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eightballsidepocket
04-21-2005, 02:46 PM
Have any of you seen the latest Car and Driver, Motor Trend, or Detoit News tests/comparisons with the M45 included?<p>The M45 got ranked #1 in a head to head test against a Lexus GS430 in Motor Trend, and in C and D it came out #1 against a Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Caddie, and a Jag.<br><IMG SRC="http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/462005123323.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><A HREF="http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9391" TARGET="_blank">http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...=9391</A><br>

Naga Royal Guard
04-21-2005, 03:06 PM
just like the G35/coupe before it :)

fubar
04-21-2005, 03:07 PM
Im glad. The M is a phenominal car inside and out. Technology wise, its equal if not better than the competition. It seems to have everything you would want in a midsize luxury sedan. Watch out world. Infiniti will continue to top the charts with their future offerings. BTW the 5-series tested was the base model and was heavily underpowered to offer any real competition.

anonms
04-21-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm really not surprised the M beat the GS, especially considering the inherent nature of the Lexus and the preferences of MT.<p><br>But I'm surprised that C/D ranked the GS 3rd. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> And the RL 2nd. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> I guess they're shifting from Honda lovers to Nissan lovers, huh.<p>But the M is terrific, IMO. Let's wait for the sales figures to come in before we start saying that the M has unseated any of its competitors.

fubar
04-21-2005, 05:30 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iHug Trees</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Let's wait for the sales figures to come in before we start saying that the M has unseated any of its competitors.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nissan press release<p>All-New Infiniti M Outperforming Sales Expectations [Apr. 6, 05]<p><br>M sales up 1,100 percent versus March 2004; Well on pace to meet yearly sales target<p><br>The all-new 2006 Infiniti M sedan, which went on sale February 23rd, posted its first full-month sales of 2,220 units for March, more than double the first months sales goal. The new M, which is offered in both V8-powered M45 and V6-equipped M35 models, has also garnered exceptional reviews from the leading automotive publications  including a first place ranking for the M45 out of eight competitive mid-size luxury sport sedans in the May 2005 issue of Car and Driver magazine.<p>Our marketing campaign positions the new M as a vehicle Designed to Outperform, and with this strong initial launch success it certainly is doing just that, said Mark Igo, vice president and general manager, Infiniti Division. Our dealers garnered advance orders 40% over our target for the all-new M thanks to our extensive joint pre-launch marketing efforts. All indications show we are on pace to meet our yearly sales target and add another chapter to the Infiniti new model launch success story in the recent tradition of the G35, FX and QX56 and our record sales in calendar year 2004.<br><br>The all-new 2006 Infiniti M is offered in five models: the M35 (V6 rear-wheel drive), M35 Sport (V6 rear-wheel drive with Rear Active Steer and 19-inch wheels and tires), M35x AWD (V6 all-wheel drive), M45 (V8 rear-wheel drive) and M45 Sport (V8 rear-wheel drive with Rear Active Steer and 19-inch wheels and tires).<p>Winning comparison tests also extended to the 2006 M35 last month when it bested five other V6-powered mid-size luxury sport sedans in a Motor Trend article appearing in their March 2005 issue.<br>

SV
04-21-2005, 05:41 PM
well, good for infiniti, although i'm a toyota/lexus fan <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> i wonder how the GS will do sales-wise

anonms
04-21-2005, 05:52 PM
I meant sales number in comparison with the competition, not with the previous generation....... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0">

IcedG35
04-24-2005, 11:50 AM
The M didn't really win the GS vs M in Motor Trend. They never gave a winner, they just said that both cars were good at different things: "For the buyer in search of a great looking, dependable sedan with superb fit and finish and reassuring driving characteristics, the new GS is a sound choice. Based on recent experience, it's likely the Lexus will retain excellent resale value as well. But if you're seeking a true driver's car that encourages you to make excuses to hop behind the wheel to look for the long way home, the M34 is the right choice here"

Cozz
04-25-2005, 04:20 PM
I don't believe half of that crap. Why do they compare V6's with V8's?<p>I think the writers are brain dead when they drive those cars.<p>Infiniti M45 Sport:<br>"<b>Lows: Sport package gives a firm ride</b>"<br>Gee George, you think?<p>And why was the Jag on 8th place? Most of the reason was because it's old. Now, is there a reason for that? It still had a better interior than most others.<p>BMW 530i<br>"<b>The 530i's timed sprints to 60 mph and through the quarter were the slowest in the group,</b>"<br>Hmm... this normally happens when you have the smallest motor in the group. How about showing the V8?<p>This crap is rigged.

Uberwagon
04-25-2005, 07:46 PM
I left that issue of C&D at work so I'm not sure how valid this is:<p>In the most recent Automobile, the 545i and M45 tested were very far apart in price. Infiniti enjoyed a $9k difference base price and $11k as tested. That's a pretty big chasm. BMW's, as much as many of us love them, are expensive and are starting to be undercut by more serious competition. Having bought the previous 5, that $11k cash difference (before financing) for similar capabilities and amenities would sway me rather quickly (IMO).<p>Perhaps the 530i comparison might have been more real world, given the price? I don't know...<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

Dodger
04-25-2005, 07:48 PM
I agree. People will put up money for a nice car, but if they can get a similar vehicle for $11K less, why not?

Cozz
04-25-2005, 08:04 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dodger</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree. People will put up money for a nice car, but if they can get a similar vehicle for $11K less, why not?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>They are not similar in any way. First, Infinity is a label not a brand. Nissan knows it would have a harder time selling them under a Nissan brand. 2: you know that if a BMW is taken cared for it will have value 50 years from now unlike Infiniti. 3: they are not built the same. Infinity will have way more plastic clips and pop out panels and become loose over time unlike a solid built BMW. 4: It's a BMW backed with German history unlike Infinity that was a profit idea from the first day.<br>

ndjan
04-25-2005, 09:41 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>They are not similar in any way. First, Infinity is a label not a brand. Nissan knows it would have a harder time selling them under a Nissan brand. 2: you know that if a BMW is taken cared for it will have value 50 years from now unlike Infiniti. 3: they are not built the same. Infinity will have way more plastic clips and pop out panels and become loose over time unlike a solid built BMW. 4: It's a BMW backed with German history unlike Infinity that was a profit idea from the first day.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>First off, we're talking cars here, label or brand, the cars are <I>extremely</I> similar.<br>secondly, as far as depreciation, BMW's definitely do have a much better resale, but I seriously doubt there'll be a big difference 50 years down the line.<br>Thirdly, I've sat in both, and I've gotta say that they are similar in interior quality. But check your facts, dude, and you'll see that infiniti is obliterating BMW in initial quality, short term reliability, and long term reliability.<br>fourth, history or not, Bmw's may have been around for a lot longer, but I highly doubt BMW wasn't conceived as a profit idea, particularly when BMW started out with aircraft and then motorcycles.<p>But the <B>fact</B> is that the m45 offers a lot more for a lot less. It offers more quality and more reliability. The trade-off is that BMW offers a higher pedigree, which I guess will sway the materialistic, the superficial, and the overall show-offs.

knicks125
04-26-2005, 05:26 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ndjan</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>First off, we're talking cars here, label or brand, the cars are <I>extremely</I> similar.<br>secondly, as far as depreciation, BMW's definitely do have a much better resale, but I seriously doubt there'll be a big difference 50 years down the line.<br>Thirdly, I've sat in both, and I've gotta say that they are similar in interior quality. But check your facts, dude, and you'll see that infiniti is obliterating BMW in initial quality, short term reliability, and long term reliability.<br>fourth, history or not, Bmw's may have been around for a lot longer, but I highly doubt BMW wasn't conceived as a profit idea, particularly when BMW started out with aircraft and then motorcycles.<p>But the <B>fact</B> is that the m45 offers a lot more for a lot less. It offers more quality and more reliability. The trade-off is that BMW offers a higher pedigree, which I guess will sway the materialistic, the superficial, and the overall show-offs.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>well said ndjan, dodger, uberwagon, and I agree. I have had the opportunity to test drive many of these cars, and I must say hands down the M is one of the best in class; aside from the everything ndjan has pointed out, and dodger's and uberwagon's point being 11k less than the 5 series, while still offer similar if not better "final product", the whole design, execution, and styling of the car is almost flawless.<p>BTW, I also fully agree with ndjan's last paragraph <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Mindless T
04-26-2005, 11:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>They are not similar in any way. First, Infinity is a label not a brand. Nissan knows it would have a harder time selling them under a Nissan brand. 2: you know that if a BMW is taken cared for it will have value 50 years from now unlike Infiniti. 3: they are not built the same. Infinity will have way more plastic clips and pop out panels and become loose over time unlike a solid built BMW. 4: It's a BMW backed with German history unlike Infinity that was a profit idea from the first day.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>1. It's not a brand? Would you like to sue them for pretending to be something else?<br>2. LOL at 50 year resale value prediction...<br>3. 'Solid' doesn't mean better..That said YOU don't know how it's built.<br>4. History is of the brand is one the last thing that comes to any customers mind while looking for a new luxury sedan...<br>Other guys did a good job at explaining as well, now it's time to absorb the info Mr. Cozz...

Ascariss
04-26-2005, 11:38 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ndjan</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But check your facts, dude, and you'll see that infiniti is obliterating BMW in initial quality, short term reliability, and long term reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Uhm didn't the M45 just go on sale like last month or so, maybe febuary? Seeing as I just saw it at the dealers in mid april. If so how can it be beating the BMW in long term reliability? If it hasn't been tested and all parts are working, then ya, but that's not long term.<p>Merc, Jag, BMW and Audi are able to lure people into their showrooms just with their brand name. If C&D have to used a 530i because of price, then this test deson't prove anything. They do state they wanted to use the V8 from BMW, but sadly it was too expensive. <p>Until Infiniti starts making their own cars, and stops rebadging like Lexus has, they will always be 2nd class for me. Lexus did a nice move by not rebadging toyota's now, and guess what, it's the first time I really like the looks of the new lexi (lexuses).<p>Sorry, one test doesn't prove anything, I would wait for more tests. Shame none of the european mags can have a test like this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Here is the issue:<br><A HREF="http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf" TARGET="_blank">http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Ascariss at 11:50 AM 4/26/2005</i>

ndjan
04-26-2005, 12:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Uhm didn't the M45 just go on sale like last month or so, maybe febuary? Seeing as I just saw it at the dealers in mid april. If so how can it be beating the BMW in long term reliability? If it hasn't been tested and all parts are working, then ya, but that's not long term.<p>Merc, Jag, BMW and Audi are able to lure people into their showrooms just with their brand name. If C&D have to used a 530i because of price, then this test deson't prove anything. They do state they wanted to use the V8 from BMW, but sadly it was too expensive. <p>Until Infiniti starts making their own cars, and stops rebadging like Lexus has, they will always be 2nd class for me. Lexus did a nice move by not rebadging toyota's now, and guess what, it's the first time I really like the looks of the new lexi (lexuses).<p>Sorry, one test doesn't prove anything, I would wait for more tests. Shame none of the european mags can have a test like this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Here is the issue:<br><A HREF="http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf" TARGET="_blank">http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf</A><p><br><i>Modified by Ascariss at 11:50 AM 4/26/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>When I was talking about long term reliability, I was talking about infiniti as a brand. But I do suspect that when the initial quality results are in, the M will likely overcome the German brands. I have little doubt about that.<p>As far as rebadging, yes the infiniti is sold as a nissan in Japan, but keep in mind that is likely because of the prestige the nissan brand holds there. I'd liken the nissan as a rebadged infinit, and not the other way around. But that's just my opinion.<br>

nismo
04-26-2005, 01:51 PM
When did BMW become a the best in reliability? Have they ever received an award for their reliability? Infiniti has received many of these type of awards, going all the way back to the original Q45 & G20 days... In my opinion, the 5er may have better resale value, but at the end of the day which is the better all-around vehicle with the better value for your money?...the M . You can get a V8 M45 for the same price as V6 530i (if not less) and theres not one thing the 530i offers over the M35 much less the M45..<p>In the US Infinitis aren't rebadges so that point is not important to US buyers... in Japan Nissan is just as "prestigous" as BMW so they don't have to rebadge their top models. Audi and Lexus started as just a bagde and Lexus is just now becoming worldwide with Infiniti planning to do so soon too. You are entitled to your opinion, but practically speaking, the M in many ways is a better car-buy than the 5er. Most specs, prices, & tests seem to indicate that.<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 5:38 PM 4/26/2005</i>

Uberwagon
04-26-2005, 02:56 PM
I think the key fact that is being missed in this critique of C&D's article is one emblazened accross the cover: "$55,000." This piece was written with the express purpose of evaluating what you can get for $55 large. Since you just can't get a 545i for that, this is a very, very telling story.<p>This does not make this comparison meaningless at all: The number-one consideration of car buyers, even at the high end, is price. You can't compare a $65k car with a $50k one and expect it to be relevant or true to the car buying public's limited funds. <p>As a BMW 5 owner, I wish this new 5 was more competitive. But, given the huge performance difference between these cars (530 & M45), heritage or not, it's becoming harder to justify buying a BMW.

IcedG35
04-26-2005, 05:59 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Uberwagon</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the key fact that is being missed in this critique of C&D's article is one emblazened accross the cover: "$55,000." This piece was written with the express purpose of evaluating what you can get for $55 large. Since you just can't get a 545i for that, this is a very, very telling story.<p>This does not make this comparison meaningless at all: The number-one consideration of car buyers, even at the high end, is price. You can't compare a $65k car with a $50k one and expect it to be relevant or true to the car buying public's limited funds. <p>As a BMW 5 owner, I wish this new 5 was more competitive. But, given the huge performance difference between these cars (530 & M45), heritage or not, it's becoming harder to justify buying a BMW. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>i agree completely except for one thing...i priced out a 545i, an E350, and a GS430, and a M45 online and they were all right around $58-62,000, similarly equipped. the 545i was just at the 62000 mark, so while it was the most expenseive, i don't think it was out of the league of the other cars. also, the E350 was just as expensive as the 545i. i know these online pricing systems may be a little off, but it still seems like the 545 could've been in this group....the E500 is out of these other cars leauges.<p><br>basically, i agree wiht what you're saying, i just don't think CD executed their car choosing properly<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by MBcrazE at 6:19 PM 4/26/2005</i>

taskbearer
04-26-2005, 08:43 PM
Personally the Lexus is the most appealing car of the lot to me. Infinity might have come up with something sensible as an overall luxury vehicle, but to me lacks the emotional styling of the Lexus.<p>One can see that the japanese cars occupied the top spot mainly because of their higher value for money, and most especially they have stepped up their game to levels that scare the germans. IMO the germans should wake-up and stop asking such huge prices on their cars.

anonms
04-26-2005, 09:08 PM
I just like Lexus better because of its emphaisis on comfort. The rest are more of sporty vehicles with a dash of luxury to me.

knicks125
04-27-2005, 11:27 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MBcrazE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i priced out a 545i, an E350, and a GS430, and a M45 online and they were all right around $58-62,000, similarly equipped.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Are you sure about that range?<p>Options aside, here are MSRPs for the cars your priced:<p>545i - 55,800 (4.4L V8, 325hp)<br>E350 - 50,770 (3.5L V6, 268hp) - shouldn't count, it's got a v6<br>E500 - 58,520 (5.0L V8, 302hp) - I threw it in just to be fair, 8s vs. 8s<br>GS430 - 51,775 (4.3L V8, 300hp)<br>M45 - 46,750 (4.5L V8, 335hp)<p>Obviously from the above, the M is lower than all of the other ones tested, thousands lower. Obviously you can play around with all of the options, and they are still optional (thus they are options). MBcrazE, you made it sound like M's options are 5-10K more expensive than the options offered on other cars seen here. I didn't have enough time to price out everything but I can tell you that most options on most cars are about the same, I would be very surprised if options on asian models are more expensive than those of european competitors (although you made it sound like they are thus coming up with your similar price).<p>I am fairly sure that adding all similar options and packages on all cars beforementioned, M45 & GS430 will be lower than the two european competitors you priced (sorry E350 can't be included since it's got a v6, E500 to replace)

IcedG35
04-27-2005, 04:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Are you sure about that range?<p>Options aside, here are MSRPs for the cars your priced:<p>545i - 55,800 (4.4L V8, 325hp)<br>E350 - 50,770 (3.5L V6, 268hp) - shouldn't count, it's got a v6<br>E500 - 58,520 (5.0L V8, 302hp) - I threw it in just to be fair, 8s vs. 8s<br>GS430 - 51,775 (4.3L V8, 300hp)<br>M45 - 46,750 (4.5L V8, 335hp)<p>Obviously from the above, the M is lower than all of the other ones tested, thousands lower. Obviously you can play around with all of the options, and they are still optional (thus they are options). MBcrazE, you made it sound like M's options are 5-10K more expensive than the options offered on other cars seen here. I didn't have enough time to price out everything but I can tell you that most options on most cars are about the same, I would be very surprised if options on asian models are more expensive than those of european competitors (although you made it sound like they are thus coming up with your similar price).<p>I am fairly sure that adding all similar options and packages on all cars beforementioned, M45 & GS430 will be lower than the two european competitors you priced (sorry E350 can't be included since it's got a v6, E500 to replace)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>an M45 Sport, which is the comparable model, starts at 51,000. from there, the options that make it comparable such as NAV, quickly bring the price to the high 50s. an E350 similarly equipped is close to 62-65000, whereas the E500 almost reaches the mid 70s, which is why it isn't in this comparison. While there is DEFINITELY flaws to my method, take the time to actually price it out before you tell me I'm wrong.<br>The Japanese cars will always be cheaper for the same amount of stuff in them. While the E500 is way more expensive, all I'm saying is that the 545 isn't too expensive for this comparison.

knicks125
04-27-2005, 06:21 PM
Agreed...5 series is comparable...please accept my apology if I sounded too harsh in my earlier post<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Comrade
04-27-2005, 08:50 PM
Just wait for the 550i, hook it up with a sport package, and it will outrun, outperform and outkick every car's ass! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cool.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
04-28-2005, 05:30 AM
yeah good to know but let's not go too crazy <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

nismo
04-28-2005, 06:33 PM
Can I ask why you chose a M45 Sport for your pricing? What does the E500 or 545i have over the base M45 in terms of features? <p>What would be the prices if you chose the german models with their sport packages?

Cozz
04-28-2005, 07:33 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can I ask why you chose a M45 Sport for your pricing? <b>What does the E500 or 545i have over the base M45 in terms of features?</b> <p>What would be the prices if you chose the german models with their sport packages?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>One of my favorite features of the E-class is it's safty. What does the M45 have? Does it even offer rear door airbags? Can you even adjust the front seat belts on the M45?

Roadster44
04-28-2005, 08:19 PM
F--- Car and Driver. American media is absolutely clueless on how to test cars. MB E350...most boring car of all time for those dull executive 45 year old males that listen to soft rock. To me its no better than Hyundai/Kia in terms of character. Car I'd have picked...S-Type VDP or BMW 530i. I could rant for hours about this. But M45 doesn't have much class to it, yes I like the way it looks, but I don't know...something is missing despite 0 to 60 figures and stuff.

ndjan
04-29-2005, 10:18 AM
To the airbags and adjustable seatbelts, the answers are Yes and Yes. It also offers the LDWS, and it has a backup camera-- two key safety features the Germans don't have. <p>Either way, though, I'd wait to crash tests before I'd predict which is the safer car.

Cozz
04-29-2005, 05:08 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ndjan</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To the airbags and adjustable seatbelts, the answers are Yes and Yes. It also offers the LDWS, and it has a backup camera-- two key safety features the Germans don't have. <p>Either way, though, I'd wait to crash tests before I'd predict which is the safer car.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Incorrect, the M45 doesn't offer rear door airbags. As for the adjustible hieght front seat belts, it wasn't mention while any E-class info does.<p>PS. The E-class is probably the safest car in it's class with highest ratings. The M45 can't top perfection, it could olny match it.<br>

nismo
04-29-2005, 06:40 PM
Yeah the 550i also WILL "eclipse" the M45 in price just like most current 5er models... <p>No one is saying the 530 is slow or not a good car it just doesn't stack up to a comparable M-series. The market and competition have changed and BMW and Mercedes are going to have to lower their prices eventually, because soon consumers are going to notice they're cars don't really have an advantage over cars like the GS and M-series.

Comrade
04-29-2005, 09:43 PM
Wait, did I forget "outhandle" in my post above? How could I? shame on me! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>WTF is a Gotta-have-it-factor? Such crap! That is something the buyer should decide.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Comrade at 10:18 PM 4/29/2005</i>

Hornbag
04-30-2005, 04:35 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Comrade</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just wait for the 550i, hook it up with a sport package, and it will outrun, outperform and outkick every car's ass! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>YEH!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> BMW kicks ass <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bowdown.gif" BORDER="0"> LOL<p>Styling wise i think the BMW has it, and i cant wait for the 550 either! It will just make this great car better...

Comrade
04-30-2005, 10:51 AM
I think styling wise is the only place the 5er lacks.<p><br>If Audi were to build a RWD car in this class , my guess is they would be somewhere on top in this comparison. The car would loose about 150 lbs cuz of 2WD, there wouldn't be understeer cuz of the front wheels pulling. The car would be better balanced and therefor handle better. They could make the front design a little more interesting by giving it a tad more shape rather than having the front shaped like half a circle which is there to help minimizing the effect of the front overhang by making it look smaller than it actually is. Due to the fact that they have to place the whole engine over tha front axle, the front wheel are really close to the door and that just doesn't look athletic, timeless, isn't as balanced, etc. <br>But they won't change to RWD. It's like "wasted talent". <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>The A6 kind of won in Automobile Mag's comparison where all sedans had V8's but for some reason they didn't grade by points <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I like both BMW and Audi but I'll take RWD cuz it's superior <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Comrade at 10:57 AM 4/30/2005</i>

Vector
04-30-2005, 06:41 PM
My lease is coming up on my 3-series and I'm starting to consider these cars. The catch is that, as much as I'd like, the V8's are more than I'd like to spend (I have hobbies!). <p>My take is is that the Japanese have come a loooong way. This used to be an easy choice: BMW or die, right? But that is far from the case now. My friends with G35 coupes are a constant reminder how good Infiniti has become. And Lexus, while I haven't been a fan of the comfy-cars they make, is now a real contender. As hard as it is to admit, I don't think this one is going to go BMW's way. Test drives tomorrow and next week may tell. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

the cheddar
05-03-2005, 11:34 AM
It all comes down to personal preference. Some here like the comfort-focus of Lexus. Some like the heritage and driver-involvement of a BMW. And others are seeing Infiniti come to the table with something new, different and unquestionably exciting. Each can be equipped as desired, with concurrent inflation of asking price.<p>But given the different preferences, everyone wants a different choice and no one seems easily persuaded. Am I wrong?

eightballsidepocket
05-06-2005, 10:17 AM
The M45 just whipped ass on the competition again in Road and Tracks latest edition. Yes, a comparably equipped Bimmer was in the group.<p><B>1) M45 Sport (582.5 pts.)<br>2) 545i (569.0 pts.)<br>3) GS 430 (559.1 pts.) </B><p>Apparently, there were three categories (Performance, Subjective, and Price), and the M45 won in all three.<p> <p><br>This is getting to be more than a "fluke" folks.<p>That makes 8 comparison wins that I know of so far the new Infiniti-M/Fuga:<p><B>1. Driver (02/05) - Fuga 350GT<br>2. Motor Trend (03/05) - M35 Luxury<br>3. USA Today (03/05) - Infiniti-M<br>4. Detrot News (04/05) - M35 Luxury<br>5. Best Motoring (04/05) - Fuga 350GT-S<br>6. Car and Driver (05/05) - M45 Sport<br>7. Motor Trend (05/05) - M45 Sport<br>8. Road & Track (6/05) - M45 Sport</B><br>That makes it a clean sweep from the major three USDM magazines with the most readership. Edmunds, Automobile, and Speed magazines are the three where the "M" did not win. Eight out of eleven comparison wins, not bad.<p>

Comrade
05-22-2005, 11:02 AM
I just saw an Infiniti M commercial. They said something about Rear-wheel <I>steering</I> . Can somebody clarify what that is and what it does? Thanks in advance.

Roadster44
05-22-2005, 01:00 PM
Zdarova Comrade! Love the screenname. Anyways M45 has system similar to that of GMC. Basically rear wheels turn slightly in relation to front wheels to steer better and tighter around the bend. Its a very good system, feels natural too. I like it.

Comrade
05-22-2005, 09:45 PM
Thanks Roadster44! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"><p>wow i didn't think it would improve hadling... good stuff! I thought it was just for easy parking in tight spaces like in the GMC. If I get a chance I'll definitely drive one and see what it feels like.

Denali
05-24-2005, 11:28 AM
ya'll just got 2 give it 2 Infinti M, they did they job,<br> they beat the best<p>545i & GS430<p>i dont agree wit C&D, every car should of been a V8 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> not price range

infinitifan
05-24-2005, 02:36 PM
My Favorite Quote:<p>"The M45 rocks. Game over."<br>Car and Driver May 2005<br>

knicks125
06-04-2005, 09:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Should be like this... "the M45 will rock until the 550 arrives. GAME OVER." <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Price point it would not be fair to compare to two...if the current LOADED 5 series is that much more expensive than the M45, where is that going to leave the 550, would that even be fair to compare then?<p>I've test driven the M45, and it's a ton better than a COMPARABLE 5 series, from an overall stand point, and so is the price...

jro4566
06-04-2005, 09:28 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Should be like this... "the M45 will rock until the 550 arrives. GAME OVER." <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hehe, but how much does the BMW cost again?

knicks125
06-04-2005, 04:12 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>You're right about the price point of view but i wasn't reffering to that... I meant PERFORMANCE. The 545i and the M45 are in the same level of performance today, but the 550 WILL change this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Then you are not comparing apple to apple, more like apple to orange...<p>i know this is a bad example but kinda like throwing a 300hp european model and compare it to the Evo or the STi; peformance might be about the same or better but at the expense of 15-20k more<p><B>The word comparable means somewhat equal competitions in all categories, not just performance, but also price and others</B>

Cozz
06-04-2005, 08:02 PM
Why don't car magazines consider safty in their choices?

Naga Royal Guard
06-05-2005, 09:10 AM
it had better, because the rest of that car is ASS

syclone
06-05-2005, 12:35 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why don't car magazines consider safty in their choices?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think in cars of this level, safety is going to be pretty good in general. As I recall, C&D did actually mention safety in their criteria for their test where the M45 won, but I'll have to double check on that.

Cozz
06-05-2005, 06:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I think in cars of this level, safety is going to be pretty good in general. As I recall, C&D did actually mention safety in their criteria for their test where the M45 won, but I'll have to double check on that.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I haven't checked it myself but the M45 doesn't even offer rear door airbags.

knicks125
06-05-2005, 06:53 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I haven't checked it myself but the M45 doesn't even offer rear door airbags.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's got front, side and curtain air bags.

Cozz
06-06-2005, 05:05 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>It's got front, side and curtain air bags.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It doesn't have rear door airbags. Most cars have side cutain airbags, nothing new. Curtain airbags protect the head area. Door airbags protect shoulder, albow, arm, pretty much the whole side of the lower body.<p>Driver Airbag............................................ ...........Standard<br>Passenger Airbag............................................ ...Standard<br>Passenger Air Bag Cutoff Switch/Sensor............Standard<br>Front Side Airbag............................................ ....Standard<br><b>Second Row Side Airbag.....................................N/A</b><br>Front Side Airbag with Head Protection..............N/A (doesn't need it because of curtain)<br>Second Row Side Airbag with Head Protection...N/A (doesn't need it because of curtain)<br>Side Head Curtain Airbags..................................Standard<p>It offers it on the front sides, not rear sides.<p>E-class...<p>Driver Airbag............................................ ...........Standard<br>Passenger Airbag............................................ ...Standard<br>Passenger Air Bag Cutoff Switch/Sensor............Standard<br>Front Side Airbag............................................ ....Standard<br>Second Row Side Airbag.....................................Standar d<br>Front Side Airbag with Head Protection..............N/A (doesn't need it because of curtain)<br>Second Row Side Airbag with Head Protection...N/A (doesn't need it because of curtain)<br>Side Head Curtain Airbags..................................Standard<p>The Infinity website clearly shows a pic of all airbags inflated, the rear bottom door has nothing.<p>Not impresed for a $47K car. At least offer safty. A E350 offers all of that.

Blackraven
06-06-2005, 06:12 AM
Nissan Fuga/Infiniti M hands down (for me).<p>I'd only pick MB/BMW for their diesel engines.

AM2
06-06-2005, 10:34 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Blackraven</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nissan Fuga/Infiniti M hands down (for me).<p>I'd only pick MB/BMW for their diesel engines.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>For me, i'd pick:<br>1st Lexus GS430<br>2nd Infiniti M45<p>Different story if they included the 545i in the test...<p><br>

knicks125
06-06-2005, 12:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Different story if they included the 545i in the test...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>True except most comparison tests are geared toward consumers. Obviously we all agree every car tested here is really really good...okay...then if every car is about the same, the telling story is going to be on the price (an addition of 5k or 10k means a lot for most consumers). Sorry, heritage used to mean something in the auto market, not any more - just go look at current sales figure (US), europeans and US brands are on the slide (downward trend), but the asians are constantly on the rise, in a competitive market.<p>To throw in 545 or even 550 is not really fair, since the differences in price with other brands are not just marginal, rather, they are huge. Go spec a COMPARABLE car (base vs. base, top of the line vs. top of the line) for each brand and you'll see the disparity (in price) between asian brands and european brands, while offering similar quality cars.<p>Cozz, having rear door airbags doesn't mean much unless they are effective and save lives. You are correct on the fact the E class is by far one of the safest cars; that said, I would wait for the crash test on the M before dismissing it so fast.

knicks125
06-06-2005, 04:29 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WRONG. whats not fair is to put the old 530i with 225hp (the new has 258)and the E350 against the M45 and all other V8 competitors and make quotes saying that the 530 is slow, just like C&D did.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I know what you are saying but I still don't think it's fair because you are comparing something that's 10-15k more expensive; if it's not better then there would be some problems<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anybody knows that an airbag is pretty damn effective, i agree that a rear door airbag doesn't mean much for a custumer whos buying a car, but by saying that its not important? I wonder where your 4 year old child goes, in the front or in the back? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Did you read the rest my post? I said you need to have effective air bags, as we know not every air bag from every automaker is effective (per crash test results). I went on and said, the E class, which is equipped with rear door airbags, is one of the safest cars out there; <B>but that is not to say cars without rear door airbags are not safe</B>. Like I said, I would wait until crash test results, as rear curtain airbags have work just as effective...

Naga Royal Guard
06-06-2005, 05:30 PM
according to knicks125, there exists cars that have <i>ineffective</i> rear airbags<p>what is it, do they simply not deploy, or do they force the passenger toward the area of impact to be crushed to their doom?

Cozz
06-06-2005, 06:00 PM
I didn't mean to make the rear airbag such a big deal. I was just showing that the M didn't have them yet people are saying the M is cheaper and offers everything others have, not so.<p>Though I do think knick is correct about waiting for crash test results. A new Nissan was just tested and did very good on side impact tests without having rear door airbags.<p><br>

Cozz
06-06-2005, 06:08 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.car-trix.com/Cozz/M45.JPG" BORDER="0"> <p>I got it from the Infiniti website.

knicks125
06-06-2005, 06:18 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you know what is the base price for the 545? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> Its 56k. And thats NOT 10 to 15k higher that the infinity, do the math its 6k for both models in base price form)</TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Base V8 models:<p>2005 545i - 4.4L V8 325hp - 55,800 MSRP<br>2006 M45 - 4.5L V8 335hp - 46,950 MSRP<p>Difference = 8,850 (fairly close to 10k) - the only reason I brought up the range up to 15k is my estimation for 550<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> <B>Have you read my post?</B> Are you saying that BMW or Mercedes airbags aren't effective?? I have never said that cars without rear airbags aren't safe, i just would rather have one with rear door airbags that's all...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually, I don't think you read my post clearly. Had you done so, you would have seen me mention twice the E class is one of the safest cars out there. As Cozz mentioned, we need to wait for various crash test results and then pass judgement which car is safer...<p>------------------<p>Naga, sorry if I wasn't being clear, I was talking about airbags in general, and not just those in th rear

knicks125
06-06-2005, 07:37 PM
The main differences bet. M45 base & M45 sport are only rear active steer/sport tuned suspension and larger wheels (although summer tires but better rated - W).<p>From the above, the fact that M can offer its base version at a cheaper starting price will attract more consumers. As for many brands on the market, base models are sold more commonly than upgraded trim lines. While CD puts the M45 sport for comparison, I would think the M45 would not be that far off; plus the use of the sport trim line probably closed the price disparity between all cars tested, since M45 has one of the lowest v8 offered.<p>I have drove both the M45 and 545i, and IMO, I would pick the M; however, we each have different opinions <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> I would suggest you drive both of these cars, if you ever get the chance, then you would be able to form your own, rather than rely on expert tests that you might not agree upon...

Comrade
06-06-2005, 08:53 PM
Here is a test/example that proves a good point concerning side airbags:<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Side airbags are important, but so is good structure: The results for the Verona and Maxima show that vehicles with weak side structures are unlikely to provide effective protection in serious side crashes, even if they're equipped with head-protecting airbags. Both of these cars earned good ratings for driver head protection because of the standard side airbags, but the marginal performances of their structures contributed to high forces elsewhere on the driver dummies in both cars and on the rear dummy in the Verona.</TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>source: Insurance Institute for Highway Safety

Cozz
06-07-2005, 04:01 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Comrade</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is a test/example that proves a good point concerning side airbags:<p><br>Side airbags are important, but so is good structure: The results for the Verona and Maxima show that vehicles with weak side structures are unlikely to provide effective protection in serious side crashes, even if they're equipped with head-protecting airbags. Both of these cars earned good ratings for driver head protection because of the standard side airbags, but the marginal performances of their structures contributed to high forces elsewhere on the driver dummies in both cars and on the rear dummy in the Verona. <p>source: Insurance Institute for Highway Safety</TD></TR></TABLE><p>This came out yesterday? That was the Nissan I was talking about. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

AM2
06-07-2005, 04:52 AM
On safety, Why do most new BMWs have non-height adjustable front seatbealts anchors. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><IMG SRC="http://img56.echo.cx/img56/8396/5seriesinteriorseatbelt9qj.jpg" BORDER="0">

Comrade
06-07-2005, 09:37 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>This came out yesterday? That was the Nissan I was talking about. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>But you said that the car did very good, while they actually gave it a marginal rating. Read again... the airbags only protected the dummies's heads( which I guess is very important to your body lol) it's the structure that wasn't strong enough to withstand the side impact. Here is the whole article where the Audi A4 earned a "Double-Best Pick". <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> The only other car to earn this rating was the Saab 9-3.<p><A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2005/pr060505.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.hwysafety.org/news_...5.htm</A>

knicks125
06-07-2005, 09:48 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Comrade</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is a test/example that proves a good point concerning side airbags:</TD></TR></TABLE><p>May I ask how did we get to side airbags <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> discussions all of the sudden? Correct me if I am wrong, but all of the cars tested here have side airbags and they all work fairly well (effective)

Comrade
06-07-2005, 10:23 AM
I belive it started with infiniti having as much features as others. The infinti doesn't have rear-side airbags. They are important protection. But the structure is also important. That is why I posted the article. So until we see a test with both the E-class and the M45, we can't really say that one is safer than other because it has more side airbags, as you said. <p>Then on the other hand, airbags can be damaging... Yesterday I went to traffic schoool and I heard a lot of stories about airbags exploding. They contain flamboyant chemicals that can burn your skin and damage your eyes/vision and that sort of stuff. but those rare cases I guess. <p>OK back on topic. My favorite color for any car is silver :P <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Comrade at 12:35 PM 6/7/2005</i>

knicks125
06-07-2005, 11:02 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>7 speed SMG</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Actually I have drove several 545's never got the chance on the infiniti though. The only infiniti i have ever drove is the FX 45 and it is a masterpiece. I currently drive an S-type but thats about to change whem my M5 arrives. <p>PS: I will let you know how it goes... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Just to be fair, the 5 series is a great car, it is right up there with every other car tested, if not better <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>btw, i love the sound of the FX...my cousin has one, and I always trade with his FX when he's out of town <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

Cozz
06-07-2005, 11:08 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On safety, Why do most new BMWs have non-height adjustable front seatbealts anchors. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><IMG SRC="http://img56.echo.cx/img56/8396/5seriesinteriorseatbelt9qj.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't think the M has them neither but I could be wrong. They where not shown in any pics and where not listed in it's features. Again, I could be wrong. I've beed reading a lot of stuff backwards lately. Forgive me.

nismo
06-08-2005, 11:29 PM
Had to ask, why do you compare the M35/45 Sport to the base 535/45? Why not a base model...? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>And about the flambouyant chemicals in airbags. My mom was in accident and the chemicals did in fact burn her, but her car was a 1996 and I believe it doesn't happen or at least its not as bad in newer models.

Cozz
06-09-2005, 04:46 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had to ask, why do you compare the M35/45 Sport to the base 535/45? Why not a base model...? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>That's what the magazines have been doing.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>And about the flambouyant chemicals in airbags. My mom was in accident and the chemicals did in fact burn her, but her car was a 1996 and I believe it doesn't happen or at least its not as bad in newer models.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, also depending on what brand of car. I remember that the first airbags from Nissan where making people blind because it hit them right in the eyes before it was fully inflated!

Naga Royal Guard
06-09-2005, 06:47 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On safety, Why do most new BMWs have non-height adjustable front seatbealts anchors. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><IMG SRC="http://img56.echo.cx/img56/8396/5seriesinteriorseatbelt9qj.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>there was a service bulletin for this one

knicks125
06-09-2005, 06:58 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>That's what the magazines have been doing.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Regarding the point that magazines compare M45 sport to the 545 and others, my take is that they wanted to close the gap in pricing so it would look more comparable as far as pricing is concerned. Personally I think the base model of the M45 is comparable to the 545.

nismo
06-09-2005, 10:56 PM
exactly how I see it.... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Cozz
06-10-2005, 05:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Regarding the point that magazines compare M45 sport to the 545 and others, my take is that they wanted to close the gap in pricing so it would look more comparable as far as pricing is concerned. Personally I think the base model of the M45 is comparable to the 545.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's the problem, they grab a fully loaded Japanese car then they rave how it beats the lowest model Euro cars. Not fair.<p>I remember when they used the older S-class V6 vs. all the other cars in it's class using V8's. Then they said the S-class was too slow.(idiots) But that expensive car came out to be one of the saftest cars in the world and some of the most reliable. The cheaper stuff was trash in 8 years. You shouldn't put a price in safty even when it's $8,000 difference but them magazines did.

knicks125
06-10-2005, 06:46 AM
I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, the M and other asian models can compete just as much as their, more expensive, european counterparts (base trim vs. base trim, etc)<p>Price aside, they are all very good cars; factoring the price, it's whole new ball game. The reason these tests used the loaded trim for asian models and somewhat baseline trip for europeans is to close the price gap between the cars tested.

nismo
06-10-2005, 05:11 PM
A BMW 535 goes against an Infiniti M35 not an Infiniti M35 "Sport"... to my knowledge the Bimmer doesn't come with 4 wheel steering standard. Isn't there a "sport" package for the 5er? How 'bout we compare those prices:<br>BMW 535 w/sport package vs. Infiniti M35 w/"sport" package...<p>Does anyone know when Lexus will release the new engines into the GS? That would make the GS a little more interesting. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cool.gif" BORDER="0">

ndjan
06-12-2005, 10:59 AM
It seems to me like the magazines are usually somewhat logical about their comparisons. They either match up cars by price or equipment. Either way, you look at the other. For example, if you look at the equipment, the M is cheaper than the 5. If you look at price, you get a lot more with the M for the same price. If they took a money-were-no-object approach, then of course the 5 would win. The problem is, even in this price range, value is important, so it would be dumb of them to ignore it.