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View Full Version : What's with all the diesel hoopla?


anonms
05-11-2005, 08:23 PM
I'm sure diesels are wonderful and are more consistent in their fuel efficiency.<p>But, as a Californian, why should I care if diesels are better than petrol-hybrids?<p>I mean, I read in a newspaper that, because of the emissions laws, consumers in California can't buy diesels anyways.<p><br>So since not everyone can acquire diesels, why must people constantly bash hybrids and claim diesels as superior? The emissions smell worse, too. I hate walking past 18-wheelers.

Cozz
05-12-2005, 05:23 AM
Diesels actually are cleaner on two of the three emissions let off by burning it.<p>Bio-diesels are right around the corner and gaining 25% in sales per year in the last 2 years. This mean less of a need to keep drilling unlike gas.<p>Diesel is also more powerful than gas. This is why trucks use diesel.<p>The new diesel technology from MB is ahead of the game with filters and what not. You don't know if it's gas or diesel by looking at the car run.<p>

ritmo
05-12-2005, 06:17 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iHug Trees</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why must people constantly bash hybrids</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Maybe I'm just prejudiced, but I consider the hybrids to be expensive gimmicks.<p>An excerpt from <A HREF="http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml" TARGET="_blank">this week's rant</A> at <A HREF="http://www.autoextremist.com/" TARGET="_blank">Autoextremist</A>:<p><I><B>6. The down side of hybrids.</B> I have yet to see mainstream journalists really hammer home the fact that there's almost a mythical aura growing up around hybrids that's not only undeserved, but it's irresponsible too. The true long-term costs of owning a hybrid have either been ignored or largely swept under the rug, as if some magical reaction will happen down the road that will have hybrids becoming self-regenerating or recycling devices that will free their shiny happy owners from ever dealing with the reality of ownership. That isn't true, and the media has been falling down at the job of telling the real story. The fact of the matter is that it's not just the battery replacement (outside of basic warranty coverage) that will have to be dealt with by consumers - the sub-systems in hybrids are frightfully expensive too, and no one has even bothered to mention that fact. As for the argument that the more hybrids there are on the road, the more the costs to repair them will go down, well, I'm not buying it. The horrendous cost of hybrid ownership will not hit the well-heeled owners scarfing them up now in their eagerness to make their own personal environmental statements - no, it will be the buyers of used hybrids who will face the music (the Associated Press reported this weekend that some buyers are so desperate to get a Prius that they're actually paying more for used one than they would for a new one - just to avoid the wait - so it's clear they're listening to different music altogether). These used hybrid shoppers will be presented with a kaleidoscope of problems, from batteries and sub-system replacement, to the fact that seriously pricey extended warranties will be absolutely mandatory and will have to be tacked on to the cost of ownership. What this is going to do to the actual resale value of these used hybrids remains to be seen, but suffice to say the true cost of hybrid ownership is a story that's being underserved by the media right now.</I>

Santeno
05-12-2005, 06:31 AM
another reason why hybrids are not superior is because you can outfid a hybrid power train to a diesel power plant just as easily as you can to a gasoline one. The net gains are probably lower than with gas, but it will extend a diesel's already impressive gas mailage.

knicks125
05-12-2005, 09:19 AM
In my opinion, choosing between diesel or hybrid, I would take the former. It's too bad we don't have many diesel cars available in the market.<p>Rather than explaining why I chose disel, I thought I would spin it around and tell why I wouldn't choose the hybrid. The reason is simple, for now, it's the price.<p>The price difference between a hybrid car and a regular gasoline car is too much, for now. The money saved from buying a gasoline car far exceed from the money spent on a hybrid car, here is an example:<p>Say I was in the market for a compact car, and I wanted to choose between a hybrid car and a regular one. Let's just say they were the prius and the civic, both are reliable cars so I'm not even going to worry about that factor. While the Civic can be had under 15k, out the door, the Prius are rarely sold below its MSRP (which I have no problem with becuase I realize the benefits of them, among others, environment, excellent gas mileage, better than the civic). That said, the Civic aren't that bad in the mileage department and can be had for 15k, while people who own prius paid somewhere around 30k. Now, the extra 15k I saved from buying a Civic, I'm sure that'd be plenty for me to buy gas over the period of ownership, and most likely with $$$ left.<p>I am sure in the upcoming years, technology will become better and the difference between a hybrid car and a regular car will be nominal. Despite the huge price differences, I am still very interested in alternatives, such as hybrid, electric, etc...however, until such technology can be readily made available without the extra and extra costs, I would pause for the time being...

olegk21
05-12-2005, 10:21 AM
Diesels: powerful, fuel-efficient, reliable, and now cleaner than before.<p>Hybrids: expensive, unproven reliability, costly to repair, lack power when compared to diesels.

Santeno
05-12-2005, 10:32 AM
wrong on the lack of power. That si true if hybrids are set up for ultimate fuel efficiency, but not so if they are set up for low range power (as with most of toyotas hybrids).

olegk21
05-12-2005, 10:55 AM
yeah, you're right.<br>lighter cars that don't need a lot of torque, but hybrids can't match the torque per dollar that is needed in large trucks and suv's<br>a diesel would be a much better choice for a suburban or an excursion. <p>Also, the E320 CDI gets almost 30mpg and delivers about 100 more ft-lb of torque than the same displacement gasoline model

zwei Biere bitte
05-12-2005, 02:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iHug Trees</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I mean, I read in a newspaper that, because of the emissions laws, consumers in California can't buy diesels anyways.<p><br>So since not everyone can acquire diesels, why must people constantly bash hybrids and claim diesels as superior? The emissions smell worse, too. I hate walking past 18-wheelers.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually, modern clean diesels don't really smell at all. <p>Also, when low sulfur fuel becomes mandatory on July 1, 2006, it will allow diesels to past the emissions tests here. For my mom's next car, we're going to wait until then and get a diesel, which should be nice...