud
01-01-2005, 04:43 PM
a RWD saab sounds cool ...<br>butt still .. its just so wrong...<br>i hate FWD .. butt saab is like .. the only good FWD cars ever made

Top Secret
01-01-2005, 06:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i hate FWD .. butt saab is like .. the only good FWD cars ever made</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What about Honda?<p>Anyway, yes, there have been rumours that the new VE Commodore with be the basis of the new 9-5 but I really don't see that happening. How about a rebadged Daewoo?

Hornbag
01-01-2005, 06:49 PM
Whoo, i like that top picture. Its very Saab, but modern and elegant! The rest are to overdone tho. <p>Top Secret, the next Saab 9-5 will be based on the upscale platform of the Commodore (i read it in WHEELS). I will try to find that info as i think it had something about this car.

JBlair
01-01-2005, 06:51 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whoo, i like that top picture. Its very Saab, but modern and elegant! The rest are to overdone tho. <p>Top Secret, the next Saab 9-5 will be based on the upscale platform of the Commodore (i read it in WHEELS). I will try to find that info as i think it had something about this car.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>We'll have to see about that. I seriously doubt that Saab would abandon its FWD tradition (in non-stopgap vehicles) so easily.

Top Secret
01-01-2005, 07:01 PM
Hornbag, not EVERYTHING that WHEELS says is correct. I seriously doubt it will switch to RWD, maybe AWD, but not RWD.

Hornbag
01-01-2005, 07:07 PM
I agree, i dont think they will switch to RWD. The premium platform that is similar to the Commodore platform IS front wheel drive. Im about to find out the name of the platform.

Top Secret
01-01-2005, 07:13 PM
You mean the platform that Cadillac uses? That's RWD also.

Hornbag
01-01-2005, 07:24 PM
What a guess, the first mag i pulled out was the one with all the info!!!<p>Delta - front wheel drive small car (astra)<br>Epsilon - medium car (9-3)<br>Kappa - small rear wheel drive (solstice)<br>Zeta - large rear and awd (commodore)<br>Sigma - premium rear wheel drive/awd (CTS)<br>Theta - small/medium awd crossover (equinox)<p>Sorry, i was a little mistaken. These are the 6 global archetectures that will be used within the GM name. <p>WHEELS April 2004

JBlair
01-01-2005, 09:38 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What a guess, the first mag i pulled out was the one with all the info!!!<p>Delta - front wheel drive small car (astra)<br>Epsilon - medium car (9-3)<br>Kappa - small rear wheel drive (solstice)<br>Zeta - large rear and awd (commodore)<br>Sigma - premium rear wheel drive/awd (CTS)<br>Theta - small/medium awd crossover (equinox)<p>Sorry, i was a little mistaken. These are the 6 global archetectures that will be used within the GM name. <p>WHEELS April 2004</TD></TR></TABLE><p>They won't switch. According to all of the rumors they will use a stretched and strengthened version of the Vectra/9-3 platform.

Hornbag
01-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Well if they do keep front wheel drive (yes IMO they will) the only option is to use a stretched Saab 9-3 platform.

Ghost_In_The_Machine
01-02-2005, 08:02 PM
Or a Stretched Legacy platform.

Top Secret
01-02-2005, 08:24 PM
Legacy is AWD. Anyhoot, I don't think they would use another Subaru platform; you know how angry Subaru got when they used the Impreza base.

AXLE
01-03-2005, 02:18 AM
SAABs design team is amazing, with the recent conepts that we have seen from them, but its still going to be a GM product and that is bad.<p>For example I love the new 9-3 styling (except for the hairdressers convertable) but under all of that is poor quaility and resale values. I mean it uses the same engine as the Holden Astra and chevy cobolt, if they are in econoboxes then those engines do not belong in a premium sedan especially a sedan such as the Saab (nevermind that they are turbo-charged). All GM cars are put togther with all of the same parts, look at volvo and what ford has done with it. Even after Ford bought Volvo, they still remained Volvo (engines etc) and the same thing for Ford. Some might argue that it is cheaper for GM to do this. I think that it is wrong.<p>Another thing, it is extremely rare that the actually product that come out on the market ends up looking like the designers original sketch. I need to see the metal!!!

Santeno
01-03-2005, 10:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a RWD saab sounds cool ...<br>butt still .. its just so wrong...<br>i hate FWD .. butt saab is like .. the only good FWD cars ever made</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I guess Subaru most modern Alfa Romeos, Mazdas, Toyota celicas, Volvos, Audis, Imprezas, Acuras/Hondas, Mini's, Etc. are what... Chopped liver?

Roadster44
01-03-2005, 12:51 PM
Saab steering to rwd might turn off a lot of long time fans. So I think fwd with awd being an option would make sense. But mostly what matter is this...if Saab wants to be popular again, it needs to have more attractive, different styling. An also ran would not work. Maybe they should go the Alfa Romeo way and be more emotional with their designs of exterior and interior. That would sell.

taskbearer
01-04-2005, 02:52 AM
What Michael Mauer did for saab styling is amazing, I just hope they keep the designs according to the lines he created. Saab is currently in a cross road and GM is sluggish about doing anything quickly. well they abandonned the brand for more than a decade. so any hew thing is well welcomed, but the only problem is if they can match the competition.<p>The idea of Saab going the alfa romeo route is a nice one. IMO their styling should be outragious and they should focus on making individualistic cars. Thats when the GM problem arises. since GM would have to appeal to americans their designs would be tonned down heavily.

Reppu
01-04-2005, 04:09 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since GM would have to appeal to americans their designs would be tonned down heavily. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I say, forget the american market, focus on recovering all your traditional identity, try a strong growth on the european market. Nobody is happy with the 9-2 or the 9-7x, the american market is a lost war for Saab anyway.

bucket
01-04-2005, 06:13 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I say, forget the american market, focus on recovering all your traditional identity, try a strong growth on the european market. Nobody is happy with the 9-2 or the 9-7x, the american market is a lost war for Saab anyway. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>i agree. in the past five years, gm's ownership of saab has destroyed the one thing that kept saab alive for so long in america: brand loyalty.

Hornbag
01-05-2005, 08:46 PM
Bucket and Reppu, dudes, i respect you both! You got it in one. Heres to hoping Saab return to their roots and get back to making cheeky good looking cars.

Yannis
01-05-2005, 09:57 PM
I always liked SAAB and especially the new 9-3 but i 'm not convinced that sharing platforms and engines with common GM models (like Vectra) will help their image as a luxury brand. If they were using Caddy's engines and platforms (even if that means RWD) things will be a lot better. <p> As for the 9-5 , the current model has been on the market for ages so i hope they replace it soon for their own good. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0">

bucket
01-06-2005, 03:30 AM
i know i can't be the only one that believes so, but i think ten years from now saab will be little more than a few styling cues and a badge on a chevy/pontiac/subaru/buick/cadillac clone. gm has really steered them into the toilet.

DrPetrus
01-06-2005, 07:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bucket</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know i can't be the only one that believes so, but i think ten years from now saab will be little more than a few styling cues and a badge on a chevy/pontiac/subaru/buick/cadillac clone. gm has really steered them into the toilet.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You are not alone. Ever since my first car SAAB has held a special place in my heart. The development over recent years has made me want to cry. Granted, something had to be done to save SAAB as a brand but GM has taken all the wrong and "safe" decisions when some evolutionary and radical were called for. No wonder Michael Mauer (the only good thing to have happened to SAAB in recent years) decided to quit and go to Porsche (?) instead. In a few years even the styling cues won't be SAAB (shudders when thinking of 9-7X and 9-2X).

summersun54
01-10-2005, 08:09 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Legacy is AWD. Anyhoot, I don't think they would use another Subaru platform; you know how angry Subaru got when they used the Impreza base.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>ah yes but these is another saaburu on the way in the form of the saab9.6x and the subaru b9trebica <br>I dont think Saab have a clue what they are going to do for a 9.5 replacement. Id say it will end up being based on a malibu maxx/ opel sigma platform...but who knows... I doubt Saab do<br>

nismo
01-22-2005, 11:56 AM
Luts has been quoted saying that the new 9-5 could be built on the new RWD platform but would have to be AWD to be more SAAB like. I actually think theres hope for SAAB because I think GM has noticed that the public does not want "simple" rebadge models hence the short model runs planned for the 9-2x and the 9-7x. Hopefully GM will build the 9-5 on the RWD/AWD platform and offer the new 255hp 2.8 V6 turbo for the base model and turbo the 3.6 V6 so it can make around 300hp, that would help make them more competitive and it shouldn't be hard for them to do. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

Roadster44
01-22-2005, 12:09 PM
Saab can survive, but it has a very limited market audience to which it appeals. In my opinion a good car will sell no matter what it is. But if you make an average product with lame styling then its bound to be overlooked. Saab has no respect from anyone these days. So in my opinion they ought to take more chances on styling, put some emotion into it. Give it that X-factor...personality. Right now all I'm seeing is sort of a catch-up to reality, a concervative approach. As for platform, keep them FWD with AWD option and it'll be fine.

mzoltarp
01-23-2005, 08:28 AM
Saab's #1 problem is figuring out where it fits into GM's world. In the US it collides with the Buick and Cadillac price range if not clientele. GM needs to prune its brands. Saturn, Buick, Pontiac, and Saab should be condensed into two: Pontiac and Saab. Buick is bore city and Saturn is the new Oldsmobile. Pontiac should be "one up" from Chevy and Saab "one up" from Pontiac, but below Cadillac. Saab also needs some captivating styling. The 9-3 is pleasant but not stunning. The 9-5 I drove a month ago back to back with the Cadillac CTS at the local Cadillac-Saab dealer showed the horrid age of the 9-5. GM will ultimately nickle and dime Saab into oblivion.

KaRaceR
01-23-2005, 11:06 AM
looks nice very nice,very sleek,<br>i dont like the big tail lights they spoil the sleekness,<br>plus the look like they are on the top and side of the car, which is not the best place for the driver behind to see the brake lights(you dont want some driving in to the back of you with a nice new car)

Hornbag
01-25-2005, 05:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually think theres hope for SAAB because I think GM has noticed that the public does not want "simple" rebadge models hence the short model runs planned for the 9-2x and the 9-7x. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think the damage has been done, the whole rebadge thing has stuffed Saab in the US. Luts needs a boot in the head for approving that, ive never liked him, but this makes me HATE him.<p>I agree with mzoltarp, Saab doesnt really fit anwhere in the GM range.

JBlair
01-25-2005, 08:57 PM
The reason why Saab is struggling is because GM meddled. Had GM left Saab alone to develop its identity, while pushing them to do more with a wider availability of varied technology, they probably would have turned out as Volvo is now.

Naga Royal Guard
01-25-2005, 08:59 PM
the saab 9-3 has brought great success to Saab, thanks to GM <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0">

mzoltarp
01-26-2005, 05:29 AM
It's interesting that GM is using the same strategy with Saab that Ford uses with Volvo (platform sharing with distinctive bodies). Volvo went aggressive and Saab went bland. While the current 9-3 is selling better than the last one, it has failed to ignite in the marketplace and tends to sit on dealer lots with discounts posted. Saab needs a direct injection of passion. There is no way GM could have left Saab alone to develop its own cars because the business case for a stand-alone series of cars at Saabs low volume would just not make sense. The 9-3 at least did not suffer from GM's Azteckosity design, but it needs to be updated soon with something a bit more eye catching. GM is squandering their opportunity and it's indicative of their overall design paralysis.

summersun54
01-28-2005, 08:15 AM
Lutz has said in an interview recently, and has stated often enough already that the Saab dealers were screaming for an suv..The money was not these /the timeframe / architecture needed to develop a suv so as a short term solution, the trailblazer was used..The same goes for the 9-2x..These products are not great GM know that and they are short-term solutions which could be gotten to the market quicker and cheaper.<p>Lutz also said that without GM forking out $200million a year in subsidies there would be no Saab.<p> In fairness to GM they seem to have remained very hands off Sweden until the recent restructuring of GM Europe. The red ink has to stop and action was needed.<p>He also pointed out that Saabs were always made with other peoples technology and parts. Going way back to when Saabs had Ford engines<p>It is incorrect to solely blame GM for Saabs woes. a lot are brought on themselves<br>As regards future product.. 9-5 still undecided so the old model struggles on <br>for a few more years.<br>The 9-3 is finally getting their sport hatch/wagon.<br>There is the new 9-6 sabburu coming on stream <br>A new 9-2 with more distinctiveness is being jointly developed with Subaru <br> <br>Lutz also stated that Saab are also stuck in that if they maintain their uniqueness this is a limited market of about 120,000: people but to change causes outrage...so as was pointed out early in the thread they are stuck in a bind..but its one that wil have to se sorted out soon<p>to breifly sum up it is not all down to big bad GM but it as also not all down to Saab..somewhere in between lies the truth to Saabs woes<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by summersun54 at 7:22 AM 1/28/2005</i>

Tidal
02-22-2005, 04:31 PM
From Automotive News Europe, apparently only the doors stay the same. Anyone got any more info/pics?<p> <A HREF="http://europe.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=55553" TARGET="_blank">http://europe.autonews.com/art...55553</A>

Charger
02-22-2005, 04:33 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>DVieira</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From Automotive News Europe, apparently only the doors stay the same. Anyone got anymore info/pics?<p> <A HREF="http://europe.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=55553" TARGET="_blank">http://europe.autonews.com/art...55553</A> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>You have to register to view that and also a thread already exists so please get us that info and post it here<br><A HREF="http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=12299" TARGET="_blank">http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=12299</A>

Tidal
02-23-2005, 11:33 AM
Sorry. So according to this Automotive News Europe article, the 9-5 is getting a major re skin, to be presented in Frankfurt, to, quote " extend it's life span while GM decides whether to replace it " <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> . Only the doors are supposed to be carried over. <br>I've also read some speculation about a co-developed product with Subaru ( which kinda makes sense now ), but that's years away. When is Subaru supposed to release a new Legacy?

Santeno
02-23-2005, 11:42 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>DVieira</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When is Subaru supposed to release a new Legacy?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>It just did, last year.

bolita
02-23-2005, 11:44 AM
New Legacy should come out 2007 or 2008 ...

Tidal
02-23-2005, 12:08 PM
They better make it a REALLY good restyling then... 10 years is way to long for a car nowadays, and the 9-5 platform will be twice replaced by then ( it's the 95 Vectra's if im not mistaken ).<p>It just bothers me when they say " whether to replace it ". If Saab is supposed to be GM's world premium brand, do they really have a choice? Or are they planning to release yet another SUV/Crossover thingy? <p>Supposedly, they backed down from the premium platform they where developing with Alfa ( 159, Brera ) because of cost cutting, but they have to be loosing more money like this, with an ageing car, costing them sales and image imo. Sometimes, it feels like no one is thinking at Saab... or GM...<p>

Andre
02-23-2005, 10:38 PM
New Legacy: 2010 or later<p>It was all new for 2004, so at least six years.<p>I'm wondering if thy'll be expanding up and bringing in a model above the 9-5, then phasing he 9-5 out completely ("whether" to replace it)

saabish
03-10-2005, 04:21 AM
A swedish newspaper publsihed these pictures today:<br><A HREF="http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/0503/10/NYHETER-10s24-NySaab-468_368.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/...8.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/0503/10/NYHETER-10s24-NySaabBak-313_368.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/...8.jpg</A><p>The article says that some improvements has been done to the front and the rear to make it look more smoother and "saabish".<br>The topmodel, Aero, will be powered by a 280bhp engine (the old 250bhp engine but tuned).<br>The car should be in the showrooms by late summer and the price should remain the same.<p>Source: <A HREF="http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/bil/story/0,2789,615002,00.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/....html</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Ascariss at 6:15 AM 3/10/2005</i>

viggen
04-12-2005, 09:58 AM
Recent rendering from AMS:<p> <IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/76/Saab9-5_450.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/Saab9-3_450.jpg" BORDER="0"> <p>they talk about a crossover between a break and coupe<p><A HREF="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/78786" TARGET="_blank">http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/78786</A><p><i>Modified by Santeno at 1:11 PM 4/12/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by viggen at 10:40 AM 4/12/2005</i>

Charger
04-12-2005, 10:30 AM
I actually like that a lot. Although it looks a bit SUVish and the back probably wont look like that. I dunno, we'll have to wait and see.

CalinG7
04-12-2005, 10:38 AM
Interesting................. it's so hard-edged it makes me think it'll be sharing a lot with cadillac vehicles. Somehow, though, I doubt it will look like that.

Uberwagon
04-12-2005, 10:56 PM
Yeah, the back looks a little odd, doesn't it? Perhaps that's just the liberties taken with the illustration? I hope Saab doesn't go away - It's a brand and a country with too much character to lose such an interesting line of cars. The 9-3 is still a good car and adding a sportwagon is good move back to their core audience of premium hatch buyers (perhaps that odd 9-5 back is a hatch too?). Let's hop GM get's the knack and revives Saab with decent product and a little Swedish vision.

DoMiNo
04-12-2005, 11:24 PM
It's quite clear that GM is intent on restoring the true Swedish-ness to the SAAB brand. I mean look at the 9-7x! *sarcastic groan*<p><br>I completely agree with you, Uberwagon... it would be a damn shame to lose the essence of that brand. I think the sportwagon is a step in the right direction, though, and hopefully the 9-2 and 9-7 will give SAAB the sales boost they need to invest some real money in innovative products.

Uberwagon
04-12-2005, 11:40 PM
Sadly, I think the 9-2 is already a flop (a great variant of a great car though) and IMHO the 9-7 is a flop waiting to happen. I don't think I'm alone on this, am I folks? <p>Two turkeys in a row does not make for robust development budgets. Saab may go away in the US without a brain transplant at GM... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

syclone
04-14-2005, 07:18 PM
it definitely could go away without action, but if the spy pics here are any indication, this 9-5 sucessor will bring back something unique to the brand. whether or not it will be a success is another thing though. in any case, i think the 9-2 and 9-7 are essentially stopgap models put in place while they get the 9-5 mess sorted. essentially, this car could easily make or break the brand at this point since a 9-5 replacement is about a decade over due. The other models were put in place to rekindle at least a bit interest in the brand so that this new model didn't have to be rushed.

mzoltarp
04-15-2005, 05:38 AM
The spy pic is just a re-nosed 9-5 and that will not be good enough if that is as far as it goes. Maybe GM should sell Saab to BMW and stop the march to Saabishness (9-2 Saabaru, 9-7x Saabvrolet, Car and Driver showed a 9-5x Saabwoo). GM could have done a Toyota/Lexus thing between Saab and Saturn. First and foremost, Saturn needs to be the American version of Opel and that seems apparent that it is their plan. Imagine a well engineered Ion with a reskinned up-market version called the 9-2. The Aura would relate to the 9-3 and a larger sedan could become a 9-5 and possibly a Chevy. It's all based on the Camry/ES330 concept. One excellent design for the high end car which is then produced in mass quantity as a bread and butter car with excellent refinement. GM tends to do the opposite. They design the low end car and then use chewing gum and toilet paper to make it a luxury model. Can anyone say Cadillac Cimmaron? If they had developed the Cimarron to be Cadillac worthy and then produced a bread and butter version called the Cavalier, the grip of the Toyota Corolla and the Honda Civic might not have become the stronghold that it is today.

CalinG7
04-15-2005, 02:07 PM
With all due respect, but I'm pretty sure most, if not all companies, design their platforms with the lower model in mind first, and then build a higher-priced luxury version. After all the Camry became the Lexus ES, not the other way around, and the Golf became the A3, and so on. <p>Engineers sweat bullets trying to wring out pennies from a vehicle architecture, and that's mostly because it's so hard to make a profit on entry-level, low-priced vehicles. Taking one of those architectures, re-tuning it, adding some leather, a bigger engine (sometimes), and charging a few thousand dollars premium is the easy part. I even read an interview with a CEO, I believe it was Bill Ford, and he also stated that it's easier to engineer an inexpenssive architecture for a more expenssive vehicle, than it it trying to take out cost of a complex, luxury architecture so that it becomes viable for a less-expenssive model.

Addex
04-17-2005, 05:02 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.bilsport.se/bild_arkiv/81/00000007381.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Rumourd pic of the facelifted 9-5 that will come this fall.

Addex
04-17-2005, 05:07 AM
O'hoy, I found the pics.<p><IMG SRC="http://img45.echo.cx/img45/1227/95fram7yz.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://img45.echo.cx/img45/224/95bak3te.jpg" BORDER="0"> <p>Maybe someone can make a ps of them?

DrPetrus
04-17-2005, 05:44 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Addex</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><IMG SRC="http://www.bilsport.se/bild_arkiv/81/00000007381.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Rumourd pic of the facelifted 9-5 that will come this fall.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>BMW rip-off! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> Not satisfied with being boring, SAAB has now decided to be unoriginal and boring. I am crying crocodile tears here. <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

Redline
04-17-2005, 09:29 AM
Just be logical for a minute here, the new 3-series isn't even out yet, this car has probably been in development for almost as long as the new 3-series, and there is no way that the back end was designed and a car already built incorporating the new back end in a few months.

sanbar778
04-17-2005, 10:26 AM
Uhm...is this an "all-new" design?? Sure doesn't look like it to me. What makes Saab think this cars is only due for a face-lift? I thought the 9-5 was due for complete replacement a few years ago. Weird.

DrPetrus
04-17-2005, 10:28 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Redline</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just be logical for a minute here, the new 3-series isn't even out yet, this car has probably been in development for almost as long as the new 3-series, and there is no way that the back end was designed and a car already built incorporating the new back end in a few months.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is a facelift of the current 9-5 and not a new car, so yes it would be possible. (These pictures are in the wrong thread.) But I was not referring specifically to the upcoming 3-series. Several BMW's share this off-set backlight arrangements in different variations.<p>Current 3-series: <A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw/serie3_03/0primera/gra/28.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw...8.asp</A><br>X5: <A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw/x5_04/0primera/gra/05.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw...5.asp</A><br>New 7-series: <A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw/2005/serie7/gama/gra/03.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/bmw...3.asp</A><p>And coming to think of it, Audi as well: <br> A3 Sportback: <A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/audi/a3_05/sportback20tfsi-p/gra/07.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/aud...7.asp</A><p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DrPetrus at 7:34 PM 4/17/2005</i>

Redline
04-17-2005, 12:32 PM
You're still forgetting that all of these cars are new, while it doesn't look like the new 3-series (I guess I just wasn't thinking on that one), only the A3 and the new 7er look remotely like this and they are both far too new for this to be a copy of them.

Omar
04-18-2005, 03:56 AM
i still don't think it looks good. a facelift's supposed to boost sales, but this doesn't look very pretty.<p>Front looks sharp, though

mzoltarp
04-21-2005, 04:53 AM
Remember that when manufacturers say "all new" these days they are saying that no used parts are on the car. They can add a strip of chrome and call it "all new" and they do.

AM2
04-21-2005, 06:33 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mzoltarp</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember that when manufacturers say "all new" these days they are saying that no used parts are on the car. They can add a strip of chrome and call it "all new" and they do. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>These days "All-new" is used for cars that were given major upgrades/facelifts... like the Porsche 911(997), 2005 Audi A4 or the 2006 Chevy Impala for example. Not all the parts are "all-new" but most are heavily modified.(making them new? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> )<p>I think the new Saab 9-5 is just a facelift... new front and tail... old looking greenhouse. <br>Between the two, I'd still go for the Volvo S80. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://comp.autosite.com/configurator/photos/200x100jpg/VOL802.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 9:46 PM 4/21/2005</i>

Santeno
05-19-2005, 01:14 PM
So this is really a facelift then, not an entirely new car?

saabish
05-20-2005, 10:21 AM
The spy pics posted in this thread are showing tha FACE-LIFTED 9-5.<br>Today swedish newspapers report that the 9-5 will be built in Germany...in the same factory as the forthcoming 9-3 (due to that they share components and platform (?))

italo
05-20-2005, 11:32 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>saabish</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The spy pics posted in this thread are showing tha FACE-LIFTED 9-5.<br>Today swedish newspapers report that the 9-5 will be built in Germany...in the same factory as the forthcoming 9-3 (due to that they share components and platform (?))</TD></TR></TABLE><br>That's probably the replacement/all-new 9-5 that will debut in a few years, not the refreshend one GM is gonna unveil at the end of the year. <p>I wonder what will be produced at the factory in Trollhattan? I wonder if GM will decide to build a Zeta car for Europe there in place of the 9-5 and 9-3? They have to do something with that site..

Santeno
05-20-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm confused, so opel will be building the 9-5 and 9-3, while subaru will be building the 9-2 and the Crossover; and GMC the SUV? Where does that leave Sweden? Just corporate management?

protocatcher
05-20-2005, 12:02 PM
The factory in Trollhättan / Sweden will be building small series of "specialcars" like convertibles, coupes , SUVs and so on .<br>While the bigger series , like the new 9-5 (based on the same platform like the new Vectra and 9-3)<br>The SUV 9-6 will be based on the Subaru according to the latest news (20/5) and not on the Daewoo/Chevy.

AM2
05-20-2005, 12:50 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>protocatcher</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The SUV 9-6 will be based on the Subaru according to the latest news (20/5) and not on the Daewoo/Chevy.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Does this mean no Diesel engine option?

protocatcher
05-20-2005, 12:56 PM
From what i heard Subaru is working on a Diesel. Heard it from a Subaru dealer so i dont know if its true .

Shomare
05-20-2005, 02:03 PM
As a former SAAB fan and owner I am so incredibly saddened by the direction SAAB has taken under GMs ownership.<p>It truly is a shame that a car with a significant history of rallying excellence and automotive innovation and safety has been bastardized to the point that its character has been lost and its roots forsaken.<p>SAAB seems content (or maybe forced) to introduce rebadged products which I would argue are not SAABs but Saabs as one other poster pointed out, as this blatant badge engineering has removed the essence / character of what made SAAB unique if not a bit eccentric.<p>I guess the question is, what does Saab now offer its customers that cant be found elsewhere? They have lost their niche if not their passion and as a result their once healthy customer base.<p>A painful case of lead, follow, or get out of the way if you ask me.<p><br>If its any consolation, maybe the ignition is still on the center counsel.<p><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>

DrPetrus
05-20-2005, 03:34 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Shomare, my brother, you speak the truth.

ritmo
05-20-2005, 04:12 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>italo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder what will be produced at the factory in Trollhattan?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The Cadillac BLS will be built there.

nismo
05-20-2005, 04:28 PM
only until the 9-3 gets replaced in MY2008 after that who knows... <p>I'm not sure GM is going to continue the old platform for the Caddy BLS.

roomwithaview
06-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Edmunds has a picture of the facelifted 9-5 on the street.<p>I'm rather disappointed that they did away with the three-port grille. It's been a Saab trademark item, and they had to go and replace it with a generic one. The lights kind of remind me of the new Hyundai Sonata, but that may just be because of the new grille.<p>Still waiting on shots of the rear and the interior. Hopefully they've really freshened up the inside, since that's one of the areas that was really starting to show its age in the current 9-5.<p>Article: <A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106048" TARGET="_blank">http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...06048</A><p>Picture: <A HREF="http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/il/news/2005/0613/saab.500.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332...0.jpg</A>

Andre
06-14-2005, 10:25 AM
That is an awful photoshop

Redline
06-14-2005, 10:32 AM
It appears they just parked that one in the middle of the road. I wonder if they payed that guy to make that chop.

Omar
06-14-2005, 11:54 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Andre</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is an awful photoshop</TD></TR></TABLE><p>LOL, it was done by <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> Lehmann. I presume he was paid for doing it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0">

Ascariss
06-14-2005, 01:01 PM
Lehmann doesn't do his own chops, he hires out people to do them for him, and this is like the rest, of poor quality and rushed.

nismo
06-14-2005, 04:44 PM
I highly doubt SAAB would get rid of the 3 part grill. I think the parts on the side now are placed with the headlights like the 9X concept. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

Addex
06-27-2005, 10:25 AM
<IMG SRC="http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload7/Saab-festival-2005-051.jpg" BORDER="0">

[AP]adiweb
06-27-2005, 11:15 AM
I prefer our 9 to this one because it simply misses some saab styling in the back. One fact that i like is the 1.9 TiD engine, which is really very powerfull and cultivated.<br>Btw. i see a good olf 9000 in the reflection of the rear bumper <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0">

Ascariss
06-27-2005, 11:16 AM
No front shot?

hakkinen
06-27-2005, 02:33 PM
It reminds me of the previous Avensis, which looked like a BMW.<p>@ndreas

DSC-OFF
06-29-2005, 06:36 AM
Heres a non-hi-res photo, looks somewhat better<p><IMG SRC="http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerofile/1953/saabarolla.jpg" BORDER="0">

ll0ll
06-29-2005, 08:03 AM
And one with the camo removed<p><IMG SRC="http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload0/s95.jpg" BORDER="0">

Tidal
06-29-2005, 10:58 AM
It reminds me of the previous gen Nissan Primera<p><A HREF="http://img87.echo.cx/my.php?image=nissanprimera7el.png" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img87.echo.cx/img87/5168/nissanprimera7el.th.png" BORDER="0"></A><p>The 9-5 really looked it's best when it was released, it was all about simplicity. Scandinavian designs are all about simple and functional lines, that kink in the rear lights just looks busy and unnecessary. I hope they didn't do the same to the wagons lights.<br>

Gunfire
06-29-2005, 11:16 AM
OMG!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> This is such a REVOLUTIONARY change <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> What a great face...erm, BACKlift!! [I hope with all my heart it is not an all brand new model...]<p>This car has even less personality than it had before...<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Great job GM!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

jro4566
06-29-2005, 12:00 PM
Those aren't even LED taillights. Aghhh! If Honda could add LED taillights to the lowly Accord, then surely GM can!

autodanse
06-29-2005, 12:29 PM
current 9-5 for comparison:<p><IMG SRC="http://www.spoilersmax.co.uk/Spoilers/saab_95_spoiler.gif" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundomotor/especiales/2001/12/anuario_motor/imagenes/coches/saab_95_g.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>i hope they didnt mess with the front this badly

roomwithaview
06-29-2005, 12:38 PM
Autodanse, that's a pre-2002 facelift 9-5. Newer 9-5s have a different rear.

Roadster44
06-29-2005, 08:09 PM
They succeeded at making rear end look like bmw 3

autodanse
06-29-2005, 10:45 PM
my bad, the shape for the most part remained the same though

AM2
07-01-2005, 10:03 AM
Has this been posted?<br>Found these at GMinsidenews.<br><A HREF="http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2006saab954tf.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2365/2006saab954tf.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A>

Ascariss
07-01-2005, 11:38 AM
Well GM ruined a perfectly good looking car now.

against the wall
07-01-2005, 12:26 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well GM ruined a perfectly good looking car now.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>again

LSS_C6
07-01-2005, 04:51 PM
Good God!! What have they done to it! It`s horrible! The front rear has nothing to do with the rest of the car! They`ve ruined it! What a great loss...<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

bm88
07-02-2005, 01:46 AM
Looks really cheap, almost Seat like.

sc43018
07-02-2005, 12:41 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MOORHOUSE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks really cheap, almost Seat like.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>i think you mean almost GM-like

Reppu
07-02-2005, 11:08 PM
If AM2's picture is accurate, i think that the front will be something really original and good looking. Visually the grille extends from side to side (including headlight), and i like that a lot. The rear, however, has been seen many times before.

Comrade
07-02-2005, 11:20 PM
what's with 3 lines next to the headlights on the fender... looks like there are 4 seperate panels even tho it's actally 3. <br>Not smooth.<br>I'd like to more changes, it looks like they only rounded some edges and that's it.

Hornbag
07-03-2005, 12:06 AM
The front looks amazing! The way the grille inserts into the light with chrome surround, and the grille too, very nice! The rear looks nice and clean, but i dont see Sabb in it one little bit...

drugmirko
07-05-2005, 11:45 AM
funny how a bunch of you see this rear lights design as everything from Nissan's to BMW... for me, it steped design resembles to last Audi A4 lights.... in a kind of chinese way <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br>and this is kind of it's interior, but I'm not realy shoure of it's accuracy:<p><A HREF="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/tlmansfield/9-5interior.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...r.jpg</A>

synthesis
07-05-2005, 04:43 PM
It's good to see at least the interior still looks like a SAAB. For the moment that is...

knihc2008
07-05-2005, 06:41 PM
except for that GM radio unit.

knihc2008
07-05-2005, 06:43 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has this been posted?<br>Found these at GMinsidenews.<br><A HREF="http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2006saab954tf.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2365/2006saab954tf.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>i think the front looks quite good, actually, but this car doesnt' need a refresh, it needs a total redesign. i think the front woul dhave matched absolutely perfectly had they got rid of the side panels' moldings, making the whole car look quite clean and good.<p>the back is. well. have they ever been original?

Redline
07-05-2005, 07:20 PM
They're certainly not derivative. But it looks terrible I think. Not a very Saab like design. Personally I don't like it, but I may be alone on this.

Dodger
07-05-2005, 07:27 PM
Don't worry, you're not alone

Nick
07-05-2005, 09:30 PM
I like the 9-3...the 9-5 should take a lesson from it...

AXLE
07-06-2005, 02:42 AM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> DAMN YOU GM!!!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!!<p> *Falls to knees and begins pounding ground with fists*

Tidal
07-06-2005, 04:37 AM
I feel like crying now... i just hope this isn't final and is just a design proposal. The front i can live with, although had they changed the side panels to make them squarer at the front ( like on the 9-X concept ), basically putting the blinkers in the same block has the lights, instead of separating them with a chrome strip, it would look much better. But that rear... oh, i'm going... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

toby2449
07-06-2005, 05:10 AM
i like SAAB, but sadly this latest make-over looks like GM hasn't a clue what to do with SAAB!

Hornbag
07-06-2005, 05:13 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AXLE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> DAMN YOU GM!!!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!!<p> *Falls to knees and begins pounding ground with fists*</TD></TR></TABLE><p>lmao...<p>The inside looks vurtually the same, just new units that someone said were GM'z...but lest face it...this car needs more than a face lift...i know they lack the money or wateva GM are saying, but sometimes someone just has to say it...it needs a re-design <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Still, i actually like the update... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>

Blob
07-06-2005, 10:00 AM
on page 3 the lights don't have the bit of chrome to separate the indicator with the light, and at the back there is no white line.<p><br>Looks better like IMO, but it's not brilliant<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Blob at 2:44 AM 7/7/2005</i>

Nick
07-06-2005, 11:07 AM
The thing I have never liked about the 9-5 is the transition from the c-pillar to the deck...actually, the entire look of the greenhouse for that matter...but I really do think this may be a chop....

Roadster44
07-06-2005, 05:51 PM
Now it reminds me of a Toyota Corolla and VW Jetta rear end.

saabish
07-07-2005, 01:27 AM
I've seen 3 9-5 phase 3 this week :) Though all 3 of them had camo on the front (but none on the back) :( <br>I saw a few things that gives more credability to the GMinside pictures:<br>The headlight had som "metal" in it and I think i saw something that looked like the metal thing whick surrounds the headlights on the GMi pictures.<br>These testing viechles also had a very big grill in the front (looked like an Audi A6 on distance), but this was due to that the had remvoed the saab chrome in the grill <br><IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

piokor
07-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Some more spy pics that include the Wagon and the Interior:<p><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%205%20ii.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net...i.JPG</A><br><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%204%20ii.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net...i.JPG</A><br><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%206%20ii.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net...i.JPG</A><p>Story that goes along with the pics:<br><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2005/07/spy_stories_iii.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net....html</A>

Nurburgring
07-24-2005, 10:59 AM
Some more more spy pics( cameraphone-taken)<br><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%20-%202.JPG" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%203.JPG" BORDER="0"><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/20069502b.jpg" BORDER="0"><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/9-5revamp.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>Source= trolhattansaab.net

nismo
07-24-2005, 10:59 AM
I think its a nice improvement... I knew that silver one wasn't 100% for real. I wonder what the front will end up looking like.

autodanse
07-24-2005, 12:38 PM
wow, that newest set looks very aggressive. the bottom fascia looks a bit overdone, though

Bass-o-Matic
07-26-2005, 01:24 PM
IMO, it's beginning to look like the latest facelifted Saturn ION front end... rather unfortunate.<p><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/gallery/index.jsp?viewme=3&nav=120&starthere=0" BORDER="0">

DoMiNo
07-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Bottom intakes/integrated foglamps seem straight from the Audi A3, too.

Ascariss
07-26-2005, 11:44 PM
the front is fine, it's the rear now that worries me, it looks so plain and boring. at least it was different in the pre facelifted car.

Hornbag
07-27-2005, 03:52 AM
They have kept the back really simple, IMO thats a two sieded blessing. It looks clean and somewhat a little bit agressive, but where has the Saab gone?<p>The front on the other hand look great!!! But i actually prefered the silver ones postes earlier...but the headlights are just so much nicer <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"><p>The inside, is well...the same, and ugly. Im not a fan of it, they should have done something a little more revolutionary with it (despite lack of cash). And the front bumper is a little over-cooked. <p>But this is a design that IMO, grows fast! Good job Saab (and/or GM)

CosworthKid
07-27-2005, 08:56 AM
Front looks ok but i still dont like the un-adventerous rear end.At first the rear looked like a MK1 Toyota Avensis but now it's starting to look a bit BMW 3-series.Either way if i were to vote for a Swedish brand id definately go for Volvo:great cars and very distinctive

Mr.Saab
07-28-2005, 05:48 AM
Man im so glad i have the current Saab 9-5 its so much better than this ugly face lift. What is saab thinking? God bless the 9-3 sport Combi is just so good looking, thats the car that will save saab from going under for a couple of more years.

thedesigner
07-30-2005, 04:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>EleanorGT</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some more more spy pics( cameraphone-taken)<br><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%20-%202.JPG" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/The%209-5%203.JPG" BORDER="0"><br>Source= trolhattansaab.net</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Are we sure that's not the the restyled 9-2x... Something's a bit off. The angle of the bumper seam where it runs towards the lamp is identical to the restyled impreza & current saab 9-2; not too diff. than the 9-5. Though the upper-most character line on the 9-5 extends beyond the front wheel well... in these it does not. Despite the second shot looking hacked and matted those wheels look awfully 9-2ish. The white 9-5 (real) mule (not posted here) in EleanorGT's post has a bogus valance that I think will resemble the 9-2 refresh. By the way. Speaking of which, the 9-5 lower valance is a TL rip-off (but good looking) and the rear looks like the new jetta and A4 had a miscarriage called the s40. <p><br><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/20069502b.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net...b.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.automotiverhythms.com/images/td_2005audia4_7lg.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.automotiverhythms.c...g.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.autosydeportes.com/novedades/salones/Detroit2005/images/VW%20Jetta%201.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autosydeportes.com/...1.jpg</A><p><br><A HREF="http://johneagleacura.com/images/Picture/2004/March/Acura_TL_silver_frontside.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://johneagleacura.com/imag...e.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2365/2006saab954tf.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img119.imageshack.us/im...f.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://www.jmtech.fi/volvo_s40_hf.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.jmtech.fi/volvo_s40_hf.jpg</A><p><br><i>Modified by thedesigner at 4:16 PM 7/30/2005</i><p><br><i>Modified by thedesigner at 4:17 PM 7/30/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by thedesigner at 7:46 PM 7/30/2005</i>

Hornbag
07-31-2005, 02:32 AM
No its a 9-5, im sure...

tagomago
08-02-2005, 12:46 PM
Apparently GM had some left over Cadillac Seville roofs to put to use. YUCK!

soarer
08-08-2005, 02:37 AM
spy pics of the 9-5 wagon version <p>

Andre
08-08-2005, 09:01 AM
we need the urls ???

soarer
08-08-2005, 09:59 AM
Here are the pics of the wagon version<p><A HREF="http://img280.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp09377rc.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img280.imageshack.us/my...c.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://img280.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp09365nk.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img280.imageshack.us/my...k.jpg</A><br>

zoo_b
08-08-2005, 08:14 PM
Goodness, what are they doing to this car? An all-new replacement can't come sooner.

Omar
08-09-2005, 10:32 AM
Saab aren't in a strong financial position, so a facelift has to come before the all-new model.<p>BTW, I quite like it!!! The rear is a little bland, but I still think it's got a bit of character

Reppu
08-10-2005, 01:45 AM
The clearer the pics, the less i like it. I still think that including the lights inside the chrome grille is a fantastic idea to evolve Saab designs. However, i think that the lights should be square, and not rounded on the inner side. That solution alone destroys the whole thing.

Dahlis
08-10-2005, 06:54 AM
The facelift looks ok in my opinion. But a replacement must come soon the model is getting old and the only new real saab to have come out lately is the 9-3 estate. Time for gm to get out the wallet and fund a real replacement that is not a facelifted gm relic like the other so called saabs that have been marketed in northa america.

Mr.Saab
08-11-2005, 03:28 AM
i dont know why but the new saab 9-5 reminds me of the old Toyota avensis both the front and the rear.<p>heres some pics:<p><IMG SRC="http://www.arachne.cz/toISO-8859-2.apm/dir/www.auto-leas.cz/pobocky/auta/av.JPG" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.teamdigital.dk/billed_bil_kenth/Toyota_Avensis_4_stor.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>you be the judge

Charger
08-27-2005, 07:00 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/01.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br>source: trollhattansaab

Redline
08-27-2005, 07:13 AM
The grills by the headlights seem quite unecessary. I'm not so sure that I like this, it isn't the Saab I'm used to. Maybe more pictures will change my mind, but right now I don't know that I like this.

DoMiNo
08-27-2005, 08:36 AM
SO messy!!! I hate how the leading edge of the hood protrudes out over the headlights. Ick! <p>Funny part is, I can see myself seeing one in person and thinking it's cool, because it's different. SO I dunno.

Tidal
08-27-2005, 09:11 AM
Looks like a woman with too much make-up on. An attractive, midle aged swedish woman, one that i would date/drive, but ooooh... too much make-up.

Nodnarb
08-27-2005, 09:50 AM
Call me crazy, but I actually like this. The inside though, from the pics that were around here some where, is questionable. Why on earth they had to change the Saab radio for the corporate GM head unit is beyond me. Well, so long as it gets NightPannel, I guess it will be alright. Oh, by the way, aren't these official pics?

LSS_C6
08-28-2005, 05:08 PM
What a disapointness!! Shame on you SAAB! Such a great car-maker like you ruin such a beautifull car!

AM2K
08-28-2005, 06:10 PM
You can carry on talking about it in the new cars section. The link below will take you to the new thread:<p><A HREF="http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=16547" TARGET="_blank">http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=16547</A>

knihc2008
05-17-2006, 05:31 PM
Forgive me if this is a repost<p> <IMG SRC="http://server3.uploadit.org/files/yagobal-BryanNesbitt.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-images/media/1-may17-saab.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>source: leftlanenews

Ascariss
05-17-2006, 05:41 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> scary stuff, but <u>my</u> 9-5 is almost identical to this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> It looks great, I want one. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

knihc2008
05-17-2006, 06:02 PM
You've seen the 9-5? I agree, those drawings look bloody amazing.

Ascariss
05-17-2006, 06:50 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> sorry I forgot one word, my. The chop I was doing for the contest, mine is almost identical.

knihc2008
05-17-2006, 07:13 PM
Haha oooh okay. My drawing for that contest was identical to these drawings too and I figured someone else would photoshop it better anyway :P

Designo
05-17-2006, 08:10 PM
This car looks very bizarre right now!<p>

nismo
05-17-2006, 08:19 PM
That looks HOTT <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> .

Speedster S
05-17-2006, 08:37 PM
If SAAB builds it they will come.

brownieholic
05-17-2006, 11:41 PM
Are those official sketches? It looks really influenced by the Aero X concept.

Gian86
05-18-2006, 12:04 AM
Looks like Saab is making a comeback soon!!!<br>I also think this upcoming 9-5 would be part of GM's Zeta platform.

DrPetrus
05-18-2006, 01:12 AM
Sorry guys, I fail to see what is so special about the drawing in regard to the upcoming final product. For sure the drawing looks great but once it has gone through the GM corporate grind it will look nothing special. I can't imagine that those huge wheels, the sloping upper window line, the huge air intakes below the headlights or the boxiness of the front will remain as they are. Traces of these traits will probably be there but toned down, so that every time I look at this car I will be reminded of what could and should have been. It happens with every car in every company. Possibly, the rear might be the result of some progressive thinkin because it looks like a hatchback. Could it be, in this size and class? Will it be allowed?<br>Come to think of it, there are one company that is the exception to the rule. BMW has had the guts to produce the cars that the designers imagined not what the executives believed that the buyers wanted. Sure Bangle has been bashed alot but the fact remains that BMW is doing good business in contrast to it's competitors. Coincidense? I think not.<br>I'm rambling I know. I'm sorry. It's just that the (lack of) development of SAAB is a sore spot of mine. SAAB will have to produce some amazing cars before I aknowledge any competence at all in GM.<br>

geary
05-18-2006, 02:01 AM
I'll join the line and consider my contest entry (the front especially looks alot like it).<p><A HREF="http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8160/saab955ov.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img239.imageshack.us/im...v.jpg</A>

Nurburgring
05-18-2006, 05:27 AM
If Saab starts to influence their designs on the Aero-X Concept, Im telling you they will look bloody amazing!

saabish
05-18-2006, 10:17 AM
The Gm boss said that the new 9-5 will share the front with the Aero-X Concept. The 9-3 aswell....<br>In 2007 phase 2 of 9-3 will be at display and it's said that it will have the same front as Aero-x or at least Aero-x:ish.

Ascariss
05-18-2006, 10:28 AM
Hmm, not so sure now?<p><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2005/09" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2005/09</A>/ about 2/3 down the page.<p>From the Saab Museum apparently......<p><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/sketch1.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/sketch1-thumb.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><p><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/sketch2.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/sketch2-thumb.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><br>click the images for larger views.

VexedandGlorious
05-18-2006, 11:39 AM
yeah i herd that too, apperantly the 9-3 or 9-5 is in its clay model stage for 2010( i cant remeber which one was in that motortrend with the aero x)<br>those sketchs are sweet though, the first one reminds me of m old design for a new 9-3...interesting

knihc2008
05-18-2006, 04:53 PM
As much as I love those first sketches, Saab needes something radically Scandanavian like the second sketch to make a comeback.

the1
06-28-2006, 01:02 AM
<A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/images/9-5/AMScover%209-5x.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net...x.jpg</A><p>Source<br><A HREF="http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2006/06/that_95x_cover.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.trollhattansaab.net....html</A>

Porschefan
06-28-2006, 10:53 AM
Looks fairly chubby to me. This resembles a C-130 jumbo-transport plane more than the Viggens that SAAB shows in its current advertisements.

Ascariss
06-28-2006, 11:02 AM
Whoever made the chop didn't spend much time on it, lots of the front is messy and rushed.

the1
06-28-2006, 11:30 AM
It's certainly not a Huckfeldt chop. Not too trust worthy either.

CosworthKid
08-09-2006, 12:07 PM
<A HREF="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/202223/the_futures_orange_for_new_saab_95.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/n....html</A>

protocatcher
08-09-2006, 12:19 PM
Thats a chop based on a Alfa 159 !!!!!!!<br>Both the sedan and SW<p><A HREF="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//saab952.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//saab952.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//saab95.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//saab95.jpg</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by protocatcher at 12:26 PM 8/9/2006</i>

CosworthKid
08-09-2006, 01:10 PM
Hehe, well since it came from AutoExpress i didnt even comment on it, far from the most reliable source. Looks interesting though and whoever did those chops spent more time doing so than the rest of the mags "gems"

the1
08-09-2006, 02:18 PM
Hideous... but it's from Autoexpress, so thank God it won't look like this. I'm still waiting for Huckfeldt's interpretation.

protocatcher
08-09-2006, 02:37 PM
I guess AE took the chops from swedish magazine Teknikens Värld. <br>They had those ugly chops 2 weeks ago .

Ascariss
08-09-2006, 02:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>protocatcher</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess AE took the chops from swedish magazine Teknikens Värld. <br>They had those ugly chops 2 weeks ago . </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think AE and Teknikens Värld are from the same publishing company or owned by the same company, so it makes sense for the pictures to appear in AE, even the logo from the swedish mag is similar to AE, as seen here<p><A HREF="http://www.isaab.net/upload/9-5_2008.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.isaab.net/upload/9-5_2008.JPG</A>

Porschefan
08-09-2006, 06:08 PM
I actually like this a lot other than that black rear bumper. I like the front design, as well as the taillights from the Aero-X.

CosworthKid
08-09-2006, 06:28 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I think AE and Teknikens Värld are from the same publishing company or owned by the same company, so it makes sense for the pictures to appear in AE, even the logo from the swedish mag is similar to AE, as seen here<p><A HREF="http://www.isaab.net/upload/9-5_2008.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.isaab.net/upload/9-5_2008.JPG</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Cant see the logo on that pic u uploaded but AutoExpress has same "Logo" as AutoBild as well as a bunch of other mags from different countries. Im just wondering why AutoBild is sooo reliable yet AutoExpress isnt

Ascariss
08-09-2006, 06:32 PM
i think the magazine CAR is linked with autobild, I've seen huckfeldts chops in CAR before while never in AE. The picture i posted has similar if not identical font type as AE uses.

Max Power
08-11-2006, 10:25 AM
It is not nice. I don't like the front and the back.

Ace of Spades
08-11-2006, 12:28 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Max Power</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is not nice. I don't like the front and the back.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Oh, come on! Don't take it seriously, it's a photoshop!<p>But, wait, seeing the facelifted current version 9-5... oh my god, GM, do something smart with Saab... please!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">