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knicks125
03-04-2005, 10:58 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>Best picks</B>: In all, the magazine recommends 81 of the 222 vehicles it evaluated. Recommended are those cars and trucks that do well in tests conducted by the magazine's editors, have average or better reliability in a survey that got replies from 810,000 readers this year, and did well on crash tests.<p>The Toyota brand did best, earning 13 checkmarks. Ford and Honda got six recommendations, Nissan and Lexus got five, and Acura, Chevrolet and Subaru received four</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well Done All...Congrats <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Several brands -- Hummer, Isuzu, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lotus, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Porsche and Saturn -- had no recommended vehicles</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Ha Ha Ha <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reliability. Overall, Champion said, reliability of today's cars and trucks continues to improve. <B>Japanese brands remain the quality leaders, but the domestics have ``made relatively large strides and inched even closer.'' Europeans have become a ``disappointment,</B>'' he said.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes I agree with the bold text <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>The 2004 Hyundai Sonata was the single best vehicle, with only two reported problems per 100 vehicles</B>. <B>Subaru was the single best brand, averaging eight problems per 100</B>. Long-time reliability leader Honda fell to second, with an average of nine problems per 100 vehicles.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Wow, what a jump by the Sonata, major improvements overall by Hyundai, Great Job!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>and also the subaru <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>High-priced models</B>. Consumer Reports evaluated 37 models with starting prices of $40,000 or more. It only recommended four of them.<p>The magazine isn't biased against luxury cars, Champion said. ``The problem with more expensive cars is that the reliablility hasn't been very good,'' he said.<p>Many of these models are from European brands, and those automakers have been having problems with electronics and electric power equipment recently, he said.<p>``Lexus shows it can be done with LS430,'' he said. ``They've got very good reliability. There are just as many features on a LS430 as on a BMW 7-Series or a (Mercedes) S-Class or on a Cadillac.''<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>HA HA HA <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Consumer Reports</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>Best Picks Summary</B>:<p> Small sedan : Ford Focus<p> Family sedan: Honda Accord Hybrid<p> Upscale sedan: Acura TL<p> Luxury sedan: Lexus LS430<p> Small SUV: Subaru Forester<p> Mid-size SUV: Lexus RX330<p> Three-row SUV: Honda Pilot<p> Green car: Toyota Prius<p> Fun to drive: Subaru Impreza WRX<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sources:<p>Consumer Reports - <A HREF="http://www.consumerreports.org/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.consumerreports.org/</A><br>CNN - <A HREF="http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/04/pf/autos/bc.autos.survey.reut/" TARGET="_blank">http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/0...reut/</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 1:07 AM 3/5/2005</i>

SV
03-05-2005, 10:59 AM
yeah, i got the new car issue too. i was extremely disapointed by the chevy cobalt's rating (they're testing it in the may issue, but they always have the ratings from the may issue in the new cars issue). i really thought it would be as good as chevrolet promised. oh well, maybe GM USA can't build small cars (or they have very bad luck) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

Charger
03-05-2005, 02:16 PM
Ive never like Consumer Reports. I dont agree with any of their picks.

Krypton
03-05-2005, 02:22 PM
Their a good magazine that only picks on value, comfort,drivability rather than sport or looks. Its the perfect magazine to get a reliable,comfortable automoblie

knicks125
03-05-2005, 02:29 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Krypton</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Their a good magazine that only picks on value, comfort,drivability rather than sport or looks. Its the perfect magazine to get a reliable,comfortable automoblie</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Good point there, which is what most people wanted to see <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>people buy cars based on sport or looks generally will race or to showoff, and by doing so, the chances of accidents go up dramatically, which may hurt innocent drivers on the road... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/angry.gif" BORDER="0">

NorthPoint
03-05-2005, 02:48 PM
Consumer Reports is such garbage. Blah...

knicks125
03-05-2005, 03:04 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>NorthPoint</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Consumer Reports is such garbage. Blah...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>it's not all that bad...there are a lot other ones worst off...i actually think they did a pretty good job and agree with most of their reviews...they are true...denial is the worst thing <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

NorthPoint
03-05-2005, 03:13 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's not all that bad...there are a lot other ones worst off...i actually think they did a pretty good job and agree with most of their reviews...they are true...denial is the worst thing <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't really care what their results are regarding brands/models. The thing that bugs me most is that Consumer Reports is for people whose only interest in cars is getting from point a to b. The people whose indifference allows car companies to bring out some of the incredibly boring and dull vehicles that they do. We all want problem free cars but as an enthusiast I would rather have a car that is fun to drive with a few problems than a perfectly reliable one that's completely boring to drive.

knicks125
03-05-2005, 03:17 PM
i agree but keep in mind the report is designed for the masses, and masses don't care about those factors, rather more on safety, value, comfort. I know where are you come from but many reviewers are serving the masses and not the small population of car enthuaists like us <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> sorry!<p>hey the wrx is there, that's a fun car to drive <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-05-2005, 04:02 PM
Although many of you have voiced your opinions about CR being inacurrate (or for better, North Point's word) which ever you feel like saying, it has a lot of truth. For example, the cinderella story here is Hyundai, and it concurs with JD Power's quality report that came out last year, as korean branded vehicles overtook europeans and domestics <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>BTW, JD Power and other government approved facilities and their crash tests (NHTSA, IIHS, etc) are the only ones I actually pay SERIOUS attention to <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><B>Believe it or not, say it with me, the most reliable car in America for 2004 is....Hyundai Sonata <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </B> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Velocitas
03-05-2005, 05:20 PM
<br>CR doesn't use all of the criteria I would, but that's okay. Consider this: do YOU want a car that's not reliabile? Unsafe? Poor build quality? Probably not.<p>Now, lots of car magazines are run by enthusiasts who wouldn't have the heart to ding the crash-worthiness of a Lotus, or slam Porsche's build quality or what have you.<p>What I respect about CR is that they don't care about the marketing image. <p>It's just one voice, not the last word. I wouldn't want them to be the only car review on the planet, but I like the fact that it's a different voice from the heavy-breathing, ad revenue receiving, main line auto pubs.<br>

Hornbag
03-05-2005, 05:27 PM
Normally i woulnt care, but Ford got 6 recommendations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So i care! LOL

anonms
03-05-2005, 05:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Normally i woulnt care, but Ford got 6 recommendations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So i care! LOL</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Why? Ford's not so bad.

Hornbag
03-05-2005, 05:53 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>chibi ichigo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Why? Ford's not so bad.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, i lubs Ford, 4eva and eva. Thats why i payed attention, cos Ford got 6 recomadations.

knicks125
03-05-2005, 08:13 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Yeah, i lubs Ford, 4eva and eva. Thats why i payed attention, cos Ford got 6 recomadations.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah we know, i say this with a **sigh***<p>j/k...it's all good...lol <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Tman2
03-06-2005, 01:29 PM
Their ratings put more weight on more "virtuous" qualities, but this does not mean that by being on their Best List, a safe, reliable car cannot be an exciting one.

Roadster44
03-06-2005, 04:46 PM
Remember one thing...editors at Consumer Reports are good at reporting factual data such as the amount of recalls, sales and prices. As far as which vehicle to pick I think they are completely clueless. Do you honestly think of any of them know what to look for in cars? The feel good factor, appreciation for styling, intuitive layout of controls?<p>So like I said...it is good reading material when it comes to finding out facts, but reviews of cars I'll leave to 100% pure uncut automotive media.

knicks125
03-06-2005, 08:54 PM
<B>Update</B><p>**Hornbag...turn off your computer please, you might not want to hear this** <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><B>Citing IIHS Crash Test Results, Consumer Reports Removes Ford Focus as Top Pick for Small Sedans</B> - <A HREF="http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=43920" TARGET="_blank">http://releases.usnewswire.com...43920</A><p>Consumer Reports has removed the Ford Focus as its Top Pick for small cars because it performed poorly in insurance industry crash tests that were announced on Sunday.<p>(<I>See other cars removed in the press release</I>)<p><B>The test</B>:<p>In all, 14 of 16 small cars received poor ratings in the latest IIHS crash tests. If you're buying a small car, Consumer Reports suggests that you consider the Toyota Corolla with the optional side-air-bag package. With the optional air bags, the Corolla achieved acceptable results in the new crash tests; without the air bags, the Corolla performed poorly. The Corolla earned a very good score in our road tests, and has had excellent reliability and excellent overall ratings in other crash tests. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>my comments, actually, all 16 small cars tested received the poor rating - the worst possible, with its standard package. The Corolla and the Cobalt paid additional money and received average rating with its optional side curtain airbags. - saw this on dateline.<p>Although most car companies say their ratings were acceptable or average on tests performed by NHTSA (government apporved).<p><B>Your thoughts on this and the discrpenacy (sp?) between the two tests conducted - remember the mazda3 and the elantra received very good ratings a few months ago, they were, too in the poor rating as tested by IIHS.</B>

Verdegrrl
03-07-2005, 01:23 PM
"By contrast, the problem rate for European automakers rose slightly to 21 per 100 from 20 last year.<p>"Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and Volvo had more than their fair share of problems. Only Audi came out better than average," the magazine said." <p><A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/05/cars.survey.reut/index.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2005/BUSINE....html</A> <p>"As for the U.S. automakers, they keep drawing closer to their Asian rivals but never quite catch up. The best U.S. brands -- Ford, which ranked ninth, and Pontiac, 10th -- had 15 problems per 100 vehicles for 2004 models, more than twice Subaru's rate. Audi was the best from Europe, with a 12% problem rate.<p>The industry average for 2004 model vehicles was a 16% problem rate, compared with 17% a year earlier. " <p><A HREF="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cars5mar05,0,5658976.story?coll=la-home-business" TARGET="_blank">http://www.latimes.com/busines...iness</A>

knicks125
03-07-2005, 02:23 PM
Personally, I'm very happy that asian automakers continue to be the best, fueled by the committment of manfacuters, such as Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, etc <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>However, I'm very disappointed about European automakers' performances, prices have risen across the board, yet nothing is changing <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Domestic (US) automakers are improving steadily as evident by the results, well done, but it's not over, they still have a long way to go - overall, <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

SV
03-07-2005, 04:29 PM
in the article about the crashes, it said the cobalt wasn't recomended only because of insufficient reliability data. that's interesting, it looked like it was rated too low to be recommended in the annual auto issue (but i'll be glad if it is rated high enough; i've been hoping the cobalt would be a good car). the suzuki aerio was rated just above the cobalt, and it wasn't recommended for no apparent reason, so i assumed that it was rated too low; that would mean the cobalt is rated too low to be recomended too. i'm confused <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0">

Hornbag
03-09-2005, 12:07 AM
I might cry.............

evomk8
03-09-2005, 09:40 AM
Though Consumer Reports is a reputable magazine, I still find their reliability survey results questionable <br>As with any survey, the accuracy depends on the quality of the sample. CR gets its responses from its readership. does this sample really represet the general populace and their experience. Further, it can be argued that the CR sample is biased towards a specific personality type (CR reader, likes to fill out surveys, have a need for approval, etc). In addition, these CR readers may have been sensitized by CR's tests and reports (i.e. a known problem that exists for a specific car that was not there may now be perceived as being there by the owner). Thus, CR's opinion may bias surveys responses. Finally, CR does not provide a standard deviation to its finding, as well as definitions to its weighting of problem severity.<br>As such, IMHO, the results reported by CR are quite suspect.<br>Overall, I do agree that CR does provide some good information and their picks, at least to some degree, seem quite decent.<br>I, however, like to caution that the results from these surveys, and even those of JD Power and others (Auto Pacific, IntelliChoice) are merely good information, but by all means not the say all end all.

knicks125
03-09-2005, 09:46 AM
i agree with you but I think you have to keep in mind that there are no non-biased reports...regardless of the source, most results are going to be skewked on way or the other, some obvious while others subtle. I believe CR's results is pretty good otherwise they would not have selected the Hyundai SOnata as the most reliable car in 2004, with only 2 problems per 100; <p>also, as far as quality is concerned, asian cars are best right now, european is going downhill, and US is continuing to improve - these are true facts, whether or not you accept them are your choice, your bias, and your favorites <p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
03-09-2005, 11:31 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in the article about the crashes, it said the cobalt wasn't recomended only because of insufficient reliability data. that's interesting, it looked like it was rated too low to be recommended in the annual auto issue (but i'll be glad if it is rated high enough; i've been hoping the cobalt would be a good car). the suzuki aerio was rated just above the cobalt, and it wasn't recommended for no apparent reason, so i assumed that it was rated too low; that would mean the cobalt is rated too low to be recomended too. i'm confused <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Here is an article from a recent IIHS crash test study...<br><A HREF="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7088736" TARGET="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7088736</A>/<br>if you read it, it says Cobalt along with Corolla get the second highest rating of acceptable for side impact crash tests (they scored the highest out of all the other cars which recieved poors) But they only recieved acceptable with the added side curtain airbags where with or without it didnt matter for the other cars becae they got poor regardless...Also the Cobalt got a rating of good for frontal impact which was the highest rating for this test, and the cobalt was rated the highest, and it was selected as the best pick out of all the cars tested...

evomk8
03-09-2005, 11:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe CR's results is pretty good otherwise they would not have selected the Hyundai SOnata as the most reliable car in 2004, with only 2 problems per 100; <br>also, as far as quality is concerned, asian cars are best right now, european is going downhill, and US is continuing to improve - these are true facts, whether or not you accept them are your choice, your bias, and your favorites <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>I know what your favorite is <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>As mentioned, in my opinion, it is not advisable to consider CR's findings "true facts" based on my explanation earlier. They are a guide or indication at best. Since their findings do not even represent a complete sample of U.S. buyers (only CR readers) and the sample size very small compared to the total number of cars sold in 2004 (810,000 cars versus 17 million cars sold). That equals 4.76%, and thats an optimistic number, considering that some buyers get two or more vehicles a year.<br>Sorry for preaching and sounding like a broken record, but... IMHO, be careful when using these survey results.

knicks125
03-09-2005, 12:33 PM
i hope you guessed asian cars because they are my favorites right now, not becuase of the results from CR, or any other similar studies, tests, but b/c of my experiences. I've had european cars (mostly germans), and I found them to be okay, way too expensive, it wasn't worth it; I've had domestic (US) cars, and I also found them to be okay but lack a lot of qualities the europeans and asians had (this was a few years ago, now they seem to be catching up). I've had asian cars and still do today, (solara, TL), and I found them to have the best of the best, as far as judging from a overall standpoint.<p>PS: I mentioned the Sonata being a reliable car b/c I am considering to purchase the new Sonata when it comes out this bring. BTW, I had the car in mind way before the CR results came out, and those results don't usually affect my decison too much but they will sway me a little bit more towards one side or the other. <p>And, I guess I should've mentioned the "true facts", as I posted earlier, should include IMO, although I feel pretty confident that many others would agree me it is the case currently <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>What's a complete sample of the U.S. buyers???? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0">

evomk8
03-10-2005, 07:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">iWhat's a complete sample of the U.S. buyers???? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Obviously a complete sample would mean having to ask every single peron living in the U.S. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>So, that was my mistake. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> The correct term would be "representative sample". JD Power is a bit closer to a representative sample, since they (presumably) send out their surveys all over the U.S., whereas Consumer Reports only samples their own readers.<br>BTW, I was assuming Asian cars were your preference. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Roadster44
03-10-2005, 10:08 AM
Knicks I see you appreciate and respect Asian manufacturers. You appreciate the reliability, safety and comfort. But you are not an enthusiast driver. You ARE the US market mass. Which is fine and cars such as the new Sonata might suit your needs. However don't impose your believes onto us. <p>We know that European manufacturers are lagging in quality, but that is mostly the case with DCX and VW...BMW still remains rock solid. Just look at recalls for 7 series and X5...I mean the reasons for those. Are German cars overpriced? Absolutely not...the weak dollar and government regulations do not favor Euro manus. Japanese have a MUCH easier time selling a car to US market at more competitve prices. That's the bigger picture. <p>As for Consumer Reports...they only report safety, reliabillity and fuel mileage. Stuff like handling, interior fit and finish, quality of plastics, NVH levels, and a feel good factor do not get represented. Do I feel any better about Automotive media? Well yes and no...US media is lagging in their reviews. Personally I prefer autocar, evo, 4car and top gear. Domestics I trust are autoweek and road&track. <p>CR is good for your average reader as to where automotive media touches upon all factors.

knicks125
03-10-2005, 10:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Roadster44</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But you are not an enthusiast driver. You ARE the US market mass.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>How do you figure that...don't make assumptions<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Roadster44</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">However don't impose your believes onto us.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>is it wrong to give opinions, i never said you have to agree with me<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Roadster44</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We know that European manufacturers are lagging in quality</TD></TR></TABLE><p>did i ever say europeans lagged in quality? nope all i said was that they are overpriced, and that's my opinion; whether or not you agree with me is up to me, but it is based on my experiences with european cars. See I actually talk based on my experience, not when people bash other cars without even had a chance to drive the car (not you roadster, other people)<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Roadster44</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CR is good for your average reader as to where automotive media touches upon all factors.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>And I never said I trust/care about CR, the only reason I posted is FYI. As I said before, I don't care about any reviews from automotive media, they are all biased one way or the other. The only ones I actually pay attention to is JDPOwer and government approved testing facilities (ex. NHTSA)

Roadster44
03-11-2005, 09:16 AM
If you don't mind me asking, what European cars you have owned in past?

knicks125
03-12-2005, 12:39 PM
jetta, a4, c230

mzoltarp
03-16-2005, 06:15 AM
Consumer Reports is so perfect. NOT! I recall their test of the Dodge Omni. I believe the test procedure was something loony like accelerating to 55mph then cranking the steering wheel 90 degrees, letting go of it, then slamming the brake pedal to the floor. I'm almost of the mindset that if CR says it's good, I will run in the opposite direction. The Ford Focus is one of their choices and that car is one of the biggest recall queens ever made.

knicks125
03-16-2005, 06:28 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mzoltarp</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Ford Focus is one of their choices and that car is one of the biggest recall queens ever made.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>and they took the focus off the list when the crash test came out <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">