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View Full Version : Need help a Porshce dealer is trying to screw me... Please h


deniskomninakis
04-08-2005, 05:35 PM
Well about 5 motnhs ago i walked into a Porsche dealership and place a 1000$ deposit to be on the waiting list for the new boxster 2005. That was in November. Since then by email(with the salesman) i've specced my car and given a total of 10 000$ for a downpayment, I was going to lease the boxster for 4 years with 10 grand down. Now 2 weeks before i was to pick up the car they had me fill out a credit application form(which my name is good for most dealerships aka Mercedes, BMW, toyota) it came back that although my name is good i don't have enough credit for them to lease me the car. (?) I'm 26 years old and my brother and i own 2 business'. Anyway so the salesman asked me if someone can co-sign for me. I got my brother who owns enough property and his own business to be enough. Again they told me he didn't have enought credit. Yesterday night i got into a heated conversation with the salesman and his manager because they wanted me be open to the possiblity of an independant leasing company which he said would 100% accept me but charge me more per month . Ofcourse they would their legal loan sharks! Or i can give another 10 000 downpayment and Porsche would let me lease with that ammount down. Those were my 2 options according to them. I said no to both and that if your not willing to lease me the car i'll take back my 10 000 deposit. Foolishly i said how much would i loose from my deposit? He said all if not more?????????????????????? The guys don't want to lease me the car and they would take my deposit too???? I called a mercedes dealership aswell as my lawyer and they both told me that they could not do that only if i changed my mind about the car would i maybe be charged a certain amount but since *their* not accepting my credit i should get all of my money back right??? As of today they are still trying to convince porsche (head office in the US) to let me lease it. The ysaid that over in the US when checking someone from canada they only lok at numbers like salary. Property, business' and others don't show up. Thats not my fault.<p>Am i right?

chaserolls
04-08-2005, 07:02 PM
That is total BS, this type of stuff happens all the time. I've had a couple dealerships try to pull this on me, but I've spoken with my attorney as well and know people who work for dealerships, so they've filled me in on the truth.<p>They can not take your deposit under any circumstances. They are just trying to scare you. You got to remember that it's their job to sell cars under whatever circumstances, so they'll pull out all kinds of BS trying to scare or intimidate you into buying a car from them.<p>Call Porsche North America and report the dealership to them and inform them that you're aware of your rights and that they can not legally do this to you.<p>You put down a deposit on a vehicle, you changed your mind about purchasing the vechicle once they informed you that you'd have to pay a high interest rate, so you get your deposit back and they sell the ordered vehicle to someone else or they do a dealer trade. It's not a big deal for the dealership to get rid of the ordered car and if they say otherwise they are just trying to scare you again.<p>Just stay calm and inform them that you've spoken with your attorney and are aware of your rights, that should be enough to make them change their tune . . . so they'll probably try to lay a guilt trip on you, but don't worry about that either

deniskomninakis
04-08-2005, 08:34 PM
great thanks i even spoke today to a mercedes dealer and he told me the same thing you just said that they can't do anything and even at worst if i were to change my mind about the car i can get all of my deposit back and that they are trying to scare me.<p>You 've been a big help thanks a lot!!!!!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bowdown.gif" BORDER="0">

deniskomninakis
04-08-2005, 08:39 PM
And the thing that kills me is that i still want the car it's just they want me to go through an independant leasing company(legal loan sharks) and i would have to pay atleast a couple of hundreds of dollars more a month on top of the high interest rate i was to pay through porsche financing 7.1%<p><br>He's to get back to me by monday to see if he and his manager can do anything to let me lease it through them if not i take my money back and look for another car.<p><br>

Naga Royal Guard
04-08-2005, 08:41 PM
you might just have to swallow it for now - get your money back and go for an SLK <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Shomare
04-08-2005, 09:11 PM
I kid you not, this is an Oman<p>Run, as fast as you can and stay away from that deal and dealership right now. If they do this to you, what else can you expect from them?<p>I learned this the hard way once with a VW dealership. Never again.<p>It's a sign I tell you....

mzoltarp
04-09-2005, 06:19 AM
I had this kind of an experience when my wife and I ordered an Element--cash sale--and the dealer couldn't figure out how to place the order with Honda. I called Honda headquarters and then had a friend of mine--lawyer--call them on my behalf. The dealer got slapped around by Honda yet still had the nerve to call me up and blast me on the phone--answering machine. Lawyer took a copy of that and we went to the dealer. Long story short the Element materialized as ordered within a week. The dealer threatened to keep the deposit if I walked. Absolutely illegal. Unless there is a signed contract which states that if you change your mind they keep the deposit, they cannot keep a cent. The Honda dealer had not made me sign anything of the sort. If the Porsche dealer did not enter into a contract in which penalties are specified, then you get it all. If they keep the deposit and you have to go after them legally you may wind up with double the amount of deposit for punitive damages.

deniskomninakis
04-09-2005, 02:32 PM
the only thing i signed was when i went in to give my 1000$ deposit to be on the waiting list they made me sign a general purchase form. After 2 weeks i decided to get the slk he told it would be no problem to get my deposit back. So if thats the only documents i've signed i should be fine right? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

Fcuke
04-09-2005, 05:24 PM
Of course you have the rights to get back your money. Not if you'd changed your mind, but when they change their mind, it's not your fault and you have the rights to get your money back.<p>Go for a BMW Z4 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

deniskomninakis
04-09-2005, 07:34 PM
i was told even if *i* changed my mind i would be able to get all of y money back. Under all circomstances you get your money back. If you or they change their mind. They are not allowed to keep your money with no car. <p>The gu ytold me fro mPorsche when i asked foolishly if i would be charged for this that i "would lose my deposit and if not more" thats completely illegal. What are they going to do i don't get the car and i lose my 10 000 deposit on to pof that they wil lsend me a bill??????????? C'mon guys? Riiiiiiiiiight. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

neburg964
04-09-2005, 11:31 PM
There's only one way they might be able to keep some of your deposit, but I'm not an attorney so I may be wrong about this...<p>If you ordered a car that was considered a "special order, not representative of the dealer's market" they could charge you a fee. But they would have to have advised you that you were ordering an undesirable car.<p>Let's say you wanted a bright lime green car with screaming yellow leather interior and a red canvas roof, because you were in love with intersection lights and wanted a car in the same color combination. Porsche would build such a horror if you agreed to pay the price. The dealer is responsible for buying the car from Porsche and then selling it to you; such a car might (?!?) be considered "unsellable" and the dealer would be within his rights to keep your deposit, in order to use the money to "buy down" his cost on the car and thus minimize his loss.<p>Of course, if the dealer had any brains he would have you leave a "special order fee" because while "deposits" are refundable, fees are not. If you gave a deposit, I'd say you are entitled to get it back.<p>Let us know what happens.

Hornbag
04-10-2005, 05:31 AM
When i read the title i thought' Geez, this Porsche dealer must be horny!' LOL!!!!<br>But then i read your senario, its not as funny.

mzoltarp
04-10-2005, 08:13 AM
Makes no difference if you order a pink Porsche with lime interior or one that the dealer would typically sell. If the deposit was taken but there was no contractural agreement that the deposit was non-refundable (or penalty for cancellation), the deposit has to be returned. That said, I wonder what Porsche dealer would not have just such a contract. If anything got signed read the fine print.

deniskomninakis
04-10-2005, 01:35 PM
your right mzolarp but the only thing i've ever signed at porsche EVER was when i first walked in to leave a 1000$ deposit for the waiting list and he had me sign a green paper. I've looked over it but will read the fine print tomorrow..that's when i hear from my dealer if they will be able to lease me the car through porsche finance.<p><br>But listen i'm not backing off from leasing this car i still want this car. If they can't lease me the through porsche they *HAVE* to give me my deposit back since it's them that are not willing to leae me the car. Again i want the car they want me to to lease the car through an independant leasing company(loan sharks if you ask me) and pay a couple of hundred dollars extra a month.<p>I think i'm 100% right on this.<p>I'll hear fro mthem tomorrow so will let you guys know. Even the guy from mercedes told me that they can't do anythign to my deposit especially since their not willing to lease me the car.

neburg964
04-10-2005, 05:16 PM
Not all independent leasing companies are "loan sharks"; in fact, the factory-sponsored lease programs are not always the best. If you lived in the Tri-State area (NY-NJ-Conn) or in Southern California I may have been able to help you.<p>Many independents are hooked up with 20-30 lending institutions. SOmetimes, a smaller institution may have a more liberal lending policy. Many times, you may find someone with lower rates, or higher residuals. When I worked for a Pontiac-GMC dealer in Southern California, we rarely ran Suburban leases through GMAC. Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Key Bank all had better programs.<p>Your Porsche dealer may only have access to Porsche Finance, depending on his arrangement with the parent company. And thus, his hands may be tied. If he has access to a machine like the Lease Prophet, which is updated 4 times a day with the latest programs from every available lender, then he should be able to find a program you qualify for - and possibly at a better deal than what the dealer is offering.<p>Also, if you gave a "deposit" you are entitled to a refund, no questions asked, unless it was presented as a "fee" with special conditions. Also, if Porsche Finance turns you down, its not the dealer saying no but Porsche Finance itself. Another Porsche dealer will have the same result, which is yet another reason to contact an independent.<p>You may be able to find a reputable independent leasing company in Montreal through the Internet. I don't know what the market is like up there, so I really have no other advice. Good Luck!

deniskomninakis
04-10-2005, 06:18 PM
thanks well i will find out tomorrow it's a joke that i wasn't accepted and my salesman said so too. I was accepted at mercedes no problem.<p>Anyway my dealer told me that my monthly payments would be higher and considering it's already high due to the fact of the options i put on it if porsche says no i take my money back and go for the SLK.<p>Will let you guys know how it goes tomorrow! fingers crossed i still get to lease the boxster! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0">

chaserolls
04-10-2005, 08:33 PM
<br>EVEN if you did sign a document, they still can't take your money. <p>The deposit was for a car. You don't get the car, they don't get your money. This is how the Lotus dealership explained it to me when the Audi dealership tried to pull this on me. <p>If you're really concerned about this whole deal, I advise you to go with the SLK Merc (nicer car anyway) and let that mercedes dealership deal with getting your deposit back. Just pass the buck, delegate the responsibility, whatever you want to call it. Point is, dealerships are there to help you, SO let them help you. I'm sure if you started the paperwork on a SLK and explained to the Merc dealership that they needed to get your deposit back, they'd say "No problem!" since they deal with this stuff on a daily basis and know which strings to pull to get a quick proper response

TheJoyof6
04-10-2005, 09:55 PM
OMG you were putting 10k down for a lease. I stopped reading your post after the second line. You need to find out what your credit score is and then read the fine print on the contract you signed when you preoreded your car to see if your entitled to your deposit should you cancel the order. Im sure the dealership will keep a percentage of the deposit. <br>If your putting 10k down on a lease for 4 years then you would be better off financing the car.

deniskomninakis
04-11-2005, 05:41 PM
thejoyof6 how can a dealership keep a deposit when i get no car? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> If i cancelled the order i would see your point but i'm not cancelling. I don't have to check my credit score before that's BS. If my credit is good enough for mercedes & BMW it's fine thank you. 10K is a big ammount for leasing and i'm sure they'll figure out a way to lease me the cae if not i go for the SLK.<p>It's not my fault they can't lease it to me. Well they were suppose to get back to me today but they didn't i should find out tomorrow. let you guys know what happens tomorrow. fingers crossed. But like you guys have said i've read the paper i signed(the only thing i've signed at porsche on this boxster) and it doesn't state anything about the deposit. I was told by a lawyer today under any circumstances they can't <B>keep your deposit.</B>

Dan J.
04-11-2005, 06:34 PM
Take them to court. they can't keep your deposit.

Verdegrrl
04-11-2005, 06:51 PM
I've worked at a dealership and ordered many cars for clients. Every deal is different, and every situation is different. I can only respond to what I've read in your post. You may not want to hear it, but it's honest advice learned over thousands of deals. <p>Of course this applies mainly if you're in the USA.<p>They cannot keep your deposit unless you agreed and signed up front that they could keep part or all of the deposit if for some reason you should back out (or the deal becomes unworkable - since it's your responsiblity to know your credit rating when undertaking this kind of venture). I've done that a few times on custom order cars with questionable combos. All but one took the car, and the guy who flaked, gave up $1000 as a way to offset the hit we took when selling the car.<p>No dealer wants to turn somebody over to an outside leasing company unless they can get a cut of the money factor (interest rate). The only reason dealers do this, is to get the deal "bought" at all. They would usually much rather use their own financing and leasing company when possible. It's a big hassle to go outside unless dealing with a large bank like Chase or BofA. In that case they sometimes have better rates. A good finance office knows those rates inside out. Our "B" tier customers usually went through Onyx Acceptance, which didn't have the best rates, but they weren't too bad. You do need the finance dept on your side, as they can sometimes negotiate on your behalf, to get a better rate. <p>Sounds like you don't have the depth of credit for such a large purchase on portable goods. It happens a lot to business people who are starting out young, or perhaps don't come from here and do many transactions in cash. Now keep in mind the more times your credit gets run in a certain time period, the more it brings your score down, so don't give permission for everybody to run it. Make a number of $1000 to $5000 purchases on credit, and pay them back over the course of 12 months. Less than that, doesn't hold nearly so much weight.<p>Sorry to say but lack of depth of credit is your problem, not the dealer's. You need to build up your credit to where it's acceptable for the kind of purchases you want to make. IMHO you should not get this or any high priced car on a lease for the time being. Get the credit thing straightened out, whether that takes 6 months or 24 months. That way you'll be able to demand the best terms on virtually anything you want, and you won't have to pay through the nose to get it.<p>Oh, and don't put down nearly that much on the lease up front. Sure it buys down the payments, but most gap insurance policies don't cover the down payment, so if anything happens to the car, you're out the $10K. Also, leasing is a good way to free up cash so you can invest it in something that appreciates rather than depreciates like a car. By tying up so much cash, you kind of defeat the advantage. If the payments are too high, I strongly suggest you look at a less expensive car or buy a previously owned version on a manufacturer certified warranty program.

deniskomninakis
04-11-2005, 07:32 PM
i haven't signed anything that states they can keep my deposit. i'ven spoken to a merc dealer he has said the samething. I signed a 1000$ deposit to be on a waiting list. Between then (november 2004) and now i gave them 9000$ more with nothing signed. It should be very easy for me to get my deposit back with legal action if it should get to that.<p><br>How do you explain the manager at porshce telling me i would lose all of my deopsit if no more??????????????? that's a joke and completely illegal.<p><br>That said i'm 100% sure i an get my money if they don't let me lease the automobile.

neburg964
04-12-2005, 08:07 AM
Hi Denis,<p>It appears that you put all this money down to be on a list? This was not a deposit on a specific car if I'm reading this right. Probably, the dealer has a limited supply of vehicles coming in and your deposit was to secure your opportunity to buy or lease the car. If that is the case, then you are entitled to 100 percent of your money back, no questions asked.<p>A dealer cannot hold you contractually to a "downpayment" on a non-existent vehicle, unless this was a "special order fee" as I mentioned before, on what would be considered an undesirable unit. And in that particular circumstance, the wording on whatever documentation you signed would have been very specific. <p>What probably happened is an enthusiastic salesman talked you into putting money on a waiting list. They didn't check your credit at the time you did this; if they had, they could have told you you might have trouble qualifying. Of course, you might not have wanted your credit checked until you were actually going to get your new car.<p>You should ask the Porsche dealer to tell you specifically why Porsche credit turned you down. If the reason had been attributed to the depth of your credit (such as no history, not a homeowner, things like that) they may be able to get your deal purchased if you provide other corraborating information, such as bank statements, paycheck stubs, etc. I was able to get many deals bought because I called the finance company and argued with them until they gave in to me. Chances are, the finance manager at this dealership is lazy and does not want to invest his time. If you don't qualify immediately, he thinks you don't deserve a Porsche.<p>Again, find out if there are any reputable independent leasing firms in your area, and go talk to them. They are not "legal loan sharks". See what they can do for you. Don't get a Mercedes SLK just to spite the Porsche dealer. That's a dumb move. Get the Mercedes because you prefer it. The Porsche dealer will be bothered for maybe 5 minutes before they move on to the next customer. You, on the other hand, will be stuck with your decision for the next couple of years. Make sure its a decision you can live with.<p>Good Luck, Denis!

deniskomninakis
04-12-2005, 09:55 AM
yeah i signed the waiting list contract and it says on it the options will be decided when prices are available. Not even the price of the car is on it. It's a basic contract i've read it and it doesn't state it will keep my deposit.<p><br>I specced the car by email and phone. And in a 5 month time period i paid 9000$ more. Which makes it 10 000$ to date.<br>I like both the slk and the boxster but to be honest the boxster more. i'm guessing your 100% right about the manager thinking i don't deserve the porsche since they were suppose to get back to me on friday and they didn't i called them and he said he would get back to me on monday which he didn't. I was suppose to pick up the car on the 19th of april. I even booked my insurance on that date. Geez other dealerships like BMW, mercedes & others hound me for months when i walk into their delaer interested in a car these guys are playing it a little too cool for me. I know porsches are more popular these days and more "in" than before but just 10 years ago the boxster is what saved porsche from closing it's doors. You would think they would be a little more eager to sell a car.

Verdegrrl
04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>deniskomninakis</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Geez other dealerships like BMW, mercedes & others hound me for months when i walk into their delaer interested in a car these guys are playing it a little too cool for me. I know porsches are more popular these days and more "in" than before but just 10 years ago the boxster is what saved porsche from closing it's doors. You would think they would be a little more eager to sell a car.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>They've got a waiting list. They probably don't "need" your deal (although I think it's stupid of them to burn bridges) to sell those cars - for now anyway. The other dealers don't have a hot car like the new Boxster at the moment. Try getting on the list for the new CLS or M5, and it would probably different - especially if they run your credit.<p>NeBurg is right: sit down with the finance person and find what exactly is causing the problem. Since you're going to have to look at and drive this thing every day for some years, get exactly what you want, or don't go there at all. Either find an outside leasing company you can work with, or hold off and fix the credit thing so it's never an issue again. The Boxsters will still be there in 6 months, and you probably won't have to pay through the nose. That kind of self control usually pays off handsomely in the long run by saving you money and giving you more options.<p>Look at it this way.... when is that last time a salesperson(me) told you to hold off buying a car? It goes against the grain, but I'm telling you this for your own good like I would a personal friend <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

deniskomninakis
04-12-2005, 07:51 PM
yeah well i specced the car with every possible option and the monthly payment is very high. They'll have trouble finding a buyer to put down 10K and lease it for 1300$ canadian a month taxes. My salesman called me 1 hour ago he gave my number to a ind. leasing company and the guy called me soon after. He gave me his "best" price. He lied and said it was only 50$ more when it was really 100$.<p><br>Looks like i'm going for the slk & calling tomorrow porsche to get my deposit back. now the hard work and calling them to get my deopsit back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
04-13-2005, 08:01 AM
Man Just get your money back and go see some other porsche dealer.

chaserolls
04-14-2005, 04:03 PM
For the record: it wasn't commonwealth audi who was playing games with me, it was that audi dealership on PCH in Newport (name escapes me at the moment) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>I can't complain about buying my S4 at Commonwealth<p>As for the problem at hand - if you want to get your money back, then get it back. You have every right to do that and they shouldn't stand in your way from getting it back. Call Porsche Cars North America Inc. and complain about the dealership's mistreatment of you. That should help <p>here's their number: 1 800 545 8039 <p><A HREF="http://www.consumerhotline.com/Automobile.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.consumerhotline.com/Automobile.htm</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by chaserolls at 4:09 PM 4/14/2005</i>

mzoltarp
04-16-2005, 06:49 AM
Come to Bakersfield. There is no waiting list on the Boxster. The dealer has about 15 on the lot and they are all just gathering dust. A friend of mine bought a left over (new) 2004 Cayenne for $750 over invoice and she could have gotten an even better deal on a Boxster.

Shomare
04-16-2005, 01:40 PM
I have a question.<p>I know it is going to seem hard ass and all to say so but here goes.<p>How in the hell is it that you make enough money to be able to consider leasing something in this price range and yet, you can't seem to negotiate / resolve this issue?<p>Leaves me scratching my head.....<p>I'd had had my money that first day. <p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0">

IcedG35
04-28-2005, 06:05 PM
I forget who said it, but i agree....F THE BOXTER AND GET A SLK55...plus u seem to get along just fine with the MERC dealership

deniskomninakis
04-28-2005, 06:17 PM
Just to let you know i picked up the boxster today as my brother as a co-sign it was enough to lease the boxster. And i test drove the new slk last week and opted for the boxster...thank god i did!!!!!!!<p><br>Wow that engine sound is incredible. I literally picked up the car 2 hours ago. I keep looking out my window to see if it's still in my garage. I'm like a 12year old kid. Pathetic i know but it's my first porsche boxster. I now understand the raves this car keeps getting from magazines and such...it's a fantastic car and looks better that the older version.<p>Thansk to everyone for the info and your opinions it really, really helped me a lot and gave me some prespective.<p><br>Wow i'm so over the moon in love with this car.

IcedG35
04-28-2005, 06:20 PM
congradulations...glad it ended up for the best

boston
05-02-2005, 09:02 AM
Saw this thread when you posted and wondered how it would end up. I was really worried that the dealer had seen someone he could take advantage of and was doing exactly that. <br>I hope that you are able to successfully pay your way through the lease and in doing so, improve your credit rating. AFAIK, credit ratings can be improved by simply having credit cards but not using them.