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View Full Version : Why does BMW not participate in the DTM???


Comrade
04-05-2005, 03:16 PM
Even MG Rover has joined Audi, Mercedes and Opel to compete in the German Touring Car Championship this year. This would be excellent marketing for the 3-series IMO. Why not BMW?

KebabGud
04-05-2005, 03:31 PM
what the hell is MG Rover doing i DTM?<br>BMW is tied up in BTCC <p>DTM is going back to the old days when volvo was king .. <br>wassnt the new DTM going to be limited to German makers?

Cozz
04-05-2005, 04:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what the hell is MG Rover doing i DTM?<br>BMW is tied up in BTCC <p>DTM is going back to the old days when volvo was king .. <br>wassnt the new DTM going to be limited to German makers? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The real reason is because they could never beat MB nomatter how many M's were on the trunk lid. So they went to a different race.<p>PS. starting crap. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0">

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 04:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The real reason is because they could never beat MB nomatter how many M's were on the trunk lid. So they went to a different race.<p>PS. starting crap. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>dont you mean /// ////M's ?

Cozz
04-06-2005, 04:55 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>dont you mean /// ////M's ?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, ///////////////////////////////MMMMMMMMMMMMMM's

Mindless T
04-06-2005, 05:51 PM
Whats Dtm?

KebabGud
04-06-2005, 06:22 PM
DTM is "Deutschen Tourenwagen Masters"<br>in other words.. the German Touring Car Championship :P<br>the third(?) fastes GT series in the world..<br>

Comrade
04-06-2005, 10:23 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The real reason is because they could never beat MB nomatter how many M's were on the trunk lid. So they went to a different race.<p>PS. starting crap. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>You're kinda right, but that was way back in 1993. They should give it a try after 10 years cuz DTM took a break from '97 until '99.<br>BTW, Audi won last year with only a "s-line" as the label. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>So what's BTCC? British?

KebabGud
04-07-2005, 05:10 AM
yes .. BTCC is the British Touring Car Championship<p>but DTM is more of a GT series

Verdegrrl
04-07-2005, 11:30 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The real reason is because they could never beat MB nomatter how many M's were on the trunk lid. So they went to a different race.<p>PS. starting crap. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Ahem,<p>Alfa won the 1993 DTM championship with the 155. The ITC technically took over from the DTM in 1995 (having run concurrently with the DTM for a few years prior). They also won the BTCC championship for 1994. <p> <IMG SRC="http://totalcar.index.hu/images/testbemutato/alfa155/dtm1.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>'Ring times by DTM cars<br><A HREF="http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32546/nbring/timesby.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32546/nbring/timesby.htm</A> <p>See the 155 section for a cool movie of the DTM 155 in action.<br><A HREF="http://www.carsfromitaly.com/alfaromeo/index.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.carsfromitaly.com/alfaromeo/index.html</A> <p> <IMG SRC="http://www.autosport.nl/webhosting/alfa/2004/etcc/race6/farfus.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Present day WTCC info<br><A HREF="http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/motorsport/touring_cars/wtcc/03/media_day/tuesday.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiaspeed.com/200....html</A><p>So far Alfa has notched up 102 victories because over 90 years Alfa cars have won: 5 world championships, 11 Mille Miglia races, 10 Targa Florio races, 4 Le Mans 24 hour races, 13 European Touring Championships, 9 Makes Championships, 4 Drivers' Championships, 10 Italian F3 Championships, 5 European F3 Championships, 5 European F3 Cups, 7 French F3 Championships, 3 German F3 Championships, 1 Motoring Tour of Italy, 1 German Touring Championship (DTM), 1 British Touring Championship (BTCC), 1 Spanish Touring Championship, 2 Italian Supertouring Championships (156-ST), 7 European Historical Gran Turismo Championships and 4 European Classic Touring Car Championships. <p>

Cozz
04-07-2005, 06:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Verdegrrl</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Ahem,<p>Alfa won the 1993 DTM championship with the 155. The ITC technically took over from the DTM in 1995 (having run concurrently with the DTM for a few years prior). They also won the BTCC championship for 1994. <p> <IMG SRC="http://totalcar.index.hu/images/testbemutato/alfa155/dtm1.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>'Ring times by DTM cars<br><A HREF="http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32546/nbring/timesby.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32546/nbring/timesby.htm</A> <p>See the 155 section for a cool movie of the DTM 155 in action.<br><A HREF="http://www.carsfromitaly.com/alfaromeo/index.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.carsfromitaly.com/alfaromeo/index.html</A> <p> <IMG SRC="http://www.autosport.nl/webhosting/alfa/2004/etcc/race6/farfus.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Present day WTCC info<br><A HREF="http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/motorsport/touring_cars/wtcc/03/media_day/tuesday.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiaspeed.com/200....html</A><p>So far Alfa has notched up 102 victories because over 90 years Alfa cars have won: 5 world championships, 11 Mille Miglia races, 10 Targa Florio races, 4 Le Mans 24 hour races, 13 European Touring Championships, 9 Makes Championships, 4 Drivers' Championships, 10 Italian F3 Championships, 5 European F3 Championships, 5 European F3 Cups, 7 French F3 Championships, 3 German F3 Championships, 1 Motoring Tour of Italy, 1 German Touring Championship (DTM), 1 British Touring Championship (BTCC), 1 Spanish Touring Championship, 2 Italian Supertouring Championships (156-ST), 7 European Historical Gran Turismo Championships and 4 European Classic Touring Car Championships. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually it was a joke towards BMW and nothing more. You don't have to worry about trying to teach me about DTM as I was a big fan back in the days. I owned a MB 190E 2.3 16 valve and was close to buying a 2.5 Evo. I also bought (ans still have)a Merkur Xr4ti (Ford Sierra) and bought the Cosworth kit and suspension. I was never able to get the motor though. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0">

MontrealMustang
04-11-2005, 10:13 AM
Know what's kind of funny about DTM? A well set up Nascar racer will keep up with those cars for 1/10th their price and a Trans Am will run circles around them. As primitive and bulky as those cars are compared to the sophisticated DTM's.

KebabGud
04-11-2005, 10:58 AM
in a straight line and oval yes .. but not on the tracks..<br>

Verdegrrl
04-12-2005, 12:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MontrealMustang</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Know what's kind of funny about DTM? A well set up Nascar racer will keep up with those cars for 1/10th their price and a Trans Am will run circles around them. As primitive and bulky as those cars are compared to the sophisticated DTM's.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Really? It looks like it costs around $5 million to run a car for a season, and a big league teams can spend $20 to 30 million. The German DTM requires that the standard V8 shared by all teams cannot be replaced all season, while a Nascar team may bring up to 3 engines per race! Teams can tune those engines pretty much as they wish. Modern DTM cars are tube frame built cars much like Nascar, while Touring cars run with a full factory chassis, with a built-in roll cage. The DTM cars also must run standardized gearboxes and the same basic aero elements.<p><A HREF="http://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/nascar/nascar101.jhtml?id=0.1.4.29&lc=en" TARGET="_blank">http://www.kodak.com/US/en/con...lc=en</A> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually it was a joke towards BMW and nothing more. You don't have to worry about trying to teach me about DTM as I was a big fan back in the days. I owned a MB 190E 2.3 16 valve and was close to buying a 2.5 Evo. I also bought (ans still have)a Merkur..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry, I must have missed the smiley <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Almost bought a 16v Merc, but was turned off by the neutered engine when compared to the Europeans. The E30 M3 was too high strung for daily street use in stop and go LA. Bought the Alfa 3.0 instead (actually, several over the years).

Uberwagon
04-14-2005, 09:06 PM
Wow, you and Cozz had some sweet rides back in the day! Which Alfa 3.0 was that? My uncle had an E30 M3 back then and let me drive it a number of times -- VERY peaky but OH SO much fun for a then-16 year old like me! The thing felt like a race car but I think we could've used the Evo version. He drove that thing on the streets of LA for four looooong years too. Now that's endurance! Those 16V 190's were stunners back then too. Did those both come out of touring car homologation? <p>Alright, I'm getting off topic. Sorry folks, I can't help a good reminiscing! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

Verdegrrl
04-15-2005, 03:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Uberwagon</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, you and Cozz had some sweet rides back in the day! Which Alfa 3.0 was that? My uncle had an E30 M3 back then and let me drive it a number of times -- VERY peaky but OH SO much fun for a then-16 year old like me! The thing felt like a race car but I think we could've used the Evo version.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I still have my Milano Verde. She's up to 255,000 miles on the original engine. We also have another specially prepped Milano Verde that can keep up with the E36 M3s <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> and a 164 LS (also known as the Super in other parts of the world).<p> <IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/verdegrrl/.Pictures/Shiny-Alfa/alfa-2.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>At the Alfa club time trails at Laguna Seca Raceway.<p><IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/verdegrrl/.Pictures/track/V6-line.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/verdegrrl/.Pictures/barge.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/verdegrrl/.Pictures/fang.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I've taken a few E30 M3s in trade at the dealer over the years. You're right, peaky, but fun in the canyons. Guy down the street has an immaculate silver E30 M3. I drool when I go by <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0">

Cozz
04-15-2005, 03:54 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Uberwagon</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, you and Cozz had some sweet rides back in the day! Which Alfa 3.0 was that? My uncle had an E30 M3 back then and let me drive it a number of times -- VERY peaky but OH SO much fun for a then-16 year old like me! The thing felt like a race car but I think we could've used the Evo version. He drove that thing on the streets of LA for four looooong years too. Now that's endurance! Those 16V 190's were stunners back then too. Did those both come out of touring car homologation? <p>Alright, I'm getting off topic. Sorry folks, I can't help a good reminiscing! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I no longer have the 16 valve. Sold it many years ago. I did like it because it was in a easier class in SCCA racing while the M3 was in one higher level yet the same thing. People there always thought that it was wrong for the 16 valve to be in a lower class because of the 4 doors. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Uberwagon
04-18-2005, 08:24 PM
Cozz, Verdegrrl, you are my peeps. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Looking forward to the Brera/159 are we? I am! <p>Back to DTM: Is the new 159 going to run in DTM or other series?

Comrade
04-18-2005, 09:45 PM
DTM has started and MB won Hockenheim. No sign of MG, even tho it's on the website <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> . There was something about them debuting in Hamburg, but no date and there is only a scetch of the car <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Anyway, it would be really cool to see Alfa back. Is there any info? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

Verdegrrl
04-19-2005, 02:09 PM
Alfa presently runs in the European Touring Car Championship. BMW is there as well. With Fiat's money troubles, I don't know if Alfa will enter the expensive DTM ring when they already have a solid reputation in this venue. <p>The 159/Brera will offer the awd system first seen in the 156 Sportcross. It's an active system that is really an offshoot of the old 164Q4. I've driven the Q4 and it's impressive.<p> <A HREF="http://www.fiatouringcars.com/2k4/?callpage=tracks/track0003.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.fiatouringcars.com/...3.asp</A><p> <A HREF="http://www.italiancar.com.au/pilot/feature012.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiancar.com.au/pilot/feature012.htm</A>