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View Full Version : 2006 Lexus IS v. 2006 BMW 3 er


LEXUS FAN!
03-01-2005, 08:37 AM
what do you think...i want to know<p>IS for me

knicks125
03-01-2005, 08:52 AM
IS - both are fairly similar, cost is the key <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
03-01-2005, 09:19 AM
IMO, as the 3 continues to grow in size, plushness and overall luxury, even though it's still lots of fun to drive, the lexus just seems to be picking up the mantle of what the 3 used to be... A sports sedan with the emphasis on sport.

Krypton
03-01-2005, 09:39 AM
IS, IMO looks bettr than the 3-er and looks more sporty

SV
03-01-2005, 03:35 PM
well, both are great, but the lexus should have better reliability than the 3-series (M-B and BMWhaven't had very impressive reliability ratings lately), and dynamics and build quality should be close to the BMW.

Flagship
03-01-2005, 04:38 PM
Both are great cars BMW will most likely handle a little better but ill chose the IS better quality reliability and more technology, and most likely a better price tag.<p>Its nice to see that no one isnt bashing Lexus I hope it will stay this way, any way back on topic<br>

anonms
03-01-2005, 04:55 PM
I choose the IS because I prefer its appearance and that fact that it stull uses old-school interface means as opposed to metallic knobs.

Cozz
03-01-2005, 08:30 PM
I choose the Lexus IS. Looks solid from the inside. The 3er looks old compared to this.

zwei Biere bitte
03-01-2005, 08:35 PM
One letter: ///M! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Anyway, I prefer the 3 Series for a number of reasons. First off, I think it looks better than the Lexus. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that I don't like the Lexus' looks, I guess they just don't appeal to me. Also I don't think anyone can judge what reliability will be like for either car. The current IS interior was not quite up to regual Lexus standards IMO. I've read a review of the E90 from someone who drove it at a BMW in the UK. He actually wrote that the interior materials were much better than in the current 5, 6, and 7er, and that he thought it was the best new BMW yet. Also, it seems as though the Lexus is coming with a 2.5 litre petrol to the States (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong), when the E90 will come only with the new 3 litre engine, making the only car avalible here the 330i. And anoms, I hope you know that you can get the E90 without iDrive. I also might mention the 3er will come as a wagon version again, and I seriously doubt Lexus will continue the IS hatch. <p>

anonms
03-01-2005, 09:02 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One letter: ///M! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>And anoms, I hope you know that you can get the E90 without iDrive.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Of course I do.<br>However, if I were to get a 3-series or an IS, I'd want a navigation system. And I can't get that without iDrive on a BMW.

Hornbag
03-02-2005, 04:01 AM
My head says Lexus, me heart says BMW<p>Right now my heart is broken in many places (stupid g/f), so i will go with the Lexus...

Top Secret
03-02-2005, 04:12 AM
I personally thought this was going to be a one-sided affair - but obviously not. The 3 Series is most definately superior in so many categories, bar price and maybe quality. I think I'm the only one who is not really liking the IS - sorry, but it doesn't tickle my senses. <p>But really, I would take the B7 A4 either both of these.

Cozz
03-02-2005, 05:38 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><b>My head says Lexus, me heart says BMW</b><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's where BMW wins. It's a trusted name.

Reppu
03-02-2005, 07:40 AM
I'd take the BMW only if i had a laaaarge amount of money to spend in extras. Otherwise, probably Lexus, even if it lacks of that 'something' that a BMW has.

Hornbag
03-03-2005, 12:28 AM
After seeing some pictures of the new 3 series, i change my vote. The 3 is the car...

Tidal
03-03-2005, 10:52 AM
3-series. Looks better imo, wider engine choice, better resale value.

LEXUS FAN!
03-04-2005, 01:02 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>DVieira</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3-series. Looks better imo, wider engine choice, better resale value. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>It will have similar engine choices as the IS now.

Reppu
03-04-2005, 02:34 AM
And about resale value.....if i were to buy a second hand car, i'd take a Lexus above anything else.

knicks125
03-04-2005, 09:56 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And about resale value.....if i were to buy a second hand car, i'd take a Lexus above anything else.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Agreed...resale value is overrated <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

AM2
03-04-2005, 10:33 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One letter: ///M! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Anyway, I prefer the 3 Series for a number of reasons. First off, I think it looks better than the Lexus. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that I don't like the Lexus' looks, I guess they just don't appeal to me. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Well I guess the new IS styling is sort of like a RWD Mazda 3... and a Mazda 3 ain't a premium compact sports sedan.

Tidal
03-04-2005, 10:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>It will have similar engine choices as the IS now.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not in europe. Here there will be both more gasoline and diesel variants.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And about resale value.....if i were to buy a second hand car, i'd take a Lexus above anything else.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>But if you where to sell, the 3-series would depreciate less.

Santeno
03-04-2005, 11:01 AM
I'm not so sure in model per model basis, but If I recall correctly, lexuses depreciate more slowly, as a whole, than BMW's. That said, I think Toyota (as a brand - I don't know about specific models) has the highest value retention rate of any manufacturer right now.

anonms
03-04-2005, 09:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not so sure in model per model basis, but If I recall correctly, lexuses depreciate more slowly, as a whole, than BMW's. That said, I think Toyota (as a brand - I don't know about specific models) has the highest value retention rate of any manufacturer right now.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>No, it's Honda, last time I checked.

jro4566
03-04-2005, 09:43 PM
I'll wholeheartedly take the IS. BMW has been slouching in the quality and reliability department lately, whereas Lexus continues to soar like an eagle. Plus, Lexus navigation systems are some of the easiest I've ever tried, even more so compared to the debacle BMW likes to call iDrive.

krampits
03-07-2005, 12:00 PM
For me it's IS too. Better quality and reliability, fresh design, cheaper, sport oriented, very good safety features, better interior etc.

LEXUS FAN!
03-12-2005, 07:21 PM
if you're not sure which one you like better, look at these comparison pictures<p><A HREF="http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154159" TARGET="_blank">http://www.clublexus.com/forum...54159</A>

Hornbag
03-13-2005, 03:58 AM
Geez, without iDrive the 3 series dash looks, um CRAP!<p>But those pictures of the 3 series are unfair. They are in dark colours, im sure a sliver would look much nicer IMO.

Dodger
03-13-2005, 08:36 AM
I would be happy with either though I would prefer the IS. Where the BMW looks like it is just sitting there, the IS exudes the fact that it wants to be driven. The IS has a certain stance about it that makes it look awesome

Cozz
03-13-2005, 04:31 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>krampits</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For me it's IS too. Better quality and reliability, fresh design, cheaper, sport oriented, very good safety features, better interior etc.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is the IS cheaper? I thought the 3 series is cheaper, but not by much.

zwei Biere bitte
03-13-2005, 05:00 PM
Review of the new 3 Series from someone who owns a 1 Series. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nat</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Went to Rockingham yesterday to see the E90 & must say I was really impressed. Had a great day out & the car was much better than I anticipated.....some thoughts...<p>Looks: This IMHO is the weakest aspect of the car, bit bland at the front & rear but not ugly/offensive. I think the sport model will rectify alot of this<p>Interior: Really nice, BMW back to good quality interiors. Fit & finish was great & the quality of materials much better than the 5 or 6 series. The plastic of the dash was INHO better than the E46 too...This is the best of the 'bangled' cars in this department. Lots of nice touches & works really well. The large idrive screen/sat nav was great & had some nice combinations-map 1 side & journey trip or obc or other map options on the other & still a full scale map!! Liked it.<p>Engines: I only drove the 3.0i & 2.5i & the latter only briefly. Was very impressed with the new 3.0i though-smoth reving, better low down talk but when you open it up a great noise & fast. Drove this on the track (did 3 laps) & very impressed.<p>Ride/handling: Didn't drive it on the roads but was good on the track, smooth & comfortable & the ride over the kerbs wasn't harsh at all. Felt well planted & secure. Did understeer if entered corners too quickly but lots of grip & little body roll. Need to drive on the proper roads but initial impressions very positive.<p>Overall: IMHO this is the best of the recent BMWs. It answers most of the faults of recent cars whilst continuing BMs traditional strong points. It will do well & will now probably be my next car!!<p>I did ask about model developments...they wouldn't say when the coupe/cab or M cars were due. However, said the sport is at present due to go into build in Sept '05 but this may slip in tradiutional BMW style! I asked about diesels-it will have a new 3.0d - more alloy than the current model & will have b/w 218 & 231bhp but this hasn't been signed off yet. Said this should be released in Sept '05 as well. He wasn't sure about a 335d though as the new 3.0d is quite different to the old one & would likely need more work before ready to launch?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>And another...<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Snow</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I test drove the 320i today. Not the strongest engine, but enough for me to feel the adrenaline pumping through some fast countryside corners Smile<p>I was suprised by the size and especially the width of this new 3 series. It's alot wider then the previous 3. The 1 series falls a bit short on this point, feeling rather narrow and cramped. Albeit, our 1er is in a different league.<p>I drove a rather basic model with airco, radio business, cruise control, sports steering wheel and alloys as most significant options. Still it felt very luxurious and comfy. Interior build quality is excellent and my impression is that it's better then the 1 series. The lack of power and quality of the default sound system was a disappointment though. An upgrade is in place here.<p>As with all Bangle design's the car looks much better in reality then on the photos I've seen.<p>If I could afford it, I think I would prefer the new 320d above a higher specced 120d. It could well become my next car within a year or 4. In the meanwhile I'm looking forward to a more affordable 118d arriving somewhere this summer Cool</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cozz
03-13-2005, 08:47 PM
I'll say that the 3er will beat the IS in all it's markets where both are for sale.<p>

krampits
03-14-2005, 02:25 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Is the IS cheaper? I thought the 3 series is cheaper, but not by much.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I really don't know what are the prices in different countries. But here, the IS is cheaper when we are talking that both cars have the same equipment level. The standard equiped 3er is cheaper but it has a lot less equipment than the standard equiped IS.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll say that the 3er will beat the IS in all it's markets where both are for sale.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I suppose it will. The important think is though, that a good market share for the IS will make every sport sedans manufacturer to develop better cars. We 've seen that happen with other cars, like the fourth generation golf and peughot 307 or reanault megane.

KebabGud
03-14-2005, 02:49 AM
Cozz: to quote the greate and powerfull Morrissey "America is not the world"... thats all<p>here to the IS is cheeper..<br>("MK1" IS200 vs E90 320i)<br>and to give you a hint to the insanity of norwegian car prices... the BMW 325i (E90) is priced at $82.854.. whould you pay 83.000 dollars for a 325i ? <br>dont know about the price of the new IS250 .. but i guess mutch the same

Cozz
03-14-2005, 09:25 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KebabGud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cozz: to quote the greate and powerfull Morrissey "America is not the world"... thats all<p>here to the IS is cheeper..<br>("MK1" IS200 vs E90 320i)<br>and to give you a hint to the insanity of norwegian car prices... the BMW 325i (E90) is priced at $82.854.. whould you pay 83.000 dollars for a 325i ? <br>dont know about the price of the new IS250 .. but i guess mutch the same</TD></TR></TABLE><p>To bad Morrissey was wrong. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cool.gif" BORDER="0">

olegk21
03-15-2005, 03:55 PM
If the 3er costs more I'd go for the lexus, if not...<p>well, definately the IS has had the greatest change from the previous version, much better interior and supposedly almost a 100hp gain. Lexus is known for top luxury, quality, and reliability, but that used to come with a high price tag. Maybe not as high as the 3er, as the last generation 330i neared 50K with all the options. Supposedly the new gen is supposed to be less expensive but I don't know its price yet or that of the lexus.<p>The two are great brands but adding all the bells and whistles usually put the price tag to astronomical highs. Ex. the 2005(old) 330i at edmunds.com pricing (with nice options... "$45,145." That's a lot considring that's about the same range as a 300srt8. The old IS cost in the low 30's but seeing how the avalon has neared 40K. There should be no reason that the new IS could not hit that mark and even pass it. Same goes for the current CTS as in my opinion its price is a little steep for what you get.

Nick
03-16-2005, 12:46 PM
I saw the IS the other day driving around...it looked pretty good actually, but I don't think it will be able to beat the 3er...I mean, it's a great car and everything, but the 3er is the ultimate driving machine <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

sc43018
03-16-2005, 05:00 PM
Ive driven plenty of german and japanese cars, and, as much as i love acura, lexus, toyota, etc., the japanese just cant build a car as solid and tight as a the germans can. and by 'tight', i dont mean awesome, as it seems to be used in the common vernacular, i mean that way the car holds itself, the steering, the quality of the interior. BMW 3er, as i can only imagine, is what BMW is all about. No matter what the price, no matter what the options, the 3er just out guns any IS ive ever driven. Lexus could have changed, i doubt it, but the germans just go about their cars differently<p>and with lexus's goal for "perfection", they lack the thrill of driving. If BMW did it right, the 3er will be "The Ultimate Driving Vehicle", which in itself makes it better than the IS, ES, GS, or LS.

KebabGud
03-16-2005, 05:39 PM
"The Ultimate Driving Vehicle" is a joke.. i have a E46.. with Sport suspension.. its softer then my old Carisma.. and that car had big suspension problems...

LEXUS FAN!
03-16-2005, 06:36 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I saw the IS the other day driving around...it looked pretty good actually, but I don't think it will be able to beat the 3er...I mean, it's a great car and everything, but the 3er is the ultimate driving machine <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>really? you saw the 2006 IS in westlake village?<p>where is that exactly?

Nick
03-16-2005, 10:13 PM
it's in california...infact I saw it right next to JD Power and associates (which is also in westlake village) But Westlake is located in Ventura County which is north of L.A. a bit...it is part of Thousand Oaks which is located right next to Simi Valley to give you a general idea of where it is...but yea, i didn't think they were out yet...

IcedG35
03-17-2005, 05:37 PM
I'd still vote G35, especially if we're talking coupes since the IS is now supposed to come in coupe form. Neither have 300 hp like my G <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/moon_1_D.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
03-17-2005, 07:31 PM
well, if you wanna get down to that, then f*ck the G...I'll take an M3 please... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

krampits
03-18-2005, 04:35 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sc43018</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive driven plenty of german and japanese cars, and, as much as i love acura, lexus, toyota, etc., the japanese just cant build a car as solid and tight as a the germans can. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What a HUGE myth !!! Have you ever drived a good italian, french or even english car ? I can say that some of them are a lot more tight than german cars. Have you ever drived an alpha, (gtv or 156 or 147), a peughot (306 s16 or 106 rally), or a small lotus ellise, (I know that lotus is not a sport sedan, but it's a lot cheaper than M3 or even than a 320) ? I can tell you that. I've drived a lot of cars. Most of the times, the tighter of them were cars that I didn't even expected to be close to that meaning. As for the japanese, I'd expect anything from them. They make cars like the impreza or the evo or the skyline gtr or the tsx or even celica, where you can find one the best handling experience in the world... So, be patient and wait until you can drive the actuall think. Expect the unexpected. And most of all, don't rely on thinks that you read on magazines, because they drive the cars in a completely different way than we do... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Hornbag
03-18-2005, 05:58 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sc43018</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the quality of the interior.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>hahahahahahaha<br>A BMW with a decent quality interior, LOL, u crack me up!

Top Secret
03-18-2005, 06:11 AM
Damn. That was hilarious.<p>What's so funny about having a good-quality interior? Most BMW's had them pre-Bangle. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0">

Hornbag
03-18-2005, 06:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>What's so funny about having a good-quality interior? Most BMW's had them <B>pre-Bangle</B>. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>And thats the thing, <B>pre-bangle</B>. I sat in a BMW today when i went to Toowoomba, and i looked at the quality in this particular X3(OMG), so i sat in a 5 series, then i just left. It was too much...it was just shocking! Pannel gaps, the quality of plastics, all the journalists have got it right, this is awful! So bad, that i change my choice back to the Lexus. I just cant stress how bad it was for a car worth sooooooooooooooooo much!

Top Secret
03-18-2005, 06:24 AM
Actually, they are not that bad, the feel and look of the plastics are still top-notch; just not on par to the pre-Bangle era. Bit of cost-cutting here and there - shame.

Hornbag
03-18-2005, 07:33 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, they are not that bad, the feel and look of the plastics are still top-notch; just not on par to the pre-Bangle era. Bit of cost-cutting here and there - shame. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>But the 5 series i sat in and played around with (i LOVE iDrive!) cost like over $100000, yet when i went to go and have a look at the Holden Astra, it was very well built, and put this car to shame! Although mabey they were one offs?

IcedG35
03-18-2005, 03:14 PM
Say that when the actual M3 competition, the GTR comes back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0">

LEXUS FAN!
03-18-2005, 05:24 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's in california...infact I saw it right next to JD Power and associates (which is also in westlake village) But Westlake is located in Ventura County which is north of L.A. a bit...it is part of Thousand Oaks which is located right next to Simi Valley to give you a general idea of where it is...but yea, i didn't think they were out yet...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's interesting. I live in Torrance and my brother lives in Woodland Hills. That's awesome that it is in Los Angeles driving around. I bet if I stayed at the Lexus Headquarters down the street for a week, it is bound to show up.

Naga Royal Guard
03-18-2005, 09:55 PM
why dont you try that<p><br>infact: i will myself, no food or water or nothin, not even any clothes just a silk toga and ill go on hunger strike gandhi style, not until the 2007 LS 970 V12 comes rolling w/o any camo

Hornbag
03-18-2005, 10:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why dont you try that<p><br>infact: i will myself, no food or water or nothin, not even any clothes just a silk toga and ill go on hunger strike gandhi style, not until the 2007 LS 970 V12 comes rolling w/o any camo</TD></TR></TABLE><p>But Ghandhi ended up being assasionated by his own pple!

scorpio14
03-19-2005, 12:18 AM
WOW thats crazy... its a 50/50 thing goin on here... come on pplz keep voting...

LEXUS FAN!
03-25-2005, 07:28 PM
yea...the 50/50 thing is crazy<p>now that some have heard more details about the IS...has anyone changed their mind one way or another?

bm88
03-26-2005, 02:01 PM
Well I once again made the voting go to 50/50 and voted 3er.<p>After seeing both cars in Geneva, I just generally found that 3er more appealing. And besides that, I hate Lexus.

summersun54
03-29-2005, 04:33 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>krampits</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For me it's IS too. Better quality and reliability, fresh design, cheaper, sport oriented, very good safety features, better interior etc.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>fair enough.but what safety equipment was the last generation 3 series missing that the lexus had? was the 3 series not sports orientated? it invented the sports saloon class..i have never known the 3 series to be of poor quality not in europe? the last genration is was a carbon copy of thye 1992-99 3 series? (no harm in that)<br>So what are your issues with the BMW

krampits
03-29-2005, 04:51 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>summersun54</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>fair enough.but what safety equipment was the last generation 3 series missing that the lexus had? </TD></TR></TABLE><br>It's very simple. First, I didn't say that the previous IS had safety equipment that the previous 3er didn't have. Appart from that, have you seen the Euro NCAP crash test results of the previous BMW 3 series? The 2000 model scored 4 out of 5 stars, while the 1997 model scored 2 out of 5 stars !!!! <br>The 2003 Avensis scored 5 out of 5 stars, while the 1998 Avensis scored 3 out of 5 stars. We are talking for a car which costs half the money of the BMW !!! <br>Unfortunately, the previous IS200 have not been tested. But the new Lexus GS300 scored 5 out of 5 stars, with the best result in the category. Besides, there are some safety features introduced in the new IS and GS, that no other manufacturer has, such as knee airbags and pre collision radar. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>summersun54</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>was the 3 series not sports orientated? it invented the sports saloon class.. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I didn't also said that BMW is not sport oriented. I 've just mentioned that the IS is also sport oriented.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>summersun54</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>i have never known the 3 series to be of poor quality not in europe? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>It seems that you haven't read any reliability reports concerning the BMW and Lexus. Lexus always scored one of the top 3 position in every category, while BMW is happy when scores 10th !!!<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>summersun54</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>the last genration is was a carbon copy of thye 1992-99 3 series? (no harm in that)<br>So what are your issues with the BMW </TD></TR></TABLE><p>According to my opinion, let me say that again, MY OPINION, BMW's design is the same design for about 10 years. Only minor changes. I didn't say that the previous IS wasn't reminiscent of BMW. The new IS though is completely different with it's own personality that nothing reminds BMW.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>summersun54</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>was the 3 series not sports orientated? it invented the sports saloon class.. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, it did. As Toyota invented SUVs. That means nothing. If a manufacturer hangs on what previously invented, then someone else gets the lead. <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0">

Comrade
03-29-2005, 05:06 PM
wow, the voting is 20 for the Lexus and 20 for the BMW. Has there ever been a CSS voting where numbers were this close?<p>Anyway I think the BMW is a better car. Like Ascariss said, the IS is one of the most controversial* designs. I think its also very DISSONANT, lines are going in every direction and the b-pillar to door part may be unique but unnecessary cuz it most likely blocks vision for the rear passenger.

zwei Biere bitte
03-29-2005, 06:14 PM
<B>Krampits</b>, how do you know the new IS is cheaper? How do you know it's better quality and has better reliability than the new 3 Series? You don't so please don't comment on these issues just yet. In fact, I wish some other people quit posting that the new IS has better quality than the new 3er, no one really knows yet.

krampits
03-29-2005, 11:56 PM
It is Lexus's policy to be cheaper than BMW. In fact, Lexus announced that the new IS250 will cost something like the old IS200. We all know the prices of the new BMW and we know that it is pricier than the old IS200, (At least in my country). As for the quality and reliability, this is something that you have to read about in my and other's previous postings. Besides, how do you know that BMW is going to have better handling than the IS ??? You don't really but you consider it allready as a fact !!!<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by krampits at 10:11 AM 3/30/2005</i>

RikfromBelgium
03-30-2005, 01:21 AM
Well we have a pretty good source for that: every automotive journalist in the world.<p>The 3 series is getting praised all over the world in numerous magazines that it is one of the best handling cars BMW has ever made. FifthGear have tested it in their latest episode with a 48h almost non stop drive and they were very excited about this car.

KebabGud
03-30-2005, 02:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>Krampits</b>, how do you know the new IS is cheaper? How do you know it's better quality and has better reliability than the new 3 Series?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>History....<br>one must look to the past (or in this case.. the pressent) <p>I KNOW BMW is overrated when it comes to handeling.. its only the M3 that is as good as people say..<br>and I KNOW IS is mutch better handeling then the 3-series.. <br>and we all KNOW that the IS is mutch MUTCH more reliable then the 3-series.. (History)<p>learn form history.... dont make the same mistake others have made..<br>mercedes is crap .. (i just had to say it.. :D )

RikfromBelgium
03-30-2005, 02:20 AM
I'm sorry but the only possible reply to such a load of nonsense is <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/moon_1_D.gif" BORDER="0"> go live in your fantasy world

krampits
03-30-2005, 04:16 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sorry but the only possible reply to such a load of nonsense is <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/moon_1_D.gif" BORDER="0"> go live in your fantasy world</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Look who's talking. We haven't a signature in our posts that occupies half a page praying for a car. KebabGud OWNS a BMW and that's why he says he KNOWS. I am not a Schumacher and I have my own driving style. That means that no journalist can be in my shoes when I drive or when I spend my money on repairs or when I put my children into a car that is not safe enough for the money it costs. I don't believe in Gods on Earth. If you believe, then you are living in a fantasy world. Not me and neither Kebabgud or anyone else. Reliability and crash tests reports created by people like us. Not journalists or Gods and of course not imaginary creaters. Just plain ordinary people.

RikfromBelgium
03-30-2005, 07:18 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>krampits</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Look who's talking. We haven't a signature in our posts that occupies half a page praying for a car. KebabGud OWNS a BMW and that's why he says he KNOWS. I am not a Schumacher and I have my own driving style. That means that no journalist can be in my shoes when I drive or when I spend my money on repairs or when I put my children into a car that is not safe enough for the money it costs. I don't believe in Gods on Earth. If you believe, then you are living in a fantasy world. Not me and neither Kebabgud or anyone else. Reliability and crash tests reports created by people like us. Not journalists or Gods and of course not imaginary creaters. Just plain ordinary people.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What has my sig got to do with this <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Why on earth would it make a difference that he owns a BMW <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> I'm sorry, but I'll trust the entire automotive journalisme in stead of 1 bmw owner. Every 3 series has been praised about the handling, being the best in it's class. Manay consider it the benchmark in it's segment. Some even call it the 3 series segment ( and no rubbish magazines: Auto Motor und Sport, Autocar,... ) <br>Respected TV-shows liker Fifth Gear say it's amazing,....<br>No just ignore that, it's al a conspiracy. Because here's 1 BMW owner that claims otherwise. It's just 1000's of journalists overreacting. And they aren't ordinary people, no just some guy's who get together and decide to lie and give us nonsens about generation after generation of 3 series. It's actually rather bad, but they lack the skills to notice it.<p>Sure, I'm the one with the fantasy-world <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>

krampits
03-30-2005, 07:53 AM
Your signature has to do with it because you need an excuse to show off how good a car is. Not because you have fun driving it, but because someone else have fun driving it. How realistic !!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Owning a car means that you know the limits of this car, you know the problems of this car and you can actually compare it with what you've heard in magazines or gossips. And it is not just 1's owner opinion. It is the opinion of thousands owners arround the world that mentions their problems to an indepedent orginization and makes the reports we all read. All but you. Of course you don't know anything about it because you don't have the time to look arround you. You are too busy reading all that magazines that points out the best car of the world... <br>But then, this means nothing to you. Cause all that you need is a good review from a journalist and you are up to it. You just need the attention of the badge and not the merit. I actually want to have fun with my car and not someone else !!!

Santeno
03-30-2005, 08:17 AM
Hey I also own a 3 series BMW (My second) and I have to say that Kebab is wrong. The 3 series in any form (except maybe the 318) is one of the most rewarding driving sedans (from a driver's POV) in the market. Granted, IMO the finest example of a sport sedan (from a driver's POV) ever made by BMW was the E36 - The e46 and e90 have compromised a bit of the sporting feel for added luxury.<p>My only complaint when it comes to BMW's quality is that when things go wrong, be prepared to hand over your wallet to BMW - you won't be seeing it back for a while. That and BMW's odd choice of hardware and mounting points for on board tire changing gear.<p>The outgoing IS is much like the e36 from a handling POV. If I recall correctly, It was patterned and benchmarked against the e36. However, the fit and finish of the IS is a definited step below that of the e36 (mainly in the interior). Overall quality of the IS however is top notch. If I recall correctly, better even than BMW's, both in problems reported and overall maintenance costs. That doesn't mean that this car is superiror or inferior, just very similar, but with slight differences.<p>Now the New IS is an unknown quantity so it's hard to say. It can pretty safely be assumed that toyota learned their lesson (as they ususally do) and remedied the biggest complaints about the car - mainly the boy-racer exterior features and the less than lexus-like interior. I would expect it to be priced competitively, having most likely gone through toyota's continued part integration and decontenting of redundancies. I would imagine that once again performance is on par with anything BMW has to offer (except maybe the M3), though something tells me that the lexus might not have incurred as much of a sacrifice in sport in favor of luxury.<p>Oh yeah and MB's are not crap.

RikfromBelgium
03-30-2005, 08:44 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>krampits</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your signature has to do with it because you need an excuse to show off how good a car is. Not because you have fun driving it, but because someone else have fun driving it. How realistic !!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Owning a car means that you know the limits of this car, you know the problems of this car and you can actually compare it with what you've heard in magazines or gossips. And it is not just 1's owner opinion. It is the opinion of thousands owners arround the world that mentions their problems to an indepedent orginization and makes the reports we all read. All but you. Of course you don't know anything about it because you don't have the time to look arround you. You are too busy reading all that magazines that points out the best car of the world... <br>But then, this means nothing to you. Cause all that you need is a good review from a journalist and you are up to it. You just need the attention of the badge and not the merit. I actually want to have fun with my car and not someone else !!!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What are you talking about. You really have some strange opinions. Do you even know Topgear? It's is one of the most respected shows in the world. People surf the internet to find episoded to download it. Entire websites are founded to talk about the show. <br>I don't know about your financial state, but I can't afford an M5, or an AMG or a BMW for that matter ( however, the latest rates I think I could afford one, even as a student )<br>Journalists and shows are there to test the ordinary cars and extraordinairy cars. To give people an opinion even about cars they can't afford. Yes, opinions can differ, driving stysles can differ. But there are points, benchmarks a car can score points with. Certain expectations that have been accepted as minimal standards for that time of what a car should offer it's driver. This can be explained from different point of views. Many magazines will say an opinion from a comfort-point of view, but will state a slightly different vision for those who want sportiness. <br>This is not gossip, these are people who know how to drive, some very well. These are people who have driven 100's of different cars and have some expertise and the knowledge to compare one car to the other. They know the evolutions a certain brand has gone trough, or severel brands because that's their job. They can tell better than anyone if a car has evolved in a positive way, if it's better or worse than the competition: in general if it is a bad, good or amazing car.<br>Just throwing that all away like you do is just insane and makes me even wonder what the hell you're doing on a carforum if that's your opinion. <p>and if you can show me a respected report that says the 3 series is overrated and doesn't handle well, be my guest.

krampits
03-30-2005, 08:52 AM
I respect your opinion Santeno. You have an experience of driving both the cars, as I do. The fact here is that the IS had better reliability reports and IMO the handling was not bad at all. In fact, I personally thing it had better ride quality than BMW and it had no compromisings in the dynamics, or at least the compromising were insignificant. Having much less reliability problems than BMW, top notch quality as you said and provided that the new one has better safety features than BMW though, is not something that you can just pass. As for the design, for the interior and exterior, is a subjective issue. <p>On the other hand, one have to judge a car as a whole according of his/her driving style and not according of another person's driving style and experience. And that includes his/her wallet as well as his/her needs. So, if a car is better in every other aspect and too close in one of them, if not same, then you can't say it's a lose.<p>As for KebabGud, I personally don't agree that his is not right. Most of the BMWs in his country and mine are up to 320. And believe me, there is nothing to compare between the 316 or 318 with a 325 or 330.

krampits
03-30-2005, 09:34 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>and if you can show me a respected report that says the 3 series is overrated and doesn't handle well, be my guest.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I didn't say it doesn't handle well. You said that the IS doesn't handle well. If you can afford an M5 then be my guest and buy it. But you cannot convince me that the journalists are objective. That was all I said. Yes, they do know how to drive the cars. Yes they are better in this than we are. BUT, they are humans and they are not allways objective. In fact there are so different opinions even among them that it seems that they are more subjective than we do, (you said so too). <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Many magazines will say an opinion from a comfort-point of view, but will state a slightly different vision for those who want sportiness. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>And what do you mean about respectiveness of an article ??? What makes an article respective ?? From the numbers they sell ?? Well, if that's the case, then the C&D is one of the most respective magazine ever, but whe all know that it is subjective towards some manufacturer. That's why I prefer to have my own experience and opinion. So don't bring me as an argument the opinion of some journalists.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Just throwing that all away like you do is just insane and makes me even wonder what the hell you're doing on a carforum if that's your opinion. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am here to share my opinion with other's opinion. I respect other's opinion and I don't open a war with them as you did. <p>It's your privilege to listen to any journalist's opinions or not. It's even your privilege to ignore other serious professional's reliability and safety reports. But you cannot make me and all the others to ignore them.

Santeno
03-30-2005, 09:42 AM
alright you two, drop it. let's focus on the discussion at hand and not attack each other.

RikfromBelgium
03-30-2005, 09:45 AM
why did you remove my reply? it was legit. He says I said the IS didn't handle well, I have the right to ask him to show me were I said that.

Santeno
03-30-2005, 10:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why did you remove my reply? it was legit.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Because you directly attacked his person (for the second time I might add)<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He says I said the IS didn't handle well, I have the right to ask him to show me were I said that.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>That was Kebab not krampits. Though I think Krampits' assesment of the 3 series, is blowing the differences in quality, cost and performance abilities between the IS and the e90/46/36 way out of proportion in order to support his opinion. <p>The truth is that they are both very good cars at what they do and have very very similar dynamic performance numbers. BMW's lower ranking in quality numbers was not caused by consistent mechanical problems (although there might have been one or two that have been addressed), but rather by annoying electronic ones (Much like, but to a much lesser extent than, MB). <br>Did the Altezza copy the BMW formula for making a sports sedan? ABSOLUTELY. <p>Did Toyota make a superior OVERALL product than BMW? The widely supported opinion of both journalists and owners is no, however they came damn close, and the price advantage and better quality ratings of the toyota did draw a lot of people to that car. <p>Has the new IS continued following BMW? Yes and no. The basic concept remains the same (high power to weight ratio in a good handling, practically sized well packaged entry level luxury sedan). However, where BMW has increased both size and weight and has increased its emphasis in luxury, Toyota has moved to a different engine configuration (more inline with the rest of their line), and appears to be placing greater emphasis on the sporting look and over all feel and finish of the car. So now the two cars have more distinct visual and mechanical personalities, while still remaining very similar in on-road demeanor and targetting the same demographic.<p>If the differences where truly as pronounced as krampits and kebabgud make it sound there wouldn't be as large a diference in overall 3 series and IS sales. If the IS was as superior, one would expect consumers to have realized it and their preference would have been relfected in sales numbers (the IS is afterall cheaper than the 3). The fact is that while 3 series sales figures rose, those of the outgoing IS dropped. All of that said, The new IS appears to be a much more competitive and distinct package. who knows, with lexus' new found styling abilities, sales of the new IS jst might surprise us all.

zwei Biere bitte
03-30-2005, 07:10 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>krampits</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is Lexus's policy to be cheaper than BMW. In fact, Lexus announced that the new IS250 will cost something like the old IS200. We all know the prices of the new BMW and we know that it is pricier than the old IS200, (At least in my country). <p><br><i>Modified by krampits at 10:11 AM 3/30/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Once you count in the free matience for 4 years here, and the lower depreciation rate of BMWs compared to Lexus', it pretty much puts their costs over some years at the same exact level. <p>

krampits
03-31-2005, 03:44 AM
Well, I really don't know for the rest of the world, so I am going to try to give you an example of what is going on in my country.<p>BMW 320i (E46) MT, standard equiped price : 41200 Euros / 53325 USD<br>Lexus IS200 MT, standard equiped price : 35300 Euros / 45688 USD<p>(And I have to mention that the standard equiped IS200 is much much better equiped than the standard equiped BMW 320.)<p>That's ~7630 USD with today USD/Euro rate. Lexus is about 14,5% cheaper than BMW !!!<p>BMW warranty : 3 years<br>Lexus warranty : 6 years<p>Do I have to mention the cost of ownership for both the cars ? The only thing I will mention is the cost of the standard service for 30000 km, (~18641 miles). <p>520 Euros for BMW / ~673 USD<br>390 Euros for Lexus / ~504 USD.<p>Not to mention the difference in the cost of the parts in general.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by krampits at 2:01 PM 3/31/2005</i>

KebabGud
03-31-2005, 05:23 AM
wow ... still almost half price from what i must pay :P

krampits
03-31-2005, 06:40 AM
You 'll feel sorry of us if I tell you our salaries, my friend. The amount of money one have to pay for the 30000 km service for the BMW, is just about 70-80 Euros less than our basic salary.<br>But that's another story ...<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0">

Flagship
03-31-2005, 01:58 PM
Krampits, Ever since Lexus started in 1989 people have always been saying that they will never make it they said it with the LS,ES,RX,LX,SC,GX,???? and look at them now. It's amazing that there are still people who don't want to see Lexus succeed. Is it because they are the newest major luxury auto maker and one of the most successful. <p>Both the 3er and IS will be great cars but we never know. The IS might turn out to be crap, but there is always that possibility that the IS might out perform and out handle the 3er, we don't know, anything can happen.<br>(Dam that was long)<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 5:14 PM 3/31/2005</i>

krampits
03-31-2005, 02:13 PM
100% agree with you. But what's make me mad is that some people consider as a fact that lexus will be a crap.

Fcuke
03-31-2005, 10:45 PM
BMW all the way! =)

knicks125
04-01-2005, 06:03 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Fcuke</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BMW all the way! =)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not something you wanted to post in a Lexus/BMW thread...someone will come and haunt you down <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Not a fan of neither car but I dig the new IS very much...as I said before both cars are very attractive and have a lot to offer but the quality and the price of asian carmakers can't be matched <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Cozz
04-01-2005, 04:21 PM
I was in the new 3er and it looks/feels cheap from the inside. There's nothing about the interior that says "Wow"

KebabGud
04-02-2005, 09:31 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was in the new 3er and it looks/feels cheap from the inside. There's nothing about the interior that says "Wow"</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Yeh BMW does not really know how to make the interior of a car..<br>the E36 is really bad..<br>the E46 is not that bad.. until you look closer..<br>i have not seen the interior if the E90 .. but.. your not the first to say its .. cheap

LEXUS FAN!
04-02-2005, 10:37 AM
Wow, I can't belive I missed such a good discussion. Haha.<p>That was fun.

zwei Biere bitte
04-02-2005, 02:12 PM
This guy is a race instructor, and I figured you guys would appreciate a writeup produced by someone who does not depend on advertising money for income.... IE the auto mags....<p><A HREF="http://www.z4um.com/viewtopic.php?t=9743" TARGET="_blank">http://www.z4um.com/viewtopic.php?t=9743</A><p><b><i><p>The new 3-series has now arrived, amid much promise of improved dynamics and more power. The exterior design is very much a product of the Chris Bangle pen which typically produces two types of opinion  those who love it and those who loathe it. I personally think the front is the stronger angle, with aggressive, purposeful lines whereas the tail end has yet to grow on me. Overall, the effect is of a shrunk in the wash 5-series and the theme carries over into interior, with the long lengthy dash, i-drive control and engine stop/start push button. BMW claims to have worked hard on improving the quality of the materials used here but Id be lying to say I could tell the difference over the previous generation in this area. <p>Changes under the skin are more significant, with the new type multi-link rear suspension (a la 1-series), a more sophisticated DSC system and most of all, a much lighter and more powerful 3-litre straight six engine, featuring lightweight magnesium components and now producing some 258 BHP which is a pretty impressive output for a non M spec engine. BMW have moved more of this weight behind the front axle line in a bid to improve turn  in. <p>The engine fires up to the familiar muted Munich growl and we move off down the pitlane with minimal fuss  the car is easy to drive and immediately gives you the confidence to press on with the lap, the brakes are a little too sharp on initial bite but they are oh so powerful  youre literally shaving whole metres off your braking points as the lap unfolds, the real treat however is the turn in.. the nose changes direction incredibly well for a saloon car  a whole world better than the E46 which was a definite slow in - fast out job, this one is just so much faster pre-apex; the reduction in nose weight really obvious on Rockinghams typical long apex corners. <p>The level of steering feel is a clear improvement and communicative enough to read the grip level of the front tyres accurately and unload its weight nicely at the apex to let you know you can start getting on to the throttle. Its 258 bhp is easily swallowed up on the circuit but the power delivery is typically smooth and linear and revs sweetly all the way to 7000 rpm and it would be a missile on the road. The manual box shifts very lightly and with teutonic precision though I think the lever throw is still far too long  its completely out of harmony with the other controls which are all sharp and its a real shame because a short, sharp and zappy gear change would suit this car. <p>The new and improved DCS systems feature the usual traction control and diagonal braking spin prevention gizmos with more subtle elements such as gently clearing water off the brake discs by a minute and highly secret application of brake pressure that you would never notice. I certainly didnt but I did notice that the DSC gizmos do cut in much more gently than on the E46 which definitely had an emergency in progress feel as it aggressively arrested the cars attitude - I would guess this was more appropriate for those ohmygod road scenarios rather than circuit work but the new system is so much more usable and you can drive the car right on the edge of them cutting in without losing momentum - with the added bonus of not going off the road. <p>Overall, it really is another big step forward and for what is essentially quite a sensible mid exec choice of car it really packs a dynamic punch that could seriously embarrass genuine sports cars. The generously equipped 330i SE tested came to circa 37 K - which is fairly dynamic punch to the wallet as well  despite that and the more challenging looks theyll still sell in their droves on driving ability alone and rival manufacturers are going to have to pull something out of the bag to get back in the fight.<p></b></i>

Cozz
04-02-2005, 06:16 PM
But it still looks cheap from the inside. I'm not attacking it at all just saying that it fell short impressing me and the others with me. There are some lists on the net with the question if one would take the new one over the old one... I think most wanted the one on the streets now, I fully I agree.<p>

RikfromBelgium
04-03-2005, 06:48 AM
The 3 series beat the new A4 in interior quality in a test some time ago.

Cozz
04-03-2005, 08:41 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 3 series beat the new A4 in interior quality in a test some time ago. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's pure bull**** if anyone choose the 3er over the A4 in interior quality. I have sat on and worked on several new A4's and a new S4 and it's way ahead in interior quality. The only issue I have woth the A4 is the loudness on the door buttons. No kidding, you hear loud clicking from them everytime you press them.<p>Whoever said the new 3er has a better interior is clearly biased.

KebabGud
04-03-2005, 10:06 AM
better design on the "3er" .. yes .. but quality.. no

RikfromBelgium
04-03-2005, 11:13 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Cozz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>That's pure bull**** if anyone choose the 3er over the A4 in interior quality. I have sat on and worked on several new A4's and a new S4 and it's way ahead in interior quality. The only issue I have woth the A4 is the loudness on the door buttons. No kidding, you hear loud clicking from them everytime you press them.<p>Whoever said the new 3er has a better interior is clearly biased.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well it was Autobild, and it didn't stop them to choose the A4 as winner because it's the best allrounder. So I guess they weren't so biased.

Cozz
04-03-2005, 01:31 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Well it was Autobild, and it didn't stop them to choose the A4 as winner because it's the best allrounder. So I guess they weren't so biased. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Then they must be blind. The A4 probably has the best interior within the low range class form Germany.

Naga Royal Guard
04-03-2005, 02:40 PM
[ particular april sniff petrol image ]<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>argument ends here

LEXUS FAN!
04-04-2005, 05:01 PM
In the new MT there was an article of the new IS, and it seemed pleased.

Mindless T
04-05-2005, 06:10 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In the new MT there was an article of the new IS, and it seemed pleased.</TD></TR></TABLE> What is "it"and who's pleased?

knicks125
04-06-2005, 05:34 AM
i'm gonna take a wild stab at IT, and the it in Lexus Fan's post refers to MT...<p>he had the subject in the front...

LEXUS FAN!
04-06-2005, 06:14 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Mindless T</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> What is "it"and who's pleased?</TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Sorry...I guess it would have been better if I put "they." And "they" are pleased.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm gonna take a wild stab at IT, and the it in Lexus Fan's post refers to MT...<p>he had the subject in the front...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks.

knihc2008
04-09-2005, 11:06 PM
i've chosen the lexus IS. my family as an e46 which i drive very often and, while it handles like a charm and the inline 6 is silky smooth, the bucket breaks down so often; from misfiring plugs to astray gearbox lights to broken window switches to rickety a/c noises, the car has been in the shop more often than any other car we've owned, including our old benzes, mazdas, porsches, and of course the toyotas and lexus.<p>if the e90 is anything like the new 5er, the interior will be a true disappointment. the plastics of the 5er are plain cheap, and there is no exaggeration in saying that they have the same feel as the plastic off the dashboard of a hyundai. the e90 looks to continue this trend. add that to an exterior that looks okay simply because it is the least ugly of all the bangle-era designs (i do like the side...) and i'd take the IS anyday.<p>on a practical standpoint, the IS won't spend as much time in the shop. it looks good. there is not one unresolved line like the 3er (especially the back bustle!) is rife with. and the interior quality of the lexus just looks so much better. and if it's just 80% of what my e46 feels like (because, honestly, how much of that power or handling prowess are you going to use around town?) then i'll snatch one up, i fancy.

LEXUS FAN!
04-11-2005, 08:01 PM
that's sad about the BMW...<p>my brother's Honda is like that...i guess it all depends...<p>there is always a rotten egg, and you and my brother got one

Banker
05-13-2005, 12:38 PM
The new IS is the better looking and equipped car. It remains to be seen if it will perform better than the new 3 series.

olegk21
05-13-2005, 07:09 PM
if the lexus costs less, i would difinately go for it based on more power and lexus's quality and reliability

Jackie003
06-19-2005, 01:04 AM
LEXUS ALL THE WAY.<p>Will probably be more affordable, has excellent Toyota reliablity, lexus qaulity materials and a better engine. Not to mention more sport looking

KebabGud
06-19-2005, 06:11 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Banker</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The new IS is the better looking and equipped car. It remains to be seen if it will perform better than the new 3 series.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>of the E90 modells that have been launched the IS is miles ahead.<br>but if all the rumors of a 335i (3liter turbo) is true .. then they might have a problem.. (Lexus that is)<p>the E90 325i and the new IS250 might be in line to have a good fight..<br>but the IS350 is just too far above the 330i.. some say the IS350 gets from 0-60/100 faster then the M3.. (E46) <br>no offisial numbers on that yet