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View Full Version : subie wants toyota hybrid tech.


CarPenter
05-14-2005, 03:02 AM
Subaru May Switch to Toyota Hybrid System<br>Date Posted 05-13-2005 <p>source edmunds.com<p>TOKYO  Subaru is delaying its first gasoline-electric hybrid car, originally due next year, reportedly because it is considering buying hybrid systems directly from Toyota. <p>Subaru is too small to be able to justify production of its own system and can't sufficiently reduce production costs, according to a report in Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun newspaper. Subaru would therefore scrap its own system, and roll out a Toyota-powered car in 2008. In return, Subaru's parent Fuji would supply Toyota with advanced lithium-ion batteries for use in hybrids. <p>The move also suggests General Motors' rival hybrid system is unsuitable for Subaru. GM has a shareholder stake in Subaru and has recently denied reports it, too, is getting into bed with Toyota on hybrids. GM is jointly developing a hybrid system with DaimlerChrysler, but this is focused initially more on larger vehicles with engine displacements of greater than 4.5 liters. <p>Subaru's choice could be more to do with timing  Toyota's system is available now, whereas the GM-DaimlerChrysler system is still under development. <p>Whatever the reason, the hybrid marketplace is starting to resemble the video-format wars of the 1980s. Toyota's system is emerging as the "VHS" of the hybrid powertrain market  and rival systems such as Honda's or GM-DaimlerChrysler's risk becoming the equivalent of "Beta." <p>What this means to you: Toyota gambled on hybrids years ago with the original Prius. Now it's getting the payback as other automakers sign lucrative license deals. The consumer will have a few hybrid options to choose from, but the Toyota system is breaking away at this point. <p><br>soooo basically subie doesnt wanna wait for big brother GM to supply it with hybrid tech. and is gonna buy from toyota, i really hate to speculate this but toyota will buy GM within 3 years ! the writting is on the wall ! toyota made more than all domestic 3 combined in the first quarter of this year, toyota has between 13 and 20 billion in the bank with very little debt at all , gm has 15 billion in the bank but way too much debt and infrastruture and mainly retiree's to take care of, toyota does not take care of there retiree's the gov does in japan. also toyota got smart and is opening all new plants in canada where they have a national health care system in place and toyota wont have to take care of them ! the sooner we have a national health care plan in america the better ! a= for better economics in the auto industry and also all business that offer any kind of healthcare for there workers !

Naga Royal Guard
05-14-2005, 08:15 AM
why would toyota want to buy gm tho?

CarPenter
05-14-2005, 11:55 AM
because toyota wants to be number one and will do anything to achieve there goals....

knicks125
05-14-2005, 12:03 PM
toyota doesn't need gm and can still become #1

Tidal
05-14-2005, 12:05 PM
Toyota doesn't need to buy Gm to achieve their goal of being number 1. Is that their goal, btw? I would guess profitability and consumer satisfaction are better goals, and GM is behind them on both counts.

knicks125
05-14-2005, 12:23 PM
Agreed...<p>Toyota has no intention to buy GM, and at its current growth, it never will ever brush the idea of buying GM...

anonms
05-14-2005, 01:17 PM
Toyota doesn't buy brands-- Toyota creates their own.<p>Rumours of Subaru joining Nissan in using Toyota's system have been around for quite a while...

KebabGud
05-14-2005, 03:16 PM
toyotas will not buy GM..<br>toyota wants GM to stay GM.. <br>toyota is going to pas GM in less then 3 year.. but not buy them..<p>Toyota has only bought 2 other car makers..<br>Hino and daihatsu (50,1% of Hino and 51,4% of Daihatsu)<br>(Hino is a truk maker)<p>and one can almost say toyota saved them both :P<br>

taskbearer
05-15-2005, 12:16 PM
Subaru made a wise choice, saves them time and effort so they can focus on their core models better. I myself am weiry of the much publicised Daimler Chrysler/GM hybrid system. Mercedes has been testing the system on the S-class with a V8 diesel engine producing 270hp combined and the gains have been disapponting at most. Despite of the more complex and expensive drivetrain, it still produced worse milleage than BMW's more powerful 272hp twin-turbo diesel, which is cheaper than their petrol V8 engine. <p>If the system continues to cause them troubles at a time where they can save the sweat and buy a licence, I won't be surprised if they ended up buying toyota's technology. Ford was smart for licencing the technology. <p>Toyota now has the image a saint for producing hybrids and even ramping hybrid production, but let's not forget that they are building a new truck factory in the US with production capacity that would dwarf any of their hybrid advanture. Talk about ILLUSION!!.

spwolf
05-15-2005, 03:19 PM
lol taskbearer - it is not illusion, Toyota is one of the CAFE leaders... Toyota is not "ramping up" hybrid production, it has trippled it from last year.<p>Not only that, but Toyota also makes the cleanest diesel in the world (Avensis with DCAT) as well as cleanest petrol engine in the world (Prius hybrid).<p>Of course they are producing the SUV's, they are an business corporation that wants to make MONEY as its primary goal, but they are also industry leader at saving the earth.<p>GM and DCX have beeing trying to discredit Toyota by throwing their SUV sales back at them, but argument is quite funny since their CAFE mesurments are much lower...

anonms
05-15-2005, 06:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Toyota now has the image a saint for producing hybrids and even ramping hybrid production, but let's not forget that they are building a new truck factory in the US with production capacity that would dwarf any of their hybrid advanture. Talk about ILLUSION!!. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Illusion? What illusion?<p>Remeber when Toyota unveiled the FTX concept? All signs point to hybrid Toyota trucks.

taskbearer
05-16-2005, 12:02 AM
OOps I stand corrected, I forgot they had to pay the bills for their hybrid research. That was a slight ignorant opinion on my part. <p>Well it turned out to be one of the most rewarding investments in automotive history. <p>Concerning CAFE, I can see why they've been leading it for so long, cause they make some of the most frugal petrol engines on earth, I think they should be among the top if not on in Europe also. Take the Aygo for instant, that car acheives a prius.....oh I mean diesel rivalling 61.4mpg in EU cycle. Thats the most frugal petrol engine in the world and it costs lass than half the price of the Prius. The buyers of this car would surely laugh at the pump. <p>I can't wait to see what Subaru does with their Hybrids. I think the Legacy would be first in line because it suits its image better than the brute impreza. This news means that the more licences Toyota issues, the lower the prices of hybrids, the more fuel efficient we get.<p>

CarPenter
05-16-2005, 12:49 AM
true but more efficent ? and freaking costly upfront and later on ! anyone know how much the replacement batteries cost in the toyota ??????????? anyone know how long they will last ???????????????? major major unanswered questions ! will this battery pack replacement take away every cent you saved in the 75k miles u drove it ??? most likely not !

CarPenter
05-16-2005, 12:57 AM
also one more thing i truly wish cafe=real world driving, seems no one, not any car mag or the consumers are getting the epa certified levels of mpg that toyota says the pirus achieve's ! but we also dont drive with a extremely warmed up engine and never once go over 52 mph (dont quote me i forgot but it aint 55mph) like the epa does while certifying all cars, the sooner they redo there mpg figures (epa ) the freaking better, untill then toyota and honda get lots and lots of free publicity, something gm missed the boat on and bob lutz even made that public statement go figure !