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View Full Version : Attention Automakers! If you build this, we will come!


neburg964
04-04-2005, 09:43 PM
This is for Bob Lutz. It's the gist of a thread I started on Autoweek.com.<p>I'm throwing this challenge out to any or all automakers. We want somebody to build us a:<p>GREAT SIMPLE DRIVER'S CAR:<p>The prerequisites are:<p>1) Powerful 4-cyl engine (160 hp or greater)<br>2) Rear wheel drive<br>3) 4-seater<br>4) 3-box design (conventional trunk)<p>In fact, we already have 4 cars with suitable platforms with the necessary hardware in place to make this happen:<p>Saturn Sky<br>Pontiac Solstice<br>Honda S-2000<br>Mazda Miata<p>Remember the late great Sentra SE-R? Although it was front-wheel drive. when it came out it was heralded as a spiritual successor to the BMW 2002. Well, one of these 4 automakers could do the same thing. Take any one of these very capable platforms and slip it under a practical 2-door sedan body. They all would be easy for us home-grown mechanics to work on - how tough would it be to change the spark plugs, oil, air filter, etc., on a front-engine RWD sedan?<p>It would have plenty of room for us to get us through our everyday chores, offer reasonable gas mileage, and because of their design, probably give us a fuel tank with more than adequate capacity. It would be comfortable to live with everyday, with a decent ride. The room would also be there for us to use the car as a weekend getaway vehicle, or to take on a long trip. This would be an excellent and less costly alternative to the Evo or WRX; I don't need to drive a 4-wheeled hand grenade every day.<p>The powertrain would provide us with an entertaining ride on the twisties; imagine the crisp gearshift throws and the responsive engine! This car would also make an excellent SCCA weekend racer. And since it wouldn't be seen as a pure sports car by the insurance companies, insurance would probably be reasonable.<p>Because it's a simple car, it'll be simple to modify. So if we want to install our own stereos, Recaro seats, whatever, all we need is a socket set.<p>I'd even be happy with a manual sliding steel sunroof instead of a power moonroof, to save complexity and weight. You could even throw front vent windows on it, we all loved those! And with that genuine transmission residing below the gearshift lever, and not just a collection of rods and cables, you can keep an automatic transmission off of the options list!<p>How enjoyable would this car be?<p>There is no reason this cannot be done; it could be brought to market for less than $20K, base price. I would personally be thrilled to see this come out with an American nameplate (Pontiac Tempest? Saturn Calypso or Hyperion?)<p>Bob, please make this happen!

KebabGud
04-05-2005, 02:44 AM
so you want a BMW 320i (E90) ? or a Toyota Altezza RS200? ...

neburg964
04-05-2005, 04:05 AM
Yes, in a way. The 3 series has become too heavy, complex, and expensive, at least in the U.S. The Altezza is only available as a 4-door and here in the States, it's a Lexus so it too is pricey.<p>If you could imagine a Mazda MX-5 Miata in a two-door sedan bodyshell (a usable back seat and a trunk) with a minimum of power features (windows and locks only) and cloth upholstery, you'd be there.<p>You can't get the BMW so equipped here.

KebabGud
04-05-2005, 04:49 AM
basicly a AE86 .. you want a new AE86? <br>your not the only one..<br>

Fcuke
04-05-2005, 07:12 AM
howcome the 320 being more expensive now than before? The new on is less expensive than the former. It has less power to tho, but it's still the nicest car! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Comrade
04-05-2005, 09:47 AM
That's a good idea. The only alternative I can suggest is to get a used BMW.

KebabGud
04-05-2005, 11:21 AM
or make toyota make a new AE86 ..<br>

neburg964
04-05-2005, 12:16 PM
I don't think Toyota would make the investment, but it would be nice to see them get in this game. The more, the merrier!<p>Amazingly so, I think GM is best positioned to do a car like this. The Kappa platform is perfect for this car. And it could be produced worldwide. It would make a great Opel or Vauxhall for Europe. <p>And yes, a used BMW would fit the bill but I'm looking for a powerful 4-cyl car with a minimum of extra equipment. Such a car might be available in Europe, but not in the States. A used 318i just doesn't have the power, and I really don't feel like buying a used car.

Santeno
04-05-2005, 12:19 PM
Here you go automakers, give me a car that does a little bit of most things and does most of them noticeably above-average. Throw in a decent price, attractive and original styling, good fuel efficiency and very high long term quality, and you will find me knocking on your door for many years to come.

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 04:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and you will find me knocking on your door for many years to come.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>does that mean you will be constantly taking it in for service?

Nick
04-05-2005, 06:10 PM
give me an E39 M5 for free...that's the perfect car at the perfect price!

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 06:16 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">give me an E39 M5 for free...that's the perfect car at the perfect price!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>that car is worth its weight in gold

anonms
04-05-2005, 08:27 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or make toyota make a new AE86 ..<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I want a hybrid AE86!

neburg964
04-05-2005, 11:05 PM
Yeah, the AE86 is the right way of thinking. I wasn't sure what this was until I looked it up.<p>The AE86 was a great car!

mzoltarp
04-06-2005, 05:44 AM
GM isn't smart enough to stretch the Solstice/Sky chassis and do a BMW 2002 sort of car for Cadillac with the CTS's V6. I think a more ballsy engine than a 4 cylinder is want Americans want. The Honda S2000's engine is great engineering but dumb in practice. Sure it's fast, once you rev the hell out of it. VW's VR6 is tons of torque and makes great noises. I'd take the latter.

Top Secret
04-06-2005, 05:57 AM
I reckon Scion has a good idea with the budget coupe thing with the tC. I'd like to see more manufacturer's doing more stuff like that.

neburg964
04-06-2005, 06:14 AM
Scion's car is great, but it doesn't follow "The Formula", and I wasn't asking for a car to be built for Cadillac. Not even necessarily a BMW 2002, but something that follows along those lines.<p>The 1985-87 AE86 Corolla GTS is EXACTLY what I am talking about. A simple, basic, powerful 4-cyl REAR wheel drive car with a usable back seat and trunk. The Kappa platform, engineered for a car like this, would find plenty of homes, trust me. 18 years later, this particular car still has a cult-like following. You'd definitely see one in my driveway!<p>

Santeno
04-06-2005, 07:50 AM
Guys, keep the discussion on topic please.

neburg964
04-06-2005, 11:33 AM
Hey Santeno,<p>Got Lutz's email address? Maybe he can give us one last present before he moves into his new position.<p>Maybe I should be talking to Rick Wagoner...

AM2
04-06-2005, 02:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mzoltarp</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GM isn't smart enough to stretch the Solstice/Sky chassis and do a BMW 2002 sort of car for Cadillac with the CTS's V6.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>... I don't know if they can stretch the Kappa platform long enough to make a 2-door sports sedan, but I know they made concepts based on slightly stretched Kappas, the Chevy Nomad and Saturn Curve concepts<br>

neburg964
04-07-2005, 12:28 PM
If they want to do it bad enough, they'll find a way!

KebabGud
04-07-2005, 12:57 PM
i think a smaler brand like Rover is the key ..<br>they need to sell more .. if they make a fun smal cheap car..<br>they will sell alot!

mzoltarp
04-18-2005, 05:13 AM
Automakers, if you build this we will come:<p>A new Stingray: A kappa with a small V8 (4 litre) and a retro 63-67 influenced, boat-tail body with pop up lights to slot under the Corvette at 35k. This would be a 1 price no options car. <p>A Cadillac RTS: a BMW 2002 sized sport sedan using Kappa suspension and architecture where possible with a V6.<p>A small affordable car that is quirky like the Type 1 VW Beetle, VW Thing or Citroen 2CV that is also cheap to keep. The Honda Airwave isn't quirky enough but it's in the zone conceptually. A stationwagon oops I mean sport crossover vehicle that had a Dodge Power Wagon nose with stand up round headlights would probably sell like mad.<p>A 40k Jaguar coupe and convertible with V8 to replace the slow-selling X type as their volume car line.<p>A V8 full sized rear drive luxo Hyundai<p>

KebabGud
04-19-2005, 11:16 AM
Toyota might bring back the AE86 ...<p>source: initialdthemovie.com <br>(official movie site.. toyota maed 3 new AE86 for the movie so thye might know a thing or two)

knicks125
04-19-2005, 03:25 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mzoltarp</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A V8 full sized rear drive luxo Hyundai</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Equus might be able to do the trick <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> although I think it's FWD...

mzoltarp
04-20-2005, 04:04 PM
Needs to be rear drive and they will do it if they truly have Lexus in their crosshairs with the upcoming luxury division<br>

knicks125
04-20-2005, 07:33 PM
i agree...i believe they will...I'd say at least one, possibly two