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View Full Version : FWD, RWD or AWD/4WD?


MontrealMustang
03-02-2005, 07:18 AM
When cost is taken into consideration, which one do you prefer?<p>FWD: Excellent for all around driving. You can hop it up to about 300hp before getting monstrous torque steer so it can be pretty quick. Great in winter driving. Can go anywhere an AWD car can go, only slower.<p>RWD: The best when it comes to racing or any kind of sport driving. Not that good in winter but will do; this flaw can be corrected with a 49/51% weight distribution. It still won't be as good as FWD, but it'll get you pretty much anywhere. Great for towing.<p>AWD: Offers ultimate traction on any surface. Drives like a slotcar in the mud and snow. One problem. It ain't that great on asphalt. The added handling benefits aren't enough to cancel out the 300 or 400lbs weight increase the car now has. Also, AWD are notorious for ripping tires and clutches to shreds. Something's gotta slip when you accelerate hard and if it's not the tires, then it'll be the cluch or worse, differential. Great for Rallye Racing, not that great for anything else. If you live in really hilly snowy country and do a lot of driving you might want to get it. Otherwise it's best left to the Rallye racers and Skyline enthusiasts.<p>4WD: The Truck/Off Roading variant of AWD. This isn't made for sporty driving but to give the vehicle traction in 9 feet of mud. If you're thinking of pulling a boat out of a swamp, this is your thing. Overall, it's again not that useful. I've owned trucks and driven them in snowstorms and never really had a problem. As long as you're driving a stickshift and know how to modulate your clutch so that your rear wheels don't spin all over the place you should be able to conquer all but the steepest hill.<p>I hate to repeat myself but traction doesn't come from the drive wheels; it comes from the tires. Likewise, Off-roading capability comes from the vehicle's ride height. Just look at any VW Beetle. It doesn't look like a capable machine until you see it with a 3" lift kit and baja wheels. Then it rather unsurprisingly will go anywhere.<p>So what are your thoughts?

Reppu
03-02-2005, 07:43 AM
RWD....that's it

Santeno
03-02-2005, 08:39 AM
I preffer the enjoyment I get from rwd (I enjoy cars with spirited driving characteristics), Though my mind tells me that fwd is most appropriate for 90% of all driving I'll ever do. AWD sounds great and living in NY, which is very snowy, it's been my experience that once you go upstate, you will start runing into tons of subaru's and other4 awd vehicles. 4wd sounds great for the same reasons as awd, with the added benefit that you can turn it on or off at will. sadly I con't think of any maker that has thought to ad this kind of hardware to somethnig other than a truck.

knicks125
03-02-2005, 09:07 AM
Based on what Santeo said, it can be very rough to drive RWD in upstate NY (espeically in western NY, finger lakes, aridonack (sp), etc), and I've lived in NY pretty much all my lives, so I would have to go with either FWD or AWD/4WD, despite my love for RWD.<p>Although it is worth mention that even with AWD/4WD, it doesn't mean the car is the king of the road, as I've seen a few stupid acts of "my car/truck/suv has 4wd and i can do everything" - yeah let's just put at that.<p>Haven't we had a similar thread like this before?

KebabGud
03-02-2005, 10:57 AM
i live most of the year above the Arctic Circle (working)<br>and i justr dont understand people that thinks FWD is the best winter car (other then 4WD)<br>a RWD gives you a chanse to save yourself if you get a problem .. a FWD does not!<br>i just dont understand it...<p>og and 4WD sucks in the summer time...<br>for me .. its RWD all the way.. Summer and Winter<br>it seems many people where i live agree.. most cars in wintertime accidents are FWD..<br>moste cars in summertime accidents are RWD (people showing of on the winding roads :P)<br>

knicks125
03-02-2005, 12:12 PM
hey man we've been through this before, and it's a lost cause<p>i know you don't understand, but it's really personal perferences, and we can establish that some people like AWD, some people like FWD, and some people like RWD, there's no point arguing which one is the best, and that's not the point of this thread<p>your theory about RWD does best in winters and performs terrible in the summertime, I am not sure where you came up with that, perhaps where you are, but the majority of us will agree it's actually reversed, RWD does a lot better in dry pavement than when it's wet, iced, or snowed<p>you said most car accidents in winter are FWD, there's no way you can prove that. It really depends on how people drive, no matter what kind the car they have.<p>Actually, I just talked to the manager at the Chrysler dealer, he confirms that 300 is not doing so well in the past few months, vs. in the summer, fall or spring, and you don't see much RWD in winter than you do in the summer.<p>Your theory about RWD performs better in winter is mostly flawed, like I said, it really depends on how people drive. I have a perfect driving record, and I have always had FWD, no problems whatsoever <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

KebabGud
03-02-2005, 01:22 PM
im not saying that RWD is bad at summertime..<br>im saying people get into more accidents at summertime with RWD becouse people drive more "active" with RWD at summertime ( mostly kids)<p>normal people in europe (20years and upp) are used to driving RWD and there for knows how to handle a RWD in winter time (mostly in the north, Old BMWs and RWD volvos are realy popular cars for kids..)<p>I dont know anyone over the age og 20 that has not had a RWD car in the first 2 years after they got there driving liscens.. <br>the roads here are also really hard to drive active on .. so the overall skill of a person that has had ther liscens for more that a few years is higher than that of people groing upp in flat countrys (like denmark :P)<p>so lets look at it agian..<br>difficult roads, Longer/harder winters and many old RWD Cars..<br> <br>I did not say that RWD is bad in sommertime .. and good in wintertime<br>im saying people driving RWD are more cearfull in winter and more wild in sommer..<br>no one on earth can beat a scandinavian in the winter in ANY CAR..(maybe some one from japan.. same types of roads and stuff.. and more high power RWD cars)<p>

Hornbag
03-03-2005, 12:32 AM
Well.....<p>Ford Territory Ghia AWD<br>Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo RWD<br>Ford Focus convertable FWD (on sale hopefully soon)<p>I like all of these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

whipster
03-03-2005, 02:18 AM
AWD <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"><br>FWD eventually

-Peter-
03-04-2005, 01:43 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i live most of the year above the Arctic Circle (working)<br>and i justr dont understand people that thinks FWD is the best winter car (other then 4WD)<br><B>a RWD gives you a chanse to save yourself if you get a problem </B>.. a FWD does not!<br>i just dont understand it...<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>but you dont get problems if you drive FWD. believe me, I live in Finland. <p>AWD is of course best in winter, but you have to know how 4-wheel-drive cars handles. FWD is best in winter and in summer. <p>I drove my license with BMW and didnt like that at all. <p>But I agree with you. Scandinavian people have to know how to drive a car in tough conditions. thats why we are so good in Rally <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>

KebabGud
03-04-2005, 02:06 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>-Peter-</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>but you dont get problems if you drive FWD. believe me, I live in Finland. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><br>i had a FWD last winter (Carisma) it sucked.. i have never had so little controlle over a car in the wintertime.. this winter.. i drive a BMW, full controlle.. (with and without the ASC)<p>and i will never buy a FWD again.. the understear of a FWD and AWD in summertime is just so Horrible..<br>i just cant stand it anymore..<br>remember.. its better to oversteer then understeer..<br>(and i hate drifting! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> )

knicks125
03-04-2005, 02:07 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>-Peter-</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scandinavian people have to know how to drive a car in tough conditions. thats why we are so good in Rally <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>hey don't discount us here in the NA, especially near the Great Lakes area and Canada. We get usually over 100 inches of snow every season, plus ice once or twice at least a season, most of us here have endured perhaps one of the worst places as far as weather is concerned, espeically in winter seasons, but I agree scandinavian countries are just as bad as it is here <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-04-2005, 02:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>i had a FWD last winter (Carisma) it sucked.. i have never had so little controlle over a car in the wintertime.. this winter.. i drive a BMW, full controlle.. (with and without the ASC)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>i respect your opinions but since most cars nowadays are still FWD, and I'm not hearing a lot of complaints so it must just be you <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Hornbag
03-04-2005, 04:20 PM
I think it was just the Mitsubishi Carisma....blame it on the car peoples! LOL

-Peter-
03-05-2005, 11:56 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>hey don't discount us here in the NA, especially near the Great Lakes area and Canada. We get usually over 100 inches of snow every season, plus ice once or twice at least a season, most of us here have endured perhaps one of the worst places as far as weather is concerned, espeically in winter seasons, but I agree scandinavian countries are just as bad as it is here <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>heh, ice once or twice in the season.<p>we have ice almoust everyday in the season and our season is three months long <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-05-2005, 01:54 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>-Peter-</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>heh, ice once or twice in the season.<p>we have ice almoust everyday in the season and our season is three months long <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>well, it's a tricky thing, and when the temp. is always below 32 F (0 C), there is no chance for ice, right? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>and when temp is below 0 F, which is often the case, it is brutal <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emdgust.gif" BORDER="0">

Blackraven
03-06-2005, 12:31 AM
Any drivetrain would do for me except 4WD. I'd rather go for AWD if that's the case.<p><br>As for RWD, it acts better nowadays (thanks to more stability and traction technology). <p><br>During the last 7 years when I was still 8 years old, I always thought that RWD easily loses traction and slips all the time (I used to refer RWD as "slippery"). Examples of those were the old BMWs, old model Benz vehicles. Nowadays, the driver aids (eg. DSC, ABC, ABS, etc. prevent that from happening) prevent RWD cars from slipping and as a result of this, the chances of RWD cars slipping-off are less than 25% IMO.<p>Still, I would prefer AWD all the way. Power to all 4 wheels can be distributed depending on the driver and road conditions. Power can then go to all 4 wheels and on certain cases, to the front wheels, to the rear wheels or EVEN ON THREE WHEELS!!!<p>Heck, I don't even know if they can distribute all power to just ONE WHEEL (think about it).<p>Still, obtaining optimal traction and stability is more than just the car's drivetrain and what do I mean by this.<p><br>Well, if you look at the new Nissan Fuga (or Infiniti M in NA and some other territories), the rear wheels now have the ability to turn as well. The technology called "rear-active steering" is an electrically-controlled mechanism which enables the rear wheels to turn. This allows for better handling and stability on extreme turning applications (especially during high-speed turning and very sharp turns). <p><br>Currently, this feature is available on the 350 GT Sports Package (M35 Sport for the Infiniti M) but I hope that they'll include this in the 4WD/AWD variants because the technology is really nice and supportive to the driver.<p>

Superfresa
03-06-2005, 08:30 PM
AWD and Permanent 4X4 for me

Santeno
03-07-2005, 08:31 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Superfresa</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AWD and Permanent 4X4 for me</TD></TR></TABLE><br>aren't those one and the same?

fockerRN
03-07-2005, 11:29 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MontrealMustang</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, AWD are notorious for ripping tires and clutches to shreds. Something's gotta slip when you accelerate hard and if it's not the tires, then it'll be the cluch or worse, differential. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is that true about the clutch and tires? I drive a 2004 Honda CR-V with a 5-speed, so your comment pertains exactly to my vehicle. I don't drive it too hard, however, I often get rear-wheel engagement on slippery roads when the front wheels slip a bit. Your comment makes perfect sense, and my question is, which tires are abused more (front or rear) and what exactly does a slipping clutch feel like? Sometimes as the rear wheels engage in the revs climb high when as I'm in the process of releasing the clutch. Also, when you said that AWD comprimises handling on drive asphalt- many AWD drive vehicles are FWD until the front wheels lose traction. So, many of them behave like FWD and give you the AWD traction when you need it. Our other car, the Audi TT, is always driving 4 wheels, but I have really never noticed any downfall in its handling (maybe it would understeer on a track, but I've never taken it to one). All in all, I think AWD is terrific in bad weather and worth the extra cost.

Santeno
03-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Focker, what he is describing is cars like audis and subarus in which all 4 wheel spin all the time. cars like the crv work differently (as described in your post), delivering power to slipping wheels only when slip is detected. There is much less stress on drive train componenmts on a vehicle like yours than on a true AWD equiped vehicle.

fockerRN
03-07-2005, 05:29 PM
True. I guess I should take it a bit easier on the TT instead of launching the car at high revs. Thanks!

Superfresa
03-07-2005, 05:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>aren't those one and the same? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>No. AWD is permanent 4 wheel traction without low range (audi, Subaru, Porsche). Permanent 4X4 is AWD + low range.

Santeno
03-08-2005, 08:28 AM
I guess my confussion is in that you are calling 4x4 "permanent 4x4". I have never seen a "permanent 4x4" system. everey single 4x4 system I have ever seen can be disengaged, allowing the vehicle to operate in rwd mode until the 4x4 is needed. once you engage 4x4, you have the option of engaging low range or regular driving. The system is not permanent, but rather it can be turned on or off at will. Since AWD systems are in fact permanent (you can't turn them off), that is why I asked if they were the same thing.<p>Is there such a thing as permanent 4x4? If so can you tell me who uses it and what the benefits of such a system are over other 4wd arrangements. Thanks.

Naga Royal Guard
03-08-2005, 08:48 AM
i think the current Land Cruiser has a system like that, but im really not sure

Superfresa
03-08-2005, 03:07 PM
Okay, there are several types of 4X4: Here they are, and their pros and cons:<p><B>Manually engaging:</B><p>This is the type that you just switch the 4X4 on and off manually via a lever or simply a button. It can either be with the manually engaging front hubs (you have to get down and engage them), or with electronic autohubs.<p>It's the simplest type. Cars that use this system are for example: Most old 4X4s, Suzuki Sierra, Toyota Land Cruiser 75, Jeep Wrangler...<p><U>Pros:</U>- Simple<br>- Cheap<br>- Reliable<br>- You know when 4X4 is on or when not.<p><U>Cons:</U><br>- No full traction all the time, so less permanent grip (eg, you wouldn't engage it on a dirt road, although it could be better to have full traction in such conditions)<br>- Driver needs to decide when he needs it or not.<br>- Due to simplicity, wear of mechanical parts increases in 4X4 mode.<p><B>Electronic 4X4:</B><br>This is the type where the car automatically engages the 4X4 whenever it needs it. The driver therefore doesn't have to decide when to use it.<p>Electronic 4X4 can mainly be found in cars like Nissan Pathfinder, I Think, and Ford Explorer<p><U>Pros:</U>- easy to use (you just drive)<br>- takes out the inconveniance of deciding when to use 4X4.<p><U>Cons:</U>- System can be slow.<br>- On certain terrains, you need full traction BEFORE you try to go over an obstacle, and not in the second your wheels start spinning, because you lose impulse.<br>- you never know when it's going to start working<br>- Wear and tear in 4X4 mode<p><B>AWD:</B><p>This is the type of traction that is engaged all the time, be it in traffic jam, in highway cruising, in windy roads or out in the rough. This is the Type of traction that Porsche (carrera 4), Audi (quattro system), Subaru, etc use. It has no low range.<p><U>Pros:</U>- Full time traction, all the time<br>- no need to decide when to engage 4X4<br>- you always know what the car is doing<br>- More traction even on high speed curves<p><U>Cons:</U><br>- More expensive than manually engaging, and slightly more expensive that electronic 4X4<br>- No low range for extreme conditions<p><B>Permanent 4X4:</B><br>This is the same type of 4X4 as All Wheel Drive (AWD), but with low range. Cars that have this system are: Land Rovers (all except Freelander that has AWD), Hummer H1, Toyota Land Cruiser 100, Porsche Cayenne, etc.<p><U>Pros:</U><br>Same as AWD + the benefit of low range<p><U>Cons:</U><p>Same as AWD<p><br>Hope it's a bit clearer now... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/2cool.gif" BORDER="0">

Krypton
03-08-2005, 03:16 PM
awd/4wd, for me. Today pretty much sealed it. Snowed and getting home was horrible, saw a new slk stuck in the snow getting towed out. But for those summers rwd

knicks125
03-09-2005, 06:49 AM
i think we can all agree, with a few exceptions (of the posts in this thread) that awd/4wd drive is the best. FWD is best during winter seasons under most conditions, and RWD is best during summer seasons and dry pavement under most conditions <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Mindless T
03-09-2005, 10:18 AM
For a track - RWD no question, followed by FWD. AWD? Hmm useless unless it's for rallying or snow.

Superfresa
03-10-2005, 02:26 PM
Now that If ofered, I'll take 6X6 (Land Rover Perentie)...

olegk21
05-19-2005, 03:49 PM
In your next vehicle of purchase, which would you buy?<p>Even though awd cars have worse fuel economy and less hp at the wheels, I think it is a great safety system, and I would definately want one in my next vehicle of purchase.

Superfresa
05-19-2005, 05:42 PM
I'll go for AWD, I absolutely love that feature. Though a RWD car is quite more fun tho <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>In fact I'll have what ever, I'm pissed off with idiots running over me when I'm in my bycicle...

Cozz
05-19-2005, 07:52 PM
I like the RWD.<p>I don't like FWD because you can feel the tourqe steer and I don't see the point owning an AWD in NJ. It's not like AWD is safer for regular street driving.

Nick
05-19-2005, 09:46 PM
RWD...I dont really like the feel of a FWD car...infact, I hate it...I drove an old first gen scooby RS 2.5 once but it was for like a minute or so just to try it out...I am sure they are ok, but rwd is more up my alley...allows for better weight distribution in most cases too...

zwei Biere bitte
05-19-2005, 10:30 PM
RWD... I don't see any reason for owning an AWD vehicle in California, and I bet a RWD car with ESP is just a "safe" in corning and what not as a AWD car. FWD is well... too boring ;P (Even though I will be getting a front driver <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> )

mzoltarp
05-20-2005, 05:51 AM
AWD in normal driving provides no tangible safety increase. In theory under extreme maneuvers, AWD is an amazing asset. In reality, driver control is the best safety feature. The one thing that AWD does in normal, day-to-day driving is to reduce mileage significantly. For sedans and wagons, give me front wheel drive, for sportscars give me rear wheel drive.

Superfresa
05-20-2005, 09:40 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RWD... I don't see any reason for owning an AWD vehicle in California, and I bet a RWD car with ESP is just a "safe" in corning and what not as a AWD car. FWD is well... too boring ;P (Even though I will be getting a front driver <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> )</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What car are you getting? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I chose AWD because In my country it's a good thing to have. If I lived in the USA maybe a RWD would be OK (Though I'm always the type that is out somewhere were roads aren't too good anyway <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> LOL

zwei Biere bitte
05-20-2005, 03:21 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Superfresa</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What car are you getting? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>1998 Volvo V70... the ultimate road trip car <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
05-20-2005, 06:26 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RWD... I don't see any reason for owning an AWD vehicle in California, and I bet a RWD car with ESP is just a "safe" in corning and what not as a AWD car. FWD is well... too boring ;P (Even though I will be getting a front driver <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> )</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yea, thats the other thing...I live in SoCal, off of some of the most extreme mountain roads you will ever come across...infact I live on one of them (decker canyon) which runs through Mulholland, and Decker is thought to be one of the most demanding roads one can ride on...it's a blast to drive...but I would only do it in a RWD car...my friend does it in FWD in his honda accord...thinks he is an f1 driver...but I have done it in my dad's bimmer, and even in my truck and still beaten him every time (of course he isn't that good of a driver, just really cocky) anyways, I still stand on RWD only for me...

Superfresa
05-20-2005, 08:24 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>1998 Volvo V70... the ultimate road trip car <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Awesome! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Just for you? That's really cool! I envy you <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">