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Santeno
12-29-2004, 10:16 AM
This thread was tried once in the old forum and I thought I'd re-instate it here.<p>There are a few truly memorable vehicles who's very existance introduced something to the auto industry or into society's collective memory, that caused a shift in the way people viewed brands, companies and cars as a whole.<p>Let us know what cars (of any time period) do you think qualify for this description and MAKE SURE TO TELL US WHY.

knicks125
12-29-2004, 11:33 AM
I think the one car that had the most influence in the auto world had to be the Ford Model T, first introducd at almost a century ago - in a way, you could think of Henry Ford as the sole inventor of cars. <p>Alongside, Mr. Ford also introduced assembly lines, and subsquently created mass produced goods at a lower cost (his Ford Model T).

Audicted
12-29-2004, 11:43 AM
Watched Top Gear yesterday, where Jeremy Clarkson believes taht the VW golf is the most important car of the century<p>I disagree that it was THE most important, but it was still important

knicks125
12-29-2004, 12:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Audicted</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Watched Top Gear yesterday, where Jeremy Clarkson believes taht the VW golf is the most important car of the century<p>I disagree that it was THE most important, but it was still important</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Why was it important?

Santeno
12-29-2004, 12:50 PM
because it practically created (even thought there were a few similar cars prior to it) the small hatch segment, and because it went on to define it pretty much until the new generation came out.

knicks125
12-29-2004, 01:33 PM
Santeno, thanks <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I actually knew the reason for the Golf. I was just asking for fun, as I thought it'd be nice for Audicted to give out his reasons, that's all <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I didn't mean to come out this way <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Nice topic, BTW <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Naga Royal Guard
12-29-2004, 02:08 PM
even Car and TopGear regard the LS 400 as a major upstart in the game; an easy to use, and easy to own luxury car that was no-nonsense but still managed to be everything to the customer<p>and the engine was something BMW worshiped, they designed their M5 V8 beside it, toyota is rumored to have spent well over a billion dollars on developing the aluminum 4.0L unit which lives on as the 4.3 and became the ground work for their 4.7L castiron truck engine<p>also a car Mercedes Benz regretted to ignore but was forced ( by all the Japanese Lux marqs ) to rethink the way it designed and engineered cars<p>do buyers <I>really</I> want racetrack credibility or sportscar handling in their big luxury sedan? or do they want the best audio system on the market and a tactile quality that reflects 40% beyond the pricetag? all luxury marques had to think about this<p>now lets hope the next LS looks less like a toaster from the side <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0">

vabboud
12-29-2004, 02:11 PM
well here is my list<p><B>70's merc S class</B>: it proved that an executive car did not have to be big, fat, slow and cumbersome, rather that it could be fast, sleek, and attractive<br><B>McLaren F1</B>: Grandaddy of all supercars, nothing can match it in performance 10 years later, it was automotive engineering in its undiluted form, powered by a masterpiece from legendary engine designer Paul Rosche, it is the uncompromised perfect car that set the bars so high no one will probably dare to reach them and even if they do it will be with 30 times more tech<br><B>the bugatti Royale</B>: the greatest car almost never sold, powered by a monster 300 hp engine for its time, response of Ettore Bugatti to a shabby remark by a woman who told him he might build the fastest cars but Henry Royce still built the best. biggest baddest embodiement of luxury, ostentatiousness, and arrogance ever crafted<br><B>the original vette</B>: THE car to drive in the late 50's early sixties, the car that defined the decade<br><B>the 70's mustang</B>: muscle car extraordinaire, it and the dodge charger and the orginal camaro will never be matched<br><B>the VW beetle</B>: from Nazism, to communism, to socialism, to capitalism and imperialism, from WWII to the Cold war, Vietnam, the Korean war, the first Gulf War, from Herbie, to commercial movie star,Porsche's first Brainchild saw it all, it endured to be the greatest seller in history and was an icon never to be matched again

Naga Royal Guard
12-29-2004, 02:12 PM
the mazda <B>miata</B> also was a ground shaker, when mazda hired the reporter who suggested them taking the spirit of mousetrap-sized british sportscars and applying a fully modern body and engineering the miata proved to be a durable 2 seater that provided the same grace and fun as a triump spitfire, fiat ( forgot its name ) or MGB; and in typical Japanese auto tradition, it was relatively easy and inexpensive to own an operate so old farts could buy them, and their girlfriends wouldnt mind driving them either <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>they move around ~20k of them in the us anually <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>EDIT!<br>OMG how could i forget this<p>this car is also respnosible for the creatin for all of the followint:<p>Z3 roadster ( directly, hence its 318ti origins and 4 cyl initial powerplant)<br>porsche boxter (came to compete w/ the Z3)<br>Honda S2000 ( an extreme take on the same theme ) <br>Toyota MR-2 Sypder ( taking a stab at both the miata and boxter w/o a trunk )<br>Opel Speedster and Vauxhall<p>others too im sure <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Naga Royal Guard at 4:17 PM 12/29/2004</i>

vabboud
12-29-2004, 02:29 PM
Naga, i want more info about the toyota 4.0 V8<br>i'm interested in it<br>anyway<br>i would also add <br><B>the E39 5 series</B>, the greatest mid size luxury executive, the benchmark of all contemporary cars, and the one later cars will have to live up to, including the E60 5<br><B>and the original M3</B>, the orginal sport coupe that set the benchmark for everything after, a high revving I4, power, speed, sheer driving pleasure, the original ultimate driving machine, no aids, no tech, just the awesome engine, a smooth gearbox, a couple of pedals, seats and a great chassis, like the McLaren f1, we will never see another<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by vabboud at 11:36 PM 12/29/2004</i>

Naga Royal Guard
12-29-2004, 02:32 PM
there was a thread about it on another forum, ill try to post some more about it later <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

vabboud
12-29-2004, 02:34 PM
thanks i would really appreciate it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0">

Naga Royal Guard
12-29-2004, 03:03 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>vabboud</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks i would really appreciate it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>greetings, I have attempted to search on google for information regarding the engine you asked me about ( 1uz-fe) its quite hopeless, since supercars.net ( theres some really good information among the constant fighting) is such a huge forum; sorry to come up empty handed

vabboud
12-29-2004, 03:08 PM
no prob nagga, thanks for your troubles, if i knew yu were going to search for it i wouldn't ave let you, i would have lifted my sorry ass and tried myself<br>thanks though and <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> to further collaboration <p>EDIT:<br>here are some quick specs of the engine, i am still looking for more info, but's let get abck on topic, sorry guys<br>Lexus LS400 - 1UZ-FE - 1990 Build/Spec Build/Spec <br>engine Type - 90* V8 DOHC 32V<br>Engine Capacity - 3969 CC <br>Maximum Power - 190 kW @ 5600 RPM <br>Maximum Torque - 360Nm @ 4400RPM <br>Bore & Stroke - 87.5 X 82.5 MM <br>Comp Ratio - 10.0:1 <p>Lexus LS430 - 3UZ-FE - 2004 <br>engine Type - 90* V8 DOHC 32V <br>Engine Capacity - 4293 CC <br>Maximum Power - 207 kW @ 5600 RPM <br>Maximum Torque - 417Nm @ 3500RPM <br>Bore & Stroke - 91.0 X 82.5 MM <br>Comp Ratio - 10.5:1 <br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by vabboud at 12:57 AM 12/30/2004</i>

Flagship
12-29-2004, 05:21 PM
The Lexus RX300 changed how people looked at SUVs and also caused many other car makers to copy the idea. If Mercedes never made the ML none of this would of happened...

Hornbag
12-29-2004, 05:53 PM
Definitly the Rangerover! If that didnt happen we'd still be driving 1980 4WD's! It brought such high levels of comfort into an AWD, and kick started the trend! Also the VW Beetle.

Top Secret
12-29-2004, 06:22 PM
Porsche 911 defintely. It was the new era of sport cars and the invention of a car that no one else would dare copy. And its timeless styling of course...how similar does the original version look like the current one?

bum-man
12-29-2004, 06:53 PM
The W123 and Crown Vic, because were would we be without our taxis? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

BenFarkas
12-29-2004, 07:09 PM
I'd say the VW Beetle, I dunno why, but when I saw the question on the fourm, and I immediantly thought VW Beetle.

Verdegrrl
12-29-2004, 07:40 PM
Post war Alfas changed how people looked at small semi-affordable sedans. Starting with the 1900 (first mass produced Alfa), and then moving on to the Giulia Ti, Alfa defined small, light aerodynamic sporty sedans that could haul the kids to school and go racing on the weekend. However, Alfa dropped the ball in the marketing dept and BMW stepped in with their Bavarian version of the Alfa (2002) and never looked back.<p> <IMG SRC="http://www.swd-historicracing.co.uk/images/gallery/GiuliaTI_1.jpg" BORDER="0">

GSturb0
12-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Hey vabboud, since Naga is a little busy wth something (hint, it starts with p and ends with n haha) I'll gather info about 1UZ-FE for you.<br>For the development of the bmw m5 5L v8 BMW studied the 1uzfe. For the 1UZ-FE, they designed what is referred to as a "scratch" engine, in that it was designed from the ground up. Total development costs for the 1UZ are rumoured to be in the region of $1 billion (in 1980's dollars which, back then, was considered a fair amount of money!)<p>The engine is an all-aluminium alloy engine, displacing 3968cc (for a nominative 4.0 litre capacity). It has dual overhead camshafts per bank (or Quad-cams), four valves per cylinder and electronic multi-point fuel injection.<p>The design of the engine is inherently strong. For example, the engines has 6-bolt main bearing caps, the block is webbed and cross-bolted for extra rigidity, the crank is a forged steel item, as are the pistons which, in the early examples at least, were individually weighed and matched.<p>Toyota's engineers went to great lengths in the testing of the engine, in order to ensure that they would be reliable and trouble-free for the life of the car.<p>Consider this:<p>900 units were hand-assembled before any were actually installed into a vehicle.<p>During one particular test, engineers installed a 1UZ-FE into a vehicle and ran it (on a dyno) at the equivalent of 240KP/H for 87,000kms continuously!<p>The 1UZ-FE was used as a template by BMW when they designed the V8 which powers their current-model M5, which indicates what BMW thought of it.<br>Link: <A HREF="http://www.itplanet.net.au/Cressida/1UZ_history.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.itplanet.net.au/Cre...y.htm</A><p>Here's 1uz fe powering F40 replica : <A HREF="http://www.f40.co.nz/f40/index.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.f40.co.nz/f40/index.htm</A> <br> This is one of the smallest modern V8's, smaller then most BMW, Mercedes and Porsches V8's, as well as LS1/6/2, and it weights LESS.<p>The early versions had around 250hp, then it moved to 260-270hp, then to 290hp<br>They came in 4 speed autos, till it moved to 5 speed auto with the update of power from 260-270hp.<p>Life expectancy is around 200-300K miles and with good service they will exceed 500-600k mark.It weights around 410-430lb, came stock with a forged crank, forged pistons, piston and conrod oil squirters. stock the engine is limited to a safe output of about 500 crank hp due to the conrods and high compression, but the block and crank can take simply rediculous outputs. Theres a forum on <A HREF="http://www.lextreme.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.lextreme.com</A> feautering a stock block with aftermarket internals pushing 2000hp with dual superchargers if i remember correctly.<br>On the last note TRD used to make a supercharger kit for 1UZ-FE, so you can get those either new or used. Good luck.<p>

GSturb0
12-29-2004, 11:06 PM
Now my 2 cents on this topic lol. I think Chrysler minivans had a pretty big impact in 1980's.

NarutoRamen
12-30-2004, 12:11 AM
My thoughts...<p>The orginal Motor Car...there would be no cars without it<p>The original Quattro--Changed the rally world as well as the normal car world-better traction for all...YAY!!<p>Mazda RX cars-proved that rotary can be used on the road and successfully too.

vabboud
12-30-2004, 02:05 AM
thanks for the info, great stuff!!<br>i never knew this engine was so amazing<br>it reminfs me of the BMW v12 used in the McLaren F1, they also ran it continously on a dyno for ages <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
12-30-2004, 08:57 AM
The mini, the Beetle & the 2cv. They proved that a business case could be made for inexpensive vehicles form the masses. In many ways, those vehicles helped many countries develop their modern infrastructure. How many of you know someone who at one point in their life has owned at least one of those vehicles?<p>I thought so.

Giannis
12-30-2004, 09:12 AM
i think the E60 5 series play a basic role in todays automotive design. I, now, view all cars from a different ''angle''

LoneWolf
12-31-2004, 07:50 PM
Jeep Cherokee (XJ) -- 1980's introduction of the unibodied wagonette SUV gave birth to the SUV craze that may only now just beginning to wane.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Naga Royal Guard at 8:49 AM 1/4/2005</i>

AXLE
12-31-2004, 09:41 PM
Volvo 200 series. Safe, practical, reliable and really quick turbo versions!. <p>Volvo 200 series, 1975-1993.<p>R.I.P.

Redline
01-01-2005, 09:01 AM
The Audi S1 Quattro, brought a working, reliable, all wheel drive system to cars, forever changing the car world, and the Beetle, which brought transportation to the masses and became a car recognized throughout the world. Also the Cord 810 needs to be on this list, the first front wheel drive system in a car is a pretty big deal.

SV
01-01-2005, 09:58 AM
-the first (1885) mercedes car, which i think is the first actual car ever built; <br>-the ford model T which made cars affordable for the masses; <br>-the bettle because it sold in such huge numbers and was completely different engineering-wise than other cars at the time (and today); <br>-the original jeep and land rover, which are one of the first SUVs; the golf because it made its segment one of the biggest in the industry; <br>-the lexus LS400 because it sent all its competitors back to the drawing board; <br>-the original chrysler vans/renault espace because they invented the minivan segment;<br>-and i think the dacia logan will make a big impact, for western european countries because it's so cheap; and for developing nations and car markets because it's the first time a large manufacturer didn't just recycle an obsolete model for a developing country, but engineered an all-new model that was just as good as their more expensive cars designed for industrialized nations.

IcedG35
01-01-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm gunna go with the Jeep Cherokee or Nissan Pathfindiner or which ever mass produced SUV came first (sorry if I"m way off but these are the two i remember as being oldest) anyway, look at the segment they started

Nick
01-03-2005, 01:03 AM
actually that would go to the grandaddy of all SUV's...the one that started it all...The Chevy Suburban...that is deffinately one of the most important vehicles ever...it was the suv before there was such a thing as an suv...for sports cars I would have to say the vette...hands down...then for passenger cars, the E39 5 series...

Naga Royal Guard
01-03-2005, 09:07 AM
jeep probably did start it, and revolutionize it w/ the grand wagoneer, but the Range Rovers and second and third gen Land Cruisers had their hand it it as well<p>i guess the Grand Cherokee started the 30k class luxury SUV as well

syclone
01-03-2005, 03:04 PM
for those who put the 2cv on their list, i just stumbled accross a nice little article about it here:<br><A HREF="http://www.gizmohighway.com/autos/citroen_2cv.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.gizmohighway.com/autos/citroen_2cv.htm</A><p>in fact, the site has lots of good information on other cult vehicles, definitely worth checking out.

Alx1rl
01-03-2005, 03:39 PM
I think the 745li was pretty important, it bought a new style and new design cues and the infamous i-drive to the automotive market. And even the new cars coming out have similar rears....

Nick
01-03-2005, 04:39 PM
Jeep - developed for army transportation - 1940<br>Suburban - basically a truck-based station wagon - 1936<br>Land cruiser- development project based on the design of the Willys Jeep - 1950<br>range rover - the first range rover was manufactured in 1970, but the entire Land Rover project was made official in 1947<p>While other vehicles may have revolutionized the term "suv" there is no doubting the fact that the chevy suburban was the first mass produced SUV

taskbearer
01-03-2005, 05:12 PM
I'd have to say the renault scenic, the original MPV. The car became so popular that now every other automaker has one sort of MPV or the other. This was a car that changed the perception of automobile classification, so much so that a carmakers line-up is not complete without an MPV.

anonms
01-04-2005, 12:26 AM
How dare you all forget the wonderful, amazing, <B>TOYOTA PRIUS</B>!!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0">

taskbearer
01-04-2005, 03:20 AM
The daring peugeot 206 CC has to be on this list. At a time where the metal convertable roof was reserved for mercedes and lexus they went ahead to put it on a low price car making it the nest selling convertible in europe and igniting a new class of small cars with metal retractable roof.

Reppu
01-04-2005, 04:21 AM
Porsche 959 and Ferrari F40. They started the modern Supercars race.

pcread
01-04-2005, 06:45 AM
Land Rover did what Willys didn't; they took the 4WD out of the battle field and put it into the farmer's field. And consequently everywhere else on the planet. <p>Then Land Rover did the double and invented, yes invented, the SUV with the Range Rover in 1970. Although the Jeep Wagoneer predates the Range, it was a 4 door. The sportier 2 door Cherokee was first seen in 73/74.

Santeno
01-04-2005, 11:14 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pcread</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Land Rover did what Willys didn't; they took the 4WD out of the battle field and put it into the farmer's field. And consequently everywhere else on the planet. <p>Then Land Rover did the double and invented, yes invented, the SUV with the Range Rover in 1970. Although the Jeep Wagoneer predates the Range, it was a 4 door. The sportier 2 door Cherokee was first seen in 73/74.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Wrong on both counts paul. Military surplus Jeeps proved so popular with farmers after WWII thatWillis began to offer work and farm variants of the vehicles not long afterwards. Also The fully enclosed jeep (yes with off road capabability) that later went on to be called SUV, was invented by Jeep not Rover. What rover did do was create the Luxury SUV class, turning SUV's from a worker's tool to objects of desire (and a way to show of your supposed status).

pcread
01-04-2005, 11:50 AM
Not in the rest of the world. In Europe, Asia, Africa and even South America the only time anyone ever saw more than one Willys in a year (special exceptions aside) was during wartime. Land Rover has been taking people to the back of beyond for half a century. What is the first vehicle most indigenous people of the undiscovered world ever saw? A Land Rover. <p>As for the origin of the SUV...first define what you mean by Sports. The UV aspect of 4WD cars has been going seen the first General Purpose vehicles of WWII, but the S in SUV makes it a totally different beast. The original Range wasn't intended as a luxury vehicle for the rich who never get the tires muddy (like the &lt;insert name of modern SUV here&gt;), but a more comfortable car for their farmer clients. It could go to the same muddy/sandy/rocky/wet places as it's older brother and the extra added HP and impreved road handling made it into the grandaddy of them all.<p>The current breed of SUV owe more to the Range than the Cherokee. In fact, had you said the International Harvester Scout was the first SUV, I'd have been more inclined to concede points.

Naga Royal Guard
01-04-2005, 12:47 PM
i thaught BMW invented the SUV and didnt patent it until recently

IcedG35
01-04-2005, 09:09 PM
no that was jaguar (assuming ur kidding)

rman5001
01-04-2005, 10:37 PM
BMW 2002 for being one of the first popular sports sedans

taskbearer
01-04-2005, 11:19 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i thaught BMW invented the SUV and didnt patent it until recently</TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

syclone
01-05-2005, 01:48 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i thaught BMW invented the SUV and didnt patent it until recently</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No, you're mistaken. It was the automobile, not the SUV.

IcedG35
01-05-2005, 03:46 PM
1962 Jeep Wagoneer was the first 4WD vehicle ever offered with an automatic transmission

Ultomato
01-11-2005, 08:37 PM
prius

Superfresa
01-12-2005, 08:16 PM
Range Rover definitely....<p>First Suv with:<p>- Coil springs (all round)<br>- Disc brakes all round<br>- Extreme capability<br>- On road handling that would embarass a saloon (ok - nearly)<br>- Massive Torque<br>- Huge tow capacity<br>- a lot more...<p>In the long run, It was inspiration for any Suv any more luxurious than a tough old days Land Rover, Land Cruiser or Patrol