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View Full Version : Are there any car companies out there that really need help?


jijboi25
12-28-2004, 03:38 PM
I really don't think that it should since Kia is not as approved of as Hyundai is in terms of quality,acceptiblity,etc. in the US market.<p>The Sorento and Sedona should become Hyundai, and all of the other Kias should be sold only oversees. Kias name in the US should be changed Kora Automotive (just made the name up sounds kind of upscale to me) and become Hyundais luxury brand like Lexus is to Toyota. All of the existing Kia dealerships should become Kora dealerships and the first car they have would be the Kora Amanti as a competitor to the TL/ES300.<p>Hyundai should also have a Scion like company (not called Kia) in the dealership like Toyota and use it to sell the new Rio and other small affordable cars for teens.<p>Just wishful thinking <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/suave.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
12-28-2004, 05:43 PM
I like your ideas! You're abosutely correct as far as the overall standards of Hyundai cars being better than cars that have a Kia badge.<p>But, I do have a few comments regarding the other few points you made:<p>First of all, I don't think the Sorento or the Sedona should become Hyundai's lineup. Hyundai already has two SUVs that are currently sold in the US (Santa Fe & Tucson - both selling very well), and they are planning to bring its own Minivan to the US sometimes in 2006.<p>Secondly, as Mega (CSS member, our Hyundai insider <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> ) pointed out in the old site, Hyundai plans to bring its full line of luxury cars here in the US. If you'd take a look at Hyundai's corporate site, there are a lot more models than what is currently available in the US. Remember, you can't just bring everything all at once, that's why Hyundai's current strategy is perfect.<p>As far as having a company like Scion (parent company toyota), I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. One of the beauty for Hyundai models is its reasonable price but still offering lots of standard features. Heck, the Tiburon (Hyundai coupe) is within the same price range as the tC.<p>I think Kia serves a good supplement to Hyundai, but IMO, I don't think the two should be merged into one. The future of Hyundai, and as well as Kia is just the beginning (in the US).<p>Others, please add anything else I am missing, or other opinions that you might have <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

jijboi25
12-28-2004, 08:46 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think Kia serves a good supplement to Hyundai, but IMO, I don't think the two should be merged into one. The future of Hyundai, and as well as Kia is just the beginning (in the US). </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Dont you think that Hyundai and Kia will end up being competitors? I kinda think that Kia shouldnt have a car above the Optima because I think Hyundai should be midmarket (Like Buick), Kia entry level (like Chevy is) and the luxury brand up in Caddilac and Lincoln territory.<p>PS: Do you think that the Terracan will come to the US? I saw one last year while I was in Costa Rica and it looked pretty cool! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
12-29-2004, 08:39 AM
Well let's see, companies or brands that are in need of help, or at the very least serious re-evaluiation of their business plans. IMO they are as follows:<p>Bugatti<br>Proton<br>Perouda<br>MGR<br>Fiat Auto<br>Mitsubishi<br>Mercury<br>Rolls Royce<br>Smart<br>VW (the brand not the conglomerate)<br>Lancia<br>Hummer<br>and any number of tiny specialty would-be super car manufacturers.

jijboi25
12-29-2004, 09:48 AM
Yea I think that Mitsubishi needs serious design help. The new Eclipse looks pretty good from the side, and I think that the new Raider looks pretty good, but if Mitsubishi redesigns all of their trucks and freshens the Galant, I think they would be okay. Also, it would be nice to have a replacement for the Diamante and an all new flagship sports car like the 3000gt <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
12-29-2004, 09:57 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bluedevil1550</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea I think that Mitsubishi needs serious design help. The new Eclipse looks pretty good from the side, and I think that the new Raider looks pretty good, but if Mitsubishi redesigns all of their trucks and freshens the Galant, I think they would be okay. Also, it would be nice to have a replacement for the Diamante and an all new flagship sports car like the 3000gt <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>What is the purpose of this thread exactly? Do you want to discuss what you wish companies vehicle line-ups should be or is it about what companies are in need of aid/change?<p>What Mitsubishi needs is not styling help, but rather debt restructuring; a complete restructuring of their management culture; a serious program of quality control on their products; no more, "me too" products; and lastly, a very succesful and memorable advertising campaign.

knicks125
12-29-2004, 10:22 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bluedevil1550</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Dont you think that Hyundai and Kia will end up being competitors? I kinda think that Kia shouldnt have a car above the Optima because I think Hyundai should be midmarket (Like Buick), Kia entry level (like Chevy is) and the luxury brand up in Caddilac and Lincoln territory.<p>PS: Do you think that the Terracan will come to the US? I saw one last year while I was in Costa Rica and it looked pretty cool! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>IMO, I highly doubt Kia & Hyundai will end up being competitors. Hyundai owns Kia, so if Kia's doing well (even if better than Hyundai), it is Hyundai's gain, as the owner of Kia. On the other hand, if Kia is doing bad, Hyundai will defn. lend a hand out and try to improve Kia's image (sort it like what they are doing right now). Unless Hyundai and Kia break off, in the future, I don't forsee any competition between the two. But, when they do break off, if that is the case, then it's another story.<p>Kia can have whatever car they want to have, or whatever Hyundai and Kia want to have - both auto makers are doing fine right now, there's no point to make a sudden drastic change.<p>As far as the three divisions you suggested, entry, mid, and luxury, it's not a bad idea. I think Hyundai might be heading that way. If they are, I'd like to see them to go with more of a similar route like what Toyota did, Scion, Toyota and Lexus, as one company. But, I really don't think the route with Chevy, Buick and Cadillac (all part of GM) can provide much sense. GM is doing well mainly due to the total number of automakers it owns, and the variety of choices it offers. But, if you put any one of GM owned automakers by itself, I highly doubt it will have nearly the success as it is now, protected under the umbrella of GM and sharing success with its other companies, owned by GM. Toyota, on the other hand, has proven it can be successful with just its Toyota brand, and I hope Hyundai, if plans to divide, would use more of a similar route like Toyota did.<p>As far as Terracan, it will probably not come to the US anytime soon, there is just no place for it. Hyundai's current two SUVs, with Tucson slotting in the compact SUV class, and soon to be bigger Santa Fe (probably in 2006, as a 2007 model) slotting in the mid SUV class, are perfectly positioned. You probably know more about the Terracan than I do, the only way I think it might do well in the US is to design and introduce it as a true off roader, as the current two SUVs are probably not a good idea to go off road, although you can (operate with own cautions <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> ). Otherwise, the introduction of Terracan, I think, would just cancel out some of the sales of Santa Fe and Tucson. <br> <br>Let me know if you have other thoughts regarding this topic. To all, please comment if you have other opinions. Thanks <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Top Secret
12-29-2004, 06:52 PM
Why is RR on that list? I reckon it is perfectly fine as is. Sales are good, designs are good and hey are expanding their lineup, their company is stable...what's wrong?

Walker
12-30-2004, 01:04 AM
Rover can't seem to do anything worthwhile these days, they have to come out with something new soon to survive<p>Jaguar needs to update their design language to be more forward-thinking<p>Ford USA hasn't come out with any good mainstream products (i.e. not the Mustang, GT, etc) since the Focus, and from the looks of things its not getting much better; the 500 is a joke compared to the Chrysler 300.<br>Speaking of Ford, Mercury has done nothing truly original since the Cougar which was crap.<br>And Lincoln needs some new product to really compete with contemporary luxury brands.<p>Buick seems pretty pointless right now too, but they can survive if they find a brand identity; although I have no idea what that would be.<br>

Santeno
12-30-2004, 08:37 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is RR on that list? I reckon it is perfectly fine as is. Sales are good, designs are good and hey are expanding their lineup, their company is stable...what's wrong?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>It might be a bit of a strech, but I added them to the list because they are not meeting sales projections, they have only one model, and a limited dealership network (when compared to the competition)

pcread
12-30-2004, 08:39 AM
"Jaguar needs to update their design language to be more forward-thinking"<p>I think that is well in hand. Just wait til the new XK and S-Type are unveiled. Callum's the man.

Walker
12-30-2004, 01:04 PM
"I think that is well in hand. Just wait til the new XK and S-Type are unveiled. Callum's the man."<br>You are probably right, I am optimistic what with two new models in the near future, and Callum is one of the most talented designers in the industry.<br>

jijboi25
12-30-2004, 03:53 PM
Do you guys think that Isuzu will ever become a competitor in the truck/suv market again? Right now they only have the Asender (just another GM rebadge) and that suv really has nothing to offer over the Trailblazer which is probably cheaper.. Do you guys think that theyll survive in the US market until their "new models" come out?

CarMattZu777
12-31-2004, 07:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bluedevil1550</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you guys think that Isuzu will ever become a competitor in the truck/suv market again? Right now they only have the Asender (just another GM rebadge) and that suv really has nothing to offer over the Trailblazer which is probably cheaper.. Do you guys think that theyll survive in the US market until their "new models" come out?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, I think I should comment on that hehe :)<p>I believe they are competetive in the truck market, just not in the US. They just released a new sport utility vehicle, MU-7, and are planning a new SUV for the US that is supposed to debut either at this years LA or NAIAS. A Crosswind redesign is most likely in the works as well. And of course the ever mysterious sedan/coupe rumors. Isuzu can easily become a leader once more in Asia, Australia, Europe, Africa, and South America. Its the US that is so hard to penetrate. In the US, its unfortunatley more about brand image than actual vehicle worthiness and utility. Some great cars just dont sell here. <p>The D-MAX is definetly capable of becoming one of the best selling pickups. In every market it has been released in, its received awards and high sales. Even in Britain, where pickup sales have been low lately, it has created a new demand for lifestyle vehicles such as pickups. <p>What they need to understand is that they deserve better, as in an article I once read. A very good article describing Isuzu's current position, its past, and what it needs to do to succeed in the US. Its a really good article, and I will make a seperate thread so as not to clutter this one. <p>They dont need help. They need time. They have over nine decades of truck engineering know how, they have some of the best and most reliable powertrains, especially diesel, and they have a rich history as Japans first automaker.<p>They have wonderful staff and management that has brought the company from near-bankruptcy two years ago to Japans star success story, with profit up by the billions and a firm and healthy business plan. The stock is also the best performer of the year on Nikkei. <p>If not the US, Isuzu can at least become a leader in other nations, and is showing alot of progress recently. The gamble will be much more risky here though.<p>

knicks125
01-01-2005, 08:14 AM
bluedevil1550, I'd have to take back my last post here, well, at least a bit of the whole thing.<p>Rumor has it Hyundai is planning to push into the US market (mostly) luxury cars, as well as inexpense ones, in addition to the current lineup.<p>The list:<p>Hyundai Getz Hybrid (Small car)<br>Hyundai Luxury Sedan (Luxury Sedan)<br>Hyundai Entourage (minvan)<br>Hyundai Dynasty (Premium sedan)<br>Hyundai Pickup<br>Hyundai SUV (full size)<p>Many of the above is already sold in its home market (S. Korea)<br>

Redline
01-01-2005, 08:51 AM
I hate to agree with Santeno's list in some points, but its correct. Bugatti is a great manufacturer, but they set their goals too high and ended up pretty much assuring their dissapearence for about ten years after the Veyron is out again. VW though, isn't doing as bad as most on that list, but the Phaeton has been less than good to them, for reasons I still don't get. Perhaps people just don't want a luxury sedan for a (comparativly) low price if it's from a manufacturer that makes cheaper cars. But other than it I don't see any real problems with VW.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Redline at 2:35 PM 1/1/2005</i>

knicks125
01-01-2005, 09:08 AM
we all have to agree with Santeno, even sometimes when we feel otherwise <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

SV
01-01-2005, 09:45 AM
IMO here are the ones that need help:<p>-izuzu (if matt's right they won't need to be on the list for long)<br>-VW (just drop the phaeton and stop moving upmarket)<br>-rover (they're doing as good as they can given the state of things, but they really need the RD60)<br>-fiat (more cars like the panda mk2 and they could be fixed)<br>-mitsubishi (complete restructuring)

taskbearer
01-02-2005, 02:55 AM
Snteno nailed that list. <br>Smart......They lost it from the point they decided to make the forfour, sank even further when they greenlightd the formore. this company needs restructuring. they should structure their products around the ideals of the forfun and fortwo.<p>Proton.... IMO this company still makes cars like they're in the 90's. Their gen2 is doing poorly both in the home country and UK. They should become more agressive and keep up with the competition like hyundai has done. <p>Perodua.... Well still under the proton umbrella, they should wake up and start making cars focusing on basic necesities more in the lines of daihatsu, i.e become a malaysian small car expert. their financies are pretty OK way better than proton's. Ranked NO. 7 in " Profits to income ratio" for 2003.<p>Lancia... this great marque should not be abandonned the way it is right now. Their recent concepts showed promise. Fiat should put more attention to this brand.<p><br>

SV
01-02-2005, 07:21 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They lost it from the point they decided to make the forfour, sank even further when they greenlightd the formore. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>actually the formore has been cancelled, or at least put on hold.

syclone
01-03-2005, 09:25 AM
im still trying to firgure out what has happened to smart. i see so many of them on the road its hard to believe they are in any trouble at all. is it the kind of hummer and new beetle syndrome where everybody that wanted one bought one when they were new and they have no staying power?

taskbearer
01-04-2005, 11:05 PM
The smart problem has much to do with the company's structure. Most of the work is done by 3rd party companies, this is good for a low volume car so even if it fails the company is not affected too much. <p>But when the volume grows too much, it begins to hurt and becomes les profitable thats why smart prices are so high. So they might be selling a lot of vehicles but the company makes losses instead of profits. I think DCX is planning on moving everything inhouse for the next generation, so they can enjoy the higher efficiencies.<p>Smart is no longer a risk company, it has proven that it can be sucessful, so DCX can afford the high initial costs of moving the production inhouse. This problem only affects the TRUE smarts, forfour is not affected by this cause it shares costs with mitsu colt.

syclone
01-05-2005, 01:49 PM
gotcha, thanks

jijboi25
01-16-2005, 08:26 AM
What do you guys think about Jaguars situation with sales and other things in the US? What can they do to become a larger player in the luxury car department?<p>Possibly Jaguar SUV? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0">

syclone
01-22-2005, 10:56 PM
There will be no Jaguar SUV. Thats why Ford has Land Rover.

ricerammer
01-28-2005, 12:07 PM
I really think the only major company that needs help right now besides Mitsubishi is GM. With Brian Nesbitt on board, GM is in for a downfall. I don;t know who is in charge of interior design, but frankly it's quite saddening. It seems like every other GM car uses the same steering wheel. The Corvette C6 uses the same steering wheel as a Malibu or Cabolt does. Same with Pontiac's new G6. The new "idea" for interior design is horrible. Not only are the interiors bland. but the seem to be of low quality. The interiors on foreign car are far better in my opinion. <br>Also, thier mainstream engines are problems power wise. A G6 has a 3.5L V6 that can only muster 200 HP. The Malibu Maxx can barely make 200. Also, with the power of most of today's cars, that 200 HP isn't very good. For example, a 3.5L V6 in a Nissan Altima makes 250. That's an increase of 25%. <p>End of rant

pcread
01-29-2005, 03:21 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There will be no Jaguar SUV. Thats why Ford has Land Rover.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No SUV. Probably a crossover S-Type wagon.<br>