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CalinG7
03-03-2005, 03:57 PM
I've read up on on the long and complicated, convoluted history of Audi, from Horch to DKW to NSU to Auto Union. In all my reading I haven't been able to tell how the Audi brand was perceived since its' inception. I don't think it was always seen as a luxury brand like Mercedes or Jaguar, but was it more like a Ford and Opel, or was it something in the middle. <p>From what I could understand, it only started going upmarket around 1988 when they introduced a V8, and then definitely in 1994 with the aluminum A8. Can any of you, especially those residing in Europe, but anyone really clear this up. Thanks.

Tidal
03-03-2005, 04:16 PM
You're right in thinking Audi started out being a normal ( as in not premium ) car manufacturer. But their move upscale started early in the 80's, with the Quattro 4wd system, and the rallye wins. People then started identifying Audi has a brand in the forefront of technological development ( also because of their 5 cylinder engines ). Their next move was the Audi V8 ( has you mention ), didn't really work, a la VW Phaeton, but has soon as they got in to the A cars, around 93, 94, they were there. Btw, Ferdinand Piech, former VW group CEO, and the one responsible for trying to move VW upscale and ( to a certain degree ) failing, was one of the engineers responsible for pushing the Quattro idea, and from 1988, he was Audi CEO. I guess he thought he could do it twice...

Seller Automotive
03-03-2005, 11:13 PM
Perception of Audi..... "KICK ASS"

Hornbag
03-04-2005, 12:41 AM
I love Audi, thats my perception!

knicks125
03-04-2005, 09:53 AM
my perception of audi used to be really good, but it went down after they did the whole grille change, and now it's on every single of its cars <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

fockerRN
03-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Audi used to be plagued with quality and reliability issues, as was Volkswagen. Today, they still have a few problems, but they are masked by the cars stunning looks, driving performance and world-class interiors. 20 years ago my family owned an Audi 5000 Diesel. The car literally spent more time getting fixed than on the road. We never considered buying another Audi. 2 years ago though, we bought a TT Roadster and absolutely love it. The car has only had a couple of minor issues (the turbo stopped working), but the dealers now are light-years ahead of what they were 20 years ago in solving issues. Having driven the whole line of Audi cars (except the S4 and short-lived RS6), I can say with confidence that they are some of the best cars on the road today. The A8 can't be touched by the 7-series, S-Class or XJ. Nxet car, hopefully, will be the S4.

KebabGud
03-07-2005, 04:12 AM
i really can not see what is so spesial with audi?<br>boring cars (Passat in diffrent sizes..)<br>and one of the most boring interiors ever..<br>yet still people think there grate..<br>ant the buildquality is also.. crap..<br>

Santeno
03-07-2005, 11:03 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ant the buildquality is also.. crap..</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Really? how do you figure? I think you might be thinking about older Audi's. Current and recent models have had pretty decent quality. much like what Focker described in his post.

fubar
03-07-2005, 11:13 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the buildquality is also.. crap..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Audi Among Leaders for Quality and Reliability According to TV Report<p><br>Exceptional quality: every year the German technical inspection organisation TV publishes its Auto-Report. The 2005 edition shows that Audi is the best German premium automobile manufacturer in the category for cars of up to three years old. Audi has not one but two models in this top ten ranking of cars with the least defects. The top-selling Audi A4 achieved an impressive third place in this quality and reliability list. The Audi A2 follows in seventh place, making Audi the only German manufacturer to secure two places in the top ten in this category.<p>For its 2005 Auto-Report, the TV evaluated the results of more than seven and a half million vehicle inspections which it carried out in the previous year. All these vehicles were examined by the TVs engineering staff and their defects noted. Each main vehicle inspection called for by law covers more than 100 possible defects, of which the 38 most important ones are analysed by the TV in its quality report.<p>Fourtitude.com

Verdegrrl
03-08-2005, 01:03 PM
As you've no doubt encountered in your reading, Audi belonged to Mercedes for a while between WWII and 1970. Mercedes didn't really do anything with the brand, but was getting ready to launch a low cost alternative to a Mercedes, perhaps using the Audi brand name. When VW picked them up, they ran with what was on the drawing boards, but having recently acquired NSU (specifically the RO80), started incorporating some of those design features in the next generation Audis. That was the springboard for a reputation for technical innovation.<p>Prior to the war, Audi was a premium medium sized car, occupying a similar position as BMW does now. A notch below Mercedes and Horch, but above Wanderer, DKW, etc. I think Audi is very close or has passed BMW sales in Europe this year. <p>As for reliability, you have only to see this year's Consumer Reports results showing that Audi is the only German brand to be in the better than average catagory of all brands. No, it's not Lexus or Subaru reliable, but it's improving considerably from the days of the old 5000. I think that in North America we've seen a situation whereby the 60 Minutes fiasco killed resale, and people didn't care for the cars like they would the equivelent Mercedes or BMW. People could buy them for cheap, ran them until they broke, then found out repairs were comparable to the other German brands, and didn't or couldn't pay for them. That was a double whammy.<p>Some Audi firsts:<p>First all aluminum regular production car (A8)<br>First full sized luxury car to rate 5 stars for both the passenger and driver in a crash (A8)<br>First production V8 in Germany (as opposed to an inline 8)<br>First mass produced fwd cars (Front 1931/33 depending on source)<br>First mass produced awd passenger cars (Coupe GT, 80)<br>First hydraulic engine mounts<br>First to offer the 4 link front suspension that eliminates torque steer (A4)<br>First full sized passenger car to have a cd of .30 (100)<br>First full sized passenger car to have a cd of .29 (5000)<br>First 5 valves per cylinder heads in a car (A4/A6/A8/TT)<br>First to offer an all aluminum mass production small car (A2)<br>First to offer organically dyed leathers (A8)<br>Hydraulic braking in 1923<br>First to offer dual diagonal braking circuits<br>First to offer negative roll radius self stabilizing steering<br>First mass production successful 5 cylinder engine<br>First to offer a catalytic converter - later first to make them standard in all countries that offered unleaded gas<br>1989 saw Audi experiment with a gas powered rwd supplemented by electric rwd in an early hybrid<br>First to make 100% galvanized bodies<p>

RS
03-08-2005, 02:34 PM
Audi Improves Ranking in Consumer Reports Reliability Survey<p>Brand Problems per 100 vehicles<p>Subaru 8<br>Honda 9<br>Acura 10<br>Toyota 10<br>Hyundai 11<br>Infiniti 11<br>Lexus 11<br><B>Audi 12</B><br>Mini 13<br>Ford 15<br>Pontiac 15<br>Cadillac 16<br>Chevrolet 16<br>Chrysler 16<br>GMC 16<br>Jeep 16<br>Mazda 16<br>Saab 16<br>Dodge 17<br>Mercury 17<br>Volvo 17<br>Buick 18<br>Nissan 19<br>Saturn 19<br><B>BMW 21</B><br>Volkswagen 23<br><B>Mercedes-Benz 25</B><br>Lincoln 26<p>source: Consumer Reports<p><A HREF="http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_1106.shtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.fourtitude.com/news...shtml</A>

knicks125
03-09-2005, 06:46 AM
still disappointed by european results <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
03-09-2005, 08:41 AM
isn't it funny how some major automakers are near the bottom, but have some of their brands near the top (VW & Audi, BMW & Mini, Nissan and Infiniti)? BTW, where is Jaguar?

bolita
03-09-2005, 08:46 AM
And Land Rover??????????

knicks125
03-09-2005, 08:48 AM
I am not surprised, I guess you get what you pay for, although there are a lot of entry level brands in the top 10<p>jaugar is not the only one that's missing

knicks125
03-09-2005, 08:50 AM
maybe their problems are too many to show <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

SV
03-09-2005, 06:24 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really can not see what is so spesial with audi?<br>boring cars (Passat in diffrent sizes..)<br>and one of the most boring interiors ever..<br>yet still people think there grate..<br>ant the buildquality is also.. crap..<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>that has got to be the most ignorant thing i have ever read in my life. in case you haven't noticed, the A4 and A6 are no longer related to the passat since the passat moved to the golf platform. a boring interior design is your opinion, and audi interiors are widely considered to have the best build quality in the industry. audi is also the most reliable german car brand, according to consumer reports. how, in any way, is that poor build quality?

Santeno
03-10-2005, 08:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that has got to be the most ignorant thing i have ever read in my life.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Don't worry man, I think all the posts that followed that statement have corrected the error of Kebeb's ways.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe their problems are too many to show <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Actually, If I recall correctly, Jaguars (as a brand - I don't know about individual models) are now ranked pretty high in the quality and reliability scale.<br>

knicks125
03-10-2005, 08:41 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, If I recall correctly, Jaguars (as a brand - I don't know about individual models) are now ranked pretty high in the quality and reliability scale.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah I know, I was just kidding around. I have no idea why not every brands are shown on the list <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I wonder if Hummer still finished last as usual <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

SV
03-10-2005, 05:06 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Don't worry man, I think all the posts that followed that statement have corrected the error of Kebeb's ways.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>yeah, it just bugged me so much i had to say something, even though i was late to respond <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

KebabGud
03-10-2005, 06:15 PM
i jused to have a Audi .. 97model..A6..<br>nothing but problems..<br>after 2 weeks the left front dampener needed to be changed (the car was 2 years old at the time) <br>after 1 month the rear lights stoped working.. all of them (electrical problems..)<br> after 5 months somthing went wrong with the engine (1,8turbo) i dont know what.. but i know it was costly to fiks.. (im just glad i didnt have to pay.)<br>after a nother 2 months it just stoped working.. <br>i got my money back and got a Beemer..<br>problems there to.. but not so many and do.. big<br>(i sold that and got a carisma and later a beemer :P)<p>and lets talk handeling.. someome should talk to the guys at audi and get them to make a car that can go around a bend.. and im not just talking about mine.. but i have driven a 02 A4 on a track.. it handeld like.. lets just say.. you leave it in the toilet....<br>and im not just being rude to FWD.. i drove a Saab 93 Aero around the same track on the same day.. it was GRATE! i wanted that car! still do :P<p>so i know what i am talking about..<br>many peopel whare i work have had the same problems .. thats why only one out of 40+ people there have them.. (he has a RS4 soo.. )<br>

Verdegrrl
03-11-2005, 01:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i jused to have a Audi .. 97model..A6..<br>nothing but problems.... i got my money back and got a Beemer..<br>problems there to.. but not so many and do.. big<br>(i sold that and got a carisma and later a beemer :P)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>A '97 BMW 528 so we can compare back to back? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> A Carisma? Car magazine said: "Laughably misnamed minicab in waiting. Experience-free transport with woefully sloppy dynamics and cheap feeling cabin. Reasonable equipment and frugal GDI petrol engine makes it surprisingly cheap on CO2 company car tax. Otherwise avoid."<p>Well according to edmunds TCO (true cost to own), a 2001 530 will cost another $5 to 7K to operate over 5 years than an Audi A6 2.7t. This includes, fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc. The Saab or Volvo will cost you less than either.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and lets talk handeling.. someome should talk to the guys at audi and get them to make a car that can go around a bend.. and im not just talking about mine.. but i have driven a 02 A4 on a track.. it handeld like.. lets just say.. you leave it in the toilet....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Maybe some people should learn how to drive QTR. After all, that's why BMW got them banned from racing.... unfair advantage and all that <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> It's a technical car to drive, and not everyone has the inclination to learn or enjoys that.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and im not just being rude to FWD.. i drove a Saab 93 Aero around the same track on the same day.. it was GRATE! i wanted that car! still do :P</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Different strokes for different folks. :)<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so i know what i am talking about..many peopel whare i work have had the same problems .. thats why only one out of 40+ people there have them.. (he has a RS4 soo.. )</TD></TR></TABLE> <p>Well, lets just say I work in the industry, so I get to see things from all angles. At one point I sold them - and '97 A6 were one of our favourite used cars because they needed little reconditioning, and didn't result in unhappy customers (think old style E class Mercedes customers who wanted a nice solid car). No brand is perfect, but Audi is no worse than, and possibly better than some other European brands. There is good reason Audis are so popular in Europe. Here in California, they are everywhere - especially younger outdoorsy people in the tech and engineering industries. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but one former owner of one car does not make a whole picture.<p><br><i>Modified by Verdegrrl at 12:26 PM 3/11/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Verdegrrl at 12:28 PM 3/11/2005</i>

KebabGud
03-11-2005, 02:03 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Verdegrrl</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Maybe some people should learn how to drive QTR. After all, that's why BMW got them banned from racing.... unfair advantage and all that <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> It's a technical car to drive, and not everyone has the inclination to learn or enjoys that.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>it was not a Quattro .. and quattro is even more horrible on a track .. and its not even quattro..<p>oh and dont throw BS about the Carisma .. it might handle like a Audi and sound like a volvo.. but its a good car.. its nice to have a accident in to :P<br>minicab in waiting ? what does that really mean? its a f`ing sedan..<p>and its cheap.... that is a big point :P<br>(PS: check <A HREF="http://www.topgear.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.topgear.com</A> .. they did not hate it.. its a good A to B car..)<br>

Verdegrrl
03-16-2005, 06:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>it was not a Quattro .. and quattro is even more horrible on a track .. and its not even quattro..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>So you're saying you never learned how to use drop-throttle-oversteer on your Front Trak? Tsk, tsk <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> No wonder you didn't think it was any fun! Driving school my friend. Before you can run, you have to walk. If QTR was so terrible, it wouldn't have been used in stock form in racing, and got banned because of it :)<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and dont throw BS about the Carisma .. it might handle like a Audi and sound like a volvo.. but its a good car.. its nice to have a accident in to :P</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Early versions seem to be based on the Mitsubishi Mirage, and later ones on the Lancer. I'll let the facts speak for themselves. Hopefully you have the later version.<p><A HREF="http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97011.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ra...1.htm</A> <p><A HREF="http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0123.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ra...3.htm</A> <p>I refer you back to a link another poster on this forum has kindly supplied.<p><A HREF="http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2005/03/15/012250.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.theautochannel.com/....html</A><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">minicab in waiting ? what does that really mean? its a f`ing sedan..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't know where you are, nor does it really matter, but in some countries they have small taxis. These cars like most taxis, are tired but cheap cars that can be easily and repaired. The first owner keeps them a few years, and then when the paint fades a bit and the interior start buzzing too much, they sell it off. Of course resale is usually not so hot, and the desirability factor never high, so it goes into private or fleet cab owner's hands as a disposable car.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and its cheap.... that is a big point :P(PS: check <A HREF="http://www.topgear.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.topgear.com</A> .. they did not hate it.. its a good A to B car..)<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>If cheap is of primary importance to you, then the Audi most certainly was a mis-match. The Audi is cheaper on average to run than the comparable BMW or Mercedes, but it can't compete with an econobox, nor was it ever meant to. You're lucky to have found a car that suits you well :)<p>So what about this BM you have....... age, miles, usage? Lets get back to apples vs apples if you've got a valid comparison to make <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

bucket
03-17-2005, 09:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RS</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Audi Improves Ranking in Consumer Reports Reliability Survey<p>Brand Problems per 100 vehicles<p>Subaru 8<br>Honda 9<br>Acura 10<br>Toyota 10<br>Hyundai 11<br>Infiniti 11<br>Lexus 11<br><B>Audi 12</B><br>Mini 13<br>Ford 15<br>Pontiac 15<br>Cadillac 16<br>Chevrolet 16<br>Chrysler 16<br>GMC 16<br>Jeep 16<br>Mazda 16<br>Saab 16<br>Dodge 17<br>Mercury 17<br>Volvo 17<br>Buick 18<br>Nissan 19<br>Saturn 19<br><B>BMW 21</B><br>Volkswagen 23<br><B>Mercedes-Benz 25</B><br>Lincoln 26<p>source: Consumer Reports<p><A HREF="http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_1106.shtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.fourtitude.com/news...shtml</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>that list is based on <U>reported</U> problems, not all problems. therefore, something you need to take into account on that list is the type of people who buy the car. the type of person who buys a bmw or mercedes is likely to notice every rattle, squeak, and whine in the car. who wouldn't, after just shelling out upwards of $50k for a vehicle? in the less expensive vehicles (chevrolet, ford, subaru), things like "tire noise" and "unpleasant window squeak" don't often warrant a visit back to the dealership.<p>that also explains why subaru has so few reported problems. their decent build quality combined with the fact that most of their vehicles have incessant tin can rattle to begin with makes for a low number of reported problems.

knicks125
03-17-2005, 09:39 AM
i agree with your thoughtful explanations but overall, regardless of wether reported or not, the quality of asian cars (on the whole), in my opinion, have surpassed the europeans, while the domestic brands (us) are still laggin behind but have made drastic improvements over the recent years <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Verdegrrl
03-17-2005, 01:32 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i agree with your thoughtful explanations but overall, regardless of wether reported or not, the quality of asian cars (on the whole), in my opinion, have surpassed the europeans, while the domestic brands (us) are still laggin behind but have made drastic improvements over the recent years <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Quality (like handling, safety, value, etc), means different things to different people. If you mean stuff that actually malfunctions or breaks, then yes, German cars are behind the Japanese. However, if you define quality by the materials used, the feel in operation, the feedback while driving, how long the basic car feels new, the sense of occasion when you get into the car to go somewhere, might define quality to someone else.<p>When I worked at a dealer, we had plenty of reliable Japanese cars traded in. Nothing wrong with them. At 60 or 70K miles, they felt used and a bit tired. The used German cars usually had nice tight window switches that didn't wiggle in their sockets like the Japanese cars. The seats usually weren't flattened out like they might with a Japanese car. The handling on the German cars was still tighter than the Japanese cars. However, the German car would require more attention and maintainence than the Japanese counterpart. It's all a matter of expectations. <p>I spoke with a bodyshop guy about Japanese cars. He said that you could take the same model and year Camry and have one built in Japan, while another was built in the US. He would actually have to specify where the car was built, because the parts might not otherwise fit. He indicated the cars built in Japan are better made with better materials.

knicks125
03-18-2005, 06:35 AM
Yes I agree with you, and I did mean parts that break down; otherwise German cars, at least the ones I've owned are top notch, build quality and overall quality are excellent