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Reppu
12-20-2005, 12:32 AM
As announced yesterday, F1 World Champion Fernando Alonso has signed a contract to drive for McLaren in 2007, 08 and 09 seasons. I think he did all right, because McLaren is a real institution in F1, they are always competitive, whereas Renault is more like a flower of one day, as we say here in Spain. For sure they will win championships together.<p>Just one side comment. Ron Dennis said that Raikkonen was better than Alonso, and now he contracts him to probably take Kimi's seat in '07? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> The truth always see the light <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> . Maybe Dennis is tired of Kimi breaking cars and getting drunk in his spare time, maybe he prefers a real commited professional. End of my biased side comment.

Ascariss
12-20-2005, 01:28 AM
No surprise here, but then once schumi leaves F1, yes it will happen, well he might stick around and do work for a team perhaps, but once he leaves, rest assured the other drivers will fight it out for the championship and although mclaren is good, JPM will eventually want to win that championship if it doesn't happen in 06. which it won't lol.

DoMiNo
12-20-2005, 03:56 AM
Sung like a true Spaniard, Reppu <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0">

velsatis
12-20-2005, 05:41 AM
I would just disagree of you on the comments over Raikonnen, the guy is good like it or not<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cool.gif" BORDER="0">

Cozz
12-20-2005, 06:01 AM
Reppu is a hater. <p>The truth is yet to come. Ron didn't go to Alonso. It was Alonso that went to Ron.<p>Ron is simply affraid of KR leaving to Ferrari. But if KR stays then Alonso is going to get owned all year long. Alonso doesn't drive fast, only when he needs to. KR drives fast as hell all year long even when it doesn't matter. You can bet the farm that Alonso has his work set out for him.

Reppu
12-21-2005, 12:54 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reppu is a hater. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't think i understand that. I'm usually respectful to everyone and everything. <p>Except in this case, but i already admitted that my opinion is biased <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> . And i say why: because a world champion deserves, at least, recognition and respect, and Alonso received very little of that in McLarensland (jealousy?) and, i might add, here in the forum. Also, i don't think i said any lie about KR, it's all public knowledge.<p>As you say, time will tell past 2006 season (i don't think Alonso has a chance next season due to the car), but i don't think Dennis will want both guys in the team. <p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>velsatis</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would just disagree of you on the comments over Raikonnen, the guy is good like it or not </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, he is fast as hell, but to be World Champion you need way more than that. Montoya is also fast...so what? You need to take care of your car, know when not to take risks, etc. Is the brain that makes a world champion IMO, given you are fast enough and have a good car, and at that respect Kimi just cannot compete with Fernando. Also, i have a feeling that Fernando works harder.

pcread
12-21-2005, 01:19 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> Is the brain that makes a world champion IMO, given you are fast enough and have a good car, and at that respect Kimi just cannot compete with Fernando. Also, i have a feeling that Fernando works harder.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Alonso isn't that much faster than Kimi. Just look at the points Kimi lost through technical problems that weren't his fault (unlike Montoya). The championship would have been a lot more exciting if the Mercedes McLaren had been more reliable.

Reppu
12-21-2005, 03:56 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pcread</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Alonso isn't that much faster than Kimi. Just look at the points Kimi lost through technical problems that weren't his fault (unlike Montoya). The championship would have been a lot more exciting if the Mercedes McLaren had been more reliable.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Alonso is NOT faster than Kimi (but not much slower for that matters), but i think that he is definitely an overall better F1 driver, and that involves sooo many things apart from being fast. That's my point, as simple as that.<p>Without reliability problems, Kimi might have won the championship, simply because his car was much faster than any other. BUT, Alonso would have been much less conservative, so maybe it would not have been as easy to Kimi as some seem to believe. We'll never now, Alonso is the Champion and nothing can change that.<p>No one said a thing about Alonso-McLaren deal. What do you people think about it?

Superfresa
12-21-2005, 05:13 AM
Chill up boys. We all know that Red Bull will win next year.<p>I would like to see Kimi, Alonso and Montoya sharing team though although I suspect this is not what is going to happen. But wouldn't it be cool?

velsatis
12-21-2005, 05:51 AM
Raikonnen is ages faster than Alonso, Reliability of the car gave the cHampionship to Alonso, plus the tires. If you saw and remenber the races, do you remenber how many times Raikonnen and Montoya where out due to Tire problems?????Now Alonso which had the same tires by the way, do you now how many times he was out for tires????None, which made me suspect of Michelin helping out Renault, I mean, its a much important business partner than Mercedes plus its french.<br>Just think a litle bit about it, isn't it strange? Same tires but only Mercedes are out with problems of tires and the one in Renault breathing health????

Superfresa
12-21-2005, 06:00 AM
Nah. That makes no sense really.<p>Maybe the way the maclarens are made makes the tires wear out more - that would be more logical than they were sticking up for Renault. Or maybe Alonso was just more of a careful driver than Kimi and Montoya. Because That I know of, neither is exactly a light foot...<p>BUT it's pointless to say Maclaren would've won if this or that. The point is, Renault won, Alonso won, and they did it with hard work and they did it genuinely. In this sense I understand Reppu when he says maybe a little more respect for the winner would've been nice. After all he did win with his own merit and a more reliable car. Easy.<p>I wouldn't say Alonso is faster. I wouldn't say Kimi is faster. I would say they have different styles and different cars, that sometimes work sometimes dont work. I'm looking forward to the 2006 season because for once in years, F1 seems to be disputed... The battle Kimi, Alonso, Montoya, Toyota team should be interesting, damned rules aside.

Reppu
12-21-2005, 09:28 AM
My bet is a huge battle next year between Schumi and Kimi, with Alonso being competitive only from time to time. Yoiu know, i just don't trust R26, but i hope i'm wrong.<p>I'm really looking forward for next season, but i'm afraid races will be more boring now due to new rules<p>Today i've read some words from Ecclestone: "McLaren, knowing that Raikonnen is going to Ferrari, has done the right thing in hiring the best pilot of the moment" (i've read it in Spanish, so i don't know if it was properly translated from the original). He also implies that in fact it was Dennis going to Alonso, just to harm Briatore. I would say that ol' Bernie knows a thing or two about F1....

zwei Biere bitte
12-21-2005, 03:08 PM
I read that one disadvantage of Renault next year is that the chaisis will be engineered by a completely different company than the 2005 season, so there may be some problems there. <p>It would be interesting to see if Kimi goes to Ferrrari. If he does, than I wonder how this would affect MS- MS has always been the best driver on the team, with sort of a "sidekick" that isn't quite as good as him (Barichello, Massa). I'm just wondering how MS will drive if Kimi is the team mate, because then they both would be duking it out. <p>My $.02

Superfresa
12-21-2005, 03:51 PM
It will be fun! Schumi will not be #1 in Ferrari thats for sure, but I somewhat suspect he's retireing when Kimi gets there. He is 35and has been in F1 for ages.<p>The interesting thing will be the traditional mclaren-ferrari battle in the hands of Montoya and Kimi respectively. Even next year this battle should be interesting.

Cozz
12-22-2005, 06:01 AM
fact- Michelin did help Renault more than McLaren in 2004/2005.<p>fact- Ron cares for only one fast driver. Remember David? Not fast but Ron kept him for so many years. So why did he get Alonso so fast? Ron knows something we don't. Kimi is out of McLaren and Ron knows it.<p>fact- Shummy is out next year. Besides, Shummy will go down as the better driver in any team. How will it affect him when Kimi is in at the same time as Shummy? Kimi will destroy Shummy at any given day. Shummy is better off calling it quits in 2006.<p>

Reppu
12-22-2005, 09:24 AM
Remember Monaco GP '05? Which tyres performed best, McLaren's or Renault's? <p>It's dangerous to say that something's a fact if you've not been whitness, so i'll say that i just don't know. I really didn't see anything suspicious regarding the tyres, but as you know a F1 chassis can mistreat the tyres if taken to the performance extreme. Maybe that's the answer to many questions, but again, i don't have the magical key of truth, so everything that i state here is my own personal opinion on the subject. <p>On the other hand, let's not forget that Michelin is a french company, and we all know that frenchies tend to help each other......

Cozz
12-22-2005, 06:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember Monaco GP '05? Which tyres performed best, McLaren's or Renault's? <p>It's dangerous to say that something's a fact if you've not been whitness, so i'll say that i just don't know. I really didn't see anything suspicious regarding the tyres, but as you know a F1 chassis can mistreat the tyres if taken to the performance extreme. Maybe that's the answer to many questions, but again, i don't have the magical key of truth, so everything that i state here is my own personal opinion on the subject. <p>On the other hand, let's not forget that Michelin is a french company, and we all know that frenchies tend to help each other......</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Dude, are you nuts? Talking to me about F1 is like talking to Jesus about the Bible, LOL.<p>Michelin gave Renault patented suspension designs. Only Renault in 2004. I "think" Michelin offered it others in 2005. Renault had a full year to get the system right while others played with them this year. McLaren opted for a different setup on front and a "hybrid" on the rear. Meaning it wasn't to the full specs on the patent. Michelin also had other patents that Renault got first dibs on during testing. But thanks to the McLaren aero department, McLaren was able to get more out of Michelins rather than Renault. A race track that used tighter/ more turns was clearly fisible.

Reppu
12-24-2005, 02:06 AM
Hey Cozz, can you give us more infop on that suspension patent you talk about? Any link or something? And also, where do you get that kind of info from?

Cozz
12-24-2005, 06:45 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Cozz, can you give us more infop on that suspension patent you talk about? Any link or something? And also, where do you get that kind of info from?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Here you go...<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since late last year, Renault have been testing a new rear suspension system that originates from Michelin, a system called OPT - acronym for its French name, which translates to Optimum Contact Patch. Little information has been available on this system, and other than acknowledging its existence Renault and Michelin have been secretive on how OPT works and what gains could be made by it. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Source: <A HREF="http://scarbsf1.com/renault_opt/Renault_OPT.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://scarbsf1.com/renault_opt/Renault_OPT.htm</A><p>All I did was go to a search page and typed things like Michelin, Renualt, patent, f1.<p>The suspension was only one of them. I know Renault tested aero parts that was designed/patented by Michelin. These parts were like barge boards that control the flow of air around the tyres.

rman5001
12-24-2005, 12:43 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>fact- Ron cares for only one fast driver. Remember David? Not fast but Ron kept him for so many years. So why did he get Alonso so fast? Ron knows something we don't. Kimi is out of McLaren and Ron knows it.<p>fact- Shummy is out next year. Besides, Shummy will go down as the better driver in any team. How will it affect him when Kimi is in at the same time as Shummy? Kimi will destroy Shummy at any given day. Shummy is better off calling it quits in 2006.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't know about that one quick driver. Ron prizes the constructors championship almost as much if not more than the drivers championship and he knows that unless they have an absolutely dominant car he needs 2 top drivers. He got rid of DC precisely because he was a dissappointment and probably would have got rid of him sooner if there were better drivers on the market to be signed.<p>They signed Montoya expecting big things from him, to partner with KR. He brought in Mansell a few years ago when he thought Mansell had some race left in him to partner with Hakkinen (and got rid of him when it was clear that he didn't). Then of course there's the 80's with Prost/Lauda and the ultimate combination of Prost/Senna.<p>Ron's an egomanic. Its why people despise him and probably what drives him to be as successful as he has been. Nothing would make him happier than having both KR and FA together at a time when they should have the fastest car in the field. With that combo he would have a legitimate shot at the prize that was denied to him in 88 winning ALL the races.

rman5001
12-24-2005, 12:47 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Here you go...<p><br>Source: <A HREF="http://scarbsf1.com/renault_opt/Renault_OPT.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://scarbsf1.com/renault_opt/Renault_OPT.htm</A><p>All I did was go to a search page and typed things like Michelin, Renualt, patent, f1.<p>The suspension was only one of them. I know Renault tested aero parts that was designed/patented by Michelin. These parts were like barge boards that control the flow of air around the tyres.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It seems odd that they would patent this if it was a huge advantage. In order to patent it (unless its different in the EU) you have to detail exactly how it works thereby giving your competition the opportunity to learn from your work and/or make small changes to create a "new" design. I would imagine that since Renault/Michelin wouldn't have access to the other teams it would be very difficult to enforce the patent.

Cozz
12-24-2005, 02:05 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rman5001</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>It seems odd that they would patent this if it was a huge advantage. In order to patent it (unless its different in the EU) you have to detail exactly how it works thereby giving your competition the opportunity to learn from your work and/or make small changes to create a "new" design. I would imagine that since Renault/Michelin wouldn't have access to the other teams it would be very difficult to enforce the patent.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Patents happen time to time. McLaren patented a faster shifting tranny in 2002(?). GoodYear patented a certian tyre compound in the 90's before BStone came around.

Reppu
12-25-2005, 01:53 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rman5001</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With that combo he would have a legitimate shot at the prize that was denied to him in 88 winning ALL the races.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, i remember that year. Ferrari was sooo different then, they were the eternal #2. They only managed to win a single race with M.Alboretto.

Reppu
01-02-2006, 12:23 AM
To heat up the thread a little bit.<p>"Credit where credit is due," he said. "Fernando and the Renault team did a great job in 2005. They brought a good package which was reliable for the first race and did the job while our drivers [Kimi Raikkonen and Juan Pablo Montoya] psychologically overreacted to problems at the first round of the world championships and definitely didn't respond to the pressure. It was all a bit frustrating for us because in most seasons 10 race wins would have been good enough to clinch the world championship quite early in the season. The trouble was this time there was no other team taking points off Fernando and Renault when our cars failed to finish."<p>Ron Dennis to The Guardian<br>