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Charger
03-24-2005, 09:34 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_newyork/suzuki/images/1.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_newyork/suzuki/images/ConceptX2_dash.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br>source: autoweek

-Peter-
03-24-2005, 10:22 AM
reminds me of that new Mitsubishi SUV that where shown in the Mitsubishi restructuring-thread?<p>some co-operation maybe?

Charger
03-24-2005, 10:23 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>-Peter-</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">reminds me of that new Mitsubishi SUV that where shown in the Mitsubishi restructuring-thread?<p>some co-operation maybe?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Your right, they do look similar.

JBlair
03-24-2005, 11:11 AM
This must be based off SX3 (or whatever its called), because the interiors are very, very similar.

Tidal
03-24-2005, 11:16 AM
I don't see any similarities...<br> <IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_newyork/suzuki/images/ConceptX2_dash.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><A HREF="http://www.cheersandgears.com/s3x/3.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.cheersandgears.com/s3x/3.jpg</A><p>Isn't this just a thinly disguised new Grand Vitara?

Monkey
03-24-2005, 11:39 AM
Suzuki Equinox?

nismo
03-24-2005, 12:04 PM
Yes it is... uncovered spy pics were leaked awhile ago. This has nothing to do with Mitsu. This is basically the new Grand Vitara.

Santeno
03-24-2005, 12:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This must be based off SX3 (or whatever its called), because the interiors are very, very similar.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Not similar, identical<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Monkey</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Suzuki Equinox?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>That is exactly what it is. I wonder if this thing will retain the off road abilities of the Vitara or if it's turning into just another soft cute-ute?

CalinG7
03-24-2005, 12:50 PM
I'm not so sure. Maybe it's the styling but it looks shorter than the Equinox. Maybe it's more related to the Vue, but it's a poor picture so I could be way off.

Pavilion
03-24-2005, 01:53 PM
This is beautiful, and i can truely say that it is the first Suzuki iw would consider buying. What a design turn around. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

CalinG7
03-24-2005, 02:48 PM
Why is it that non-GM brands can take GM mechanicals, engines, and factories and make some pretty interesting vehicles like this one, but GM's own American brands mainly deal in grill swaping and scrounge around for the oldest technology they can drudge up? <p>Yes this is nice, clean-looking. What could've been...............

AM2
03-24-2005, 03:06 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Not similar, identical<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is it identical?<br>The Saturn Vue, Chevy S3X and Equinox have transverse engines. <br>The Concept X-2 has a 4X4 transfer case and a beefed up platform(built in ladder frame) <br>If it is similar to the S3X, it must have a transverse mounted engine. I'm not familiar with any AWD SUV with a transverse engine and a 4X4 transfer case.<p><B>Genuine SUV Toughness</B><br><B><I>The Concept-X2 is equipped with a V6 DOHC engine with a five-speed automatic transmission expected to deliver 185 horsepower. The result is a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle enabling its drivers to pursue their own adventurous way of life. <p>Built for authentic off-road capability, the Concept-X2 offers unibody, built-in ladder-frame construction, four-mode, full-time, 4x4 transfer case with locking center differential and four-wheel independent suspension. Four separate 4x4 traction modes - high-range, high-range lock, low-range lock and neutral - enable the vehicle to match its off-road capability to any terrain. </I></B> <br>-Autoindex<p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 6:21 AM 3/25/2005</i>

CalinG7
03-24-2005, 04:06 PM
Well, that little snippet you quoted says it has a unibody chassis but also a built'in ladder frame. Is that possible?? Insn't it either a unibody or on a ladder frame?? The only sort-of combination of the two types I've heard of is the LR3 chassis, but that's pretty expenssive and a new concept. <p>However, taking into account that it does say it's built on a unibody chassis, it has a V6 that produces 185 hp and a 5-speed transmission, it sounds exactly like the setup on the Equinox, though that engine is a pushrod not DOHC. So this article is really pretty confusing.

JBlair
03-24-2005, 04:16 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it identical?<br>The Saturn Vue, Chevy S3X and Equinox have transverse engines. <br>The Concept X-2 has a 4X4 transfer case and a beefed up platform(built in ladder frame) <br>If it is similar to the S3X, it must have a transverse mounted engine. I'm not familiar with any AWD SUV with a transverse engine and a 4X4 transfer case.<p><B>Genuine SUV Toughness</B><br><B><I>The Concept-X2 is equipped with a V6 DOHC engine with a five-speed automatic transmission expected to deliver 185 horsepower. The result is a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle enabling its drivers to pursue their own adventurous way of life. <p>Built for authentic off-road capability, the Concept-X2 offers unibody, built-in ladder-frame construction, four-mode, full-time, 4x4 transfer case with locking center differential and four-wheel independent suspension. Four separate 4x4 traction modes - high-range, high-range lock, low-range lock and neutral - enable the vehicle to match its off-road capability to any terrain. </I></B> <br>-Autoindex<p><i>Modified by AM2 at 6:21 AM 3/25/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>The platform is Theta, that has already been established. The engine is indeed different, and the interior shares a lot with the S3X, but is different. I actually think this is based more off Torrent than anything else, especially around the front.

CalinG7
03-24-2005, 04:19 PM
OK, but what's the difference between a Torrent and an Equinox? What do you mean when you say it's based off the Torrent more than anything else?

RENCO
03-24-2005, 04:29 PM
<A HREF="http://suzukiauto.com/about_suzuki/concepts/concept_x2" TARGET="_blank">http://suzukiauto.com/about_su...pt_x2</A>/<p>has some more pics. anyone else thinks it looks like a bigger RAV4 from the side?

jro4566
03-24-2005, 10:46 PM
I'm beginning to doubt it's based on Theta...<p>-2.7L V6 from Suzuki<br>-curbsite loading tailgate with tailgate mounted spare<br>-smaller wheelbase than other Thetas<br>-Clarion audio system (not Delco)<br>-Suzuki steering wheel and gauges (electroluminescent)<br>-Suzuki designed 4WD system and safety systems<br>-comes with XL-7's front buckets<br>-ladder frame design (yet unibody...?)

nismo
03-24-2005, 11:18 PM
Yeah, I don't think this is based on the Theta platform... Suzuki stresses that this is an "offroad" vehicle. I think Suzuki is going to use a stretched Theta platform for their midsize crossover. Nope, theres no pushrods in Suzukis. They bought the rights to GMs 2.8l VVT V6 and 3.6l VVT V6 for their models... so expect either a small older Suzuki V6 or one of those new GM V6s.<p>Their new midsize crossover(original Concept X) will feature the 3.6l and the next Daewoo Magnus/ Suzuki Verona based on the epsilon platform will feature one of the new GM V6s too...

AM2
03-25-2005, 02:26 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The platform is Theta, that has already been established. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Has it been established?<br>I havent heard of Suzuki or GM creating a transvere mounted engine with a high range/ low range 4X4 transfer case.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jro4566</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>ladder frame design (yet unibody...?)</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I think it has a full length ladder frame integrated into the floorpan.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CalinG7</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, but what's the difference between a Torrent and an Equinox? What do you mean when you say it's based off the Torrent more than anything else?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Torrent is an Equinox with a Pontiac face.<br><IMG SRC="http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/2006/Pontiac/100460592/20022008-E.jpg" BORDER="0"> <IMG SRC="http://autobzor.com/photo/chevrolet_equinox_1.jpg" BORDER="0">

jro4566
03-25-2005, 08:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, I don't think this is based on the Theta platform... Suzuki stresses that this is an "offroad" vehicle. I think Suzuki is going to use a stretched Theta platform for their midsize crossover. Nope, theres no pushrods in Suzukis. They bought the rights to GMs 2.8l VVT V6 and 3.6l VVT V6 for their models... so expect either a small older Suzuki V6 or one of those new GM V6s.<p>Their new midsize crossover(original Concept X) will feature the 3.6l and the next Daewoo Magnus/ Suzuki Verona based on the epsilon platform will feature one of the new GM V6s too... </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Exactly. This SUV has already been confirmed by Suzuki Media to use the 2.7L DOHC 24V V6 found in the XL-7. The XL-7 replacement is confirmed to be on Theta with GM's 3.6L DOHC 24V V6 VVT, like the Concept X. Suzuki has said that the next XL-7 will not be based on the Grand Vitara. So it's either this on Theta or the XL-7 on Theta, and it's obviously the latter.

thainogkok
03-27-2005, 01:53 AM
American suzuki has confirmed..next generetion vitara will use Unibody with built-in ladder frame,so they not use theta.<p>but what is Unibody with built-in ladder frame like (i know it's a combination ) any more info or example?

jro4566
03-27-2005, 10:18 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thainogkok</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">American suzuki has confirmed..next generetion vitara will use Unibody with built-in ladder frame,so they not use theta.<p>but what is Unibody with built-in ladder frame like (i know it's a combination ) any more info or example?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, American Suzuki hasn't confirmed it yet, but upper management has told press in interviews about the platform. We're still waiting for a better press release, but here's what's up for now...<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thainogkok</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tom Carney, Suzuki's director of sales and marketing in the U.S., revealed that the X2 will be built in Japan, unlike the X, which is scheduled to go into production next year at the company's CAMI plant in Ontario. A production version of the X2 could appear as soon as two months from now, according to Carney.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>So no, American Suzuki hasn't officially said this isn't based on Theta. Theta could be modified to have a built-in ladder box frame on the inside, but I doubt GM would do that. I'm 100% sure that this is not Theta.

AM2
03-27-2005, 11:44 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jro4566</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Theta could be modified to have a built-in ladder box frame on the inside, but I doubt GM would do that. I'm 100% sure that this is not Theta.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I guess the fact that the engine may be pointing in a different direction and the fact that it has a 4X4 transfer case means that this is 110% not a Theta based SUV. <br>WHat do you think? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Rugbyplaya91
03-27-2005, 06:17 PM
that looks relaly nice!

bolita
03-28-2005, 07:27 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Not similar, identical<p><br>That is exactly what it is. I wonder if this thing will retain the off road abilities of the Vitara or if it's turning into just another soft cute-ute?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>My guess is that the Grand Vitara is moving up market thus becoming another soft cute ute...<p>The next Grand Vitara should begin production May/June as a 2006 and the separate XL7 should follow a year later based on another platform...

nismo
03-28-2005, 09:10 PM
read the specs this is no soft roader... its not related to any theta vehicles.

thainogkok
03-29-2005, 03:29 AM
<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">read the specs this is no soft roader... its not related to any theta vehicles. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>yes nismo, I agree with you.

carrera4
03-30-2005, 01:24 AM
<A HREF="http://www.babez.de" TARGET="_blank">http://www.babez.de</A><br> <IMG SRC="http://www.babez.de/suzuki/conceptx2/pic02.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.babez.de/suzuki/conceptx2/pic03.jpg" BORDER="0">

erzhik
03-30-2005, 03:17 AM
looks good..but on the first pics, it reminds me an Audi Q7

Fcuke
03-30-2005, 07:56 AM
Lookin abit like VW Toureg i think <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

AXIS
03-30-2005, 10:06 AM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> I really like this hopefully this model marks the begining of the end to the DAEWUKI's

thedesigner
03-31-2005, 11:56 PM
Guys... are you blind or praying for a new product? It's a hopped up Theta.... period.... it's a carryover engine from the Grand Vitara, Period.... as for the transfer cases and 4x4 like performance: Its either a reprogrammed AWD or Suzuki somehow squeezed their hardcore tranny into the Theta. This is not pure ladder frame like the previous Vitara. Do you know what hard points are? Look at the angle of the C-pillar rake... the A-Pillar, the B-Pillar... look at the door mounting points, look at the THETA clamshell like hood... Ugghhhhh it's a dead ringer for the Vue and Torrent... with tons of Equinox from the B-pillar foward... just better looking with a longer rear door. Here's your production pic that I'm sure is somewhere else on the boards.<p><IMG SRC="http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11288-212922-1138/vitara1.jpg" BORDER="0"> <IMG SRC="http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2005/chevy.equinox/05.chevy.equinox.f34.500.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/242004153425.jpg" BORDER="0">

jro4566
04-01-2005, 05:44 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Guys... are you blind or praying for a new product? It's a hopped up Theta.... period.... it's a carryover engine from the Grand Vitara, Period.... as for the transfer cases and 4x4 like performance: Its either a reprogrammed AWD or Suzuki somehow squeezed their hardcore tranny into the Theta. This is not pure ladder frame like the previous Vitara. Do you know what hard points are? Look at the angle of the C-pillar rake... the A-Pillar, the B-Pillar... look at the door mounting points, look at the THETA clamshell like hood... Ugghhhhh it's a dead ringer for the Vue and Torrent... with tons of Equinox from the B-pillar foward... just better looking with a longer rear door. Here's your production pic that I'm sure is somewhere else on the boards.<p><IMG SRC="http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11288-212922-1138/vitara1.jpg" BORDER="0"> <IMG SRC="http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2005/chevy.equinox/05.chevy.equinox.f34.500.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/242004153425.jpg" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think I'll wait for confirmation from a PR person from Suzuki Media first...<p>If you look at the specs, the width of the X2 is a couple of inches wider than the 71.4/71.5in width of the Equinox and Vue. Now it's not impossible to widen a platform, but it would cost a lot to do so.<p>Also, GM doesn't like to do more than 2 "configurations" of each of their new platforms. Theta and Epsilon both come in 2 wheelbases, short and long. The Vue is the short-wheelbase version, whereas the Equinox is the long. The X2, however, is a couple of inches shorter than the Vue's wheelbase.

nismo
04-01-2005, 06:23 PM
yeah, I don't think this is Theta based. Sites have said that the Suzuki's mid-size SUV will be use the Equinox's stretched Theta platform and Suzuki is only using the platform for one SUV.<p>Also to consider, the Vitara is actually known in certain regions for its off-road capabilities which would be lossed in the Theta platform. They say too much on suzuki's website that make seem way different from the Theta based vehicles...<p>lol... DAEWUKIs, thats funny. That relationship actually may grow. The next Suzuki Verona/Daewoo Magnus is already under development and will use the Epsilon platform, one of GMs VVT V6s, and Suzuki will help develop it...<br>Considering what GM-DAT did with the Theta platform with the Chevy S3X concept this might be something to look out for.

thedesigner
04-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Hey.... I could definitely be wrong... I just like to sound like I have strong convictions. Honestly though.... if this is supposed to be a Suzuki and it doesn't share the Vue/Equinox/Torrent platform, why does it share so many damn styling cues.... I mean WOW! the clamshell... the Equinox/Torrent bumper guard, the Vue's C-pillar treatment, the Equinox's tail-lamp, etc... etc... etc???... I think they may have modified a whole lot of GM chassis components. I still think a ton of mounting points are shared.... we shall see.

hokman
04-01-2005, 11:10 PM
In the past GM needs to sell corolla and now it's the reverse japanese suzuki and isuzu needs to sell GM cars.

AM2
04-02-2005, 01:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey.... I could definitely be wrong... I just like to sound like I have strong convictions. Honestly though.... if this is supposed to be a Suzuki and it doesn't share the Vue/Equinox/Torrent platform, why does it share so many damn styling cues.... I mean WOW! the clamshell... the Equinox/Torrent bumper guard, the Vue's C-pillar treatment, the Equinox's tail-lamp, etc... etc... etc???... I think they may have modified a whole lot of GM chassis components. I still think a ton of mounting points are shared.... we shall see.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Your basing your judgement on similarities of cosmetic details such as the shape of the lights and bumper guards? Clamshell? you mean the hood? the 1st generation Vitara had them too.<p>What about the size and proportion of the actual vehicle? Like the way the Vitara's A-pillar base starts further back compared to the Vue and Equinox.<br>Also notice the very short overhang, which is possible because the Suzuki engine is not transverse and is mounted furhter back...<br>Here are the side views of the SUVs so you know what I mean...<br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/5903/gmsuzukicomparisson3su.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>

nismo
04-02-2005, 02:07 PM
This further proves that this is not Theta based... Why would Suzuki spend so much money and time to make the Theta a truck platform? They're not in depth like GM they can make their own platforms, (especially small SUV platforms that they have been doing for way longer than GM). They just happen to have some similar styling cues... that many SUVs on the market also have.

JBlair
04-02-2005, 03:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This further proves that this is not Theta based... Why would Suzuki spend so much money and time to make the Theta a truck platform? They're not in depth like GM they can make their own platforms, (especially small SUV platforms that they have been doing for way longer than GM). They just happen to have some similar styling cues... that many SUVs on the market also have. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>We'll have to wait and see, because Suzuki usually uses either GM or Daewoo platforms for their cars. Seeing as how the new Daewoo SUV will be Theta-based, it is a logical assumption that this is theta as well.

nismo
04-02-2005, 08:01 PM
Suzuki has yet to use a GM platform, the Theta will be a first. the Sidekick/Vitara/Tracker and Swift/Metro are Suzuki engineered. GM just sold them under their brands. The Suzuki Verona, Reno, and Forenza are Daewoos though.<p>I guess I just think this is not Theta based because from a manufacturing standpoint it wouldn't make sense. The setup is so different they would probably have to make this on a different assembly line. Also, the oringinal Concept X was an off roader and has a similar wheelbase with the Equinox... but like you said we'll have to see.

JBlair
04-02-2005, 09:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Suzuki has yet to use a GM platform, the Theta will be a first. the Sidekick/Vitara/Tracker and Swift/Metro are Suzuki engineered. GM just sold them under their brands. The Suzuki Verona, Reno, and Forenza are Daewoos though.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is true. however, the new Daewoo SUV is a theta.

thedesigner
04-03-2005, 03:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your basing your judgement on similarities of cosmetic details such as the shape of the lights and bumper guards? Clamshell? you mean the hood?...<br>What about the size and proportion of the actual vehicle? Like the way the Vitara's A-pillar base starts further back compared to the Vue and Equinox. the <br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/5903/gmsuzukicomparisson3su.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Not completely.... I questioned why it has to look so damn similar... it makes me wonder what's going on with mounting points beneath the surface. Don't you be deceived by some pretty simple visual gimmickry either... look at where the bottom of the clam-hood runs straight across to the belt line of all 3 vehicles.... it's the same... now look where the A-Pillar would meet the belt line above the wheel well STRUCTURALLY not cosmetically.... look at the post angles, ughhh... too many similarities to be completely different platforms... And for the record guys and gals.... it's not impossible to modify a platform to this extent.... The Pilot, MDX, Odyssey and Ridgeline clearly prove that. Maybe Suzuki is going to turn a 6 around like the Daew.... I mean Suzuki Leganz.. I mean Verona... who knows, maybe it runs on hope.... there's still an unnecessary visual link between the Suzuki and its GM cousins regardless of its potentially shared or unshared componentry. In either case why isn't there a family resemblance (aside from interior) with the overseas Suzukis? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

AM2
04-03-2005, 11:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Not completely.... I questioned why it has to look so damn similar... it makes me wonder what's going on with mounting points beneath the surface. Don't you be deceived by some pretty simple visual gimmickry either... look at where the bottom of the clam-hood runs straight across to the belt line of all 3 vehicles.... it's the same... now look where the A-Pillar would meet the belt line above the wheel well STRUCTURALLY not cosmetically.... look at the post angles, ughhh... too many similarities to be completely different platforms... </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Your talking about body/styling details... I'm talking about big differences like proportions(very short front overhang), and how the engine can even fit if it were mounted like the way engines are mounted in the Theta platforms.<br><B>If it is based on a Theta, would you be kind enough to explain to us how a transverse V6 engine will fit in the nose of the Concept X2/new Grand Vitara?</B> <br><IMG SRC="http://img157.exs.cx/img157/1065/gmsuzukinoses7fa.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>...Look at the Vue's engine bay and engine location. Radiator in hidden from view, but its infront of the engine. <br><IMG SRC="http://images.autobytel.com/view/aic/SATURN/VUE/spe/usa_2005_SATURN_VUE_spe_4_x_indrvreng_x.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>Look again on how short the nose of the X2/ new Grand Vitara is.<br>Same Theta platform?<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>there's still an unnecessary visual link between the Suzuki and its GM cousins regardless of its potentially shared or unshared componentry. In either case why isn't there a family resemblance (aside from interior) with the overseas Suzukis? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>If you were wondering what inspired the flat sloping front and the clam hood with little side vents, its not because of GM... look at the 1st generation Vitara. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I believe they are linking its styling to the old Vitara and not the other Suzuki's like the Jimny, Ignis, Swift, Aerio etc....<br><IMG SRC="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/8463/suzukivitaranoses2wy.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 3:09 PM 4/4/2005</i>

nismo
04-04-2005, 09:37 PM
I don't think any Honda platform is unibody/built in ladder frame style.. so no their platform has not been modified that significantly.<p>This is like saying the Toyota Highlander and 4Runner share platforms... they don't, ones a soft roader/car based and the other truck based/Unibody.<p>Is it even possible to make the Theta a Unibody/Built in Ladder Frame...?

thedesigner
04-05-2005, 12:00 AM
I'd be curious to know what modifications were done to the Pilot platform to ready it for Ridgeline duty.... Honda says they reinforced the chassis.... what does that mean.... what does Suzuki's info mean anyway??? It sounds like a ladder frame was put into a soft-roader chassis.... I'd like to know the specifics.... and OBVIOUSLY it's not the same overhang.... are any of you just a little miffed at the visual similarities going on here?.... it's not a passing resemblance or even a stretch of the imagination to assume there's a possible connection. I already said earlier that Suzuki was using their own engine.... if GM can put a Honda engine in the same bay as that Chinese rock would otherwise occupy why can't the chassis be modified to accomodate a more compact engine? Oh... wait... it could be.... whether it has been or not do you understand the flexibility of chassis componentry? I'm not saying it's one way or another.... I'm really thrown by the aesthetic similarities.... I can't find a reason for it.... from a designer's point of view.

AM2
04-05-2005, 03:05 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd be curious to know what modifications were done to the Pilot platform to ready it for Ridgeline duty.... Honda says they reinforced the chassis.... what does that mean.... what does Suzuki's info mean anyway??? It sounds like a ladder frame was put into a soft-roader chassis.... I'd like to know the specifics.... and OBVIOUSLY it's not the same overhang.... are any of you just a little miffed at the visual similarities going on here?.... it's not a passing resemblance or even a stretch of the imagination to assume there's a possible connection. I already said earlier that Suzuki was using their own engine.... if GM can put a Honda engine in the same bay as that Chinese rock would otherwise occupy why can't the chassis be modified to accomodate a more compact engine? Oh... wait... it could be.... whether it has been or not do you understand the flexibility of chassis componentry? I'm not saying it's one way or another.... I'm really thrown by the aesthetic similarities.... I can't find a reason for it.... from a designer's point of view.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>You can change the rear of a platform to come up with a short SUV, a minivan, a pickup, thats much easier than changing the engine compartment shape and engine orientation.<p>The thing here is <B>the new Grand Vitara does NOT have enough front overhang to accomodate a transverse V6 </B>like that found in the Theta platforms. <br>The Vue and Equinox have longer overhangs not just for styling, its because the engine is mounted transversely ahead of the front axle line and they also need extra clearance from the front bumper.<br>Suzuki already said they have 2 completely different SUVs, the Theta based XL-7 replacement and the Vitara replacement.<p>This is not a long wheel base, short wheelbase issue. <br>What you are talking about here is like trying to put a Subaru Impreza platform with its flat-4 engine into a BMW 3-series with a very short front overhang. <p>A Honda Odyssey/Pilot/MDX engine can fit into a Saturn Vue's engine compartment because they are all designed to accept a transversely mounted V6, and all of them share a common feature, overhangs long enough to accomodate a transverse V6. <p>Thats based on my observation... lets wait and see, more photos should appear soon.<p>Why are you so convinced that this "soon to be built in Japan" all-new Grand Vitara is Theta based. <p>I'll show you an example of 2 cars with aesthetic similarities but different proportions due to different engine orientation and of course size...<br>X-type<br><IMG SRC="http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atcars/impression/photo/mihori_xtype.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>XJ8<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autowire.net/2004jaguarxj.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The smaller Xtype has a long overhang because of its transverese engine.<p>Of course some people might see the FWD/AWD X-type as a shrunken RWD XJ... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Found this on the GM insiednews Forum...<br><B><I>Thanks for the note. A derivative of the Concept-X2 (debuted at the New<br>York Auto Show last month) will be manufactured in Japan and will be<br>uniquely Suzuki, not sharing any architecture with GM or GMDAT vehicles.<p>Ginger Golembiewski<br>American Suzuki - Auto PR<br>3251 E. Imperial Hwy<br>Brea, CA 92821</I></B><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 12:57 AM 4/6/2005</i>

jro4566
04-05-2005, 02:27 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can change the rear of a platform to come up with a short SUV, a minivan, a pickup, thats much easier than changing the engine compartment shape and engine orientation.<p>The thing here is <B>the new Grand Vitara does NOT have enough front overhang to accomodate a transverse V6 </B>like that found in the Theta platforms. <br>The Vue and Equinox have longer overhangs not just for styling, its because the engine is mounted transversely ahead of the front axle line and they also need extra clearance from the front bumper.<br>Suzuki already said they have 2 completely different SUVs, the Theta based XL-7 replacement and the Vitara replacement.<p>This is not a long wheel base, short wheelbase issue. <br>What you are talking about here is like trying to put a Subaru Impreza platform with its flat-4 engine into a BMW 3-series with a very short front overhang. <p>A Honda Odyssey/Pilot/MDX engine can fit into a Saturn Vue's engine compartment because they are all designed to accept a transversely mounted V6, and all of them share a common feature, overhangs long enough to accomodate a transverse V6. <p>Thats based on my observation... lets wait and see, more photos should appear soon.<p>Why are you so convinced that this "soon to be built in Japan" all-new Grand Vitara is Theta based. <p>I'll show you an example of 2 cars with aesthetic similarities but different proportions due to different engine orientation and of course size...<br>X-type<br><IMG SRC="http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atcars/impression/photo/mihori_xtype.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>XJ8<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autowire.net/2004jaguarxj.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The smaller Xtype has a long overhang because of its transverese engine.<p>Of course some people might see the FWD/AWD X-type as a shrunken RWD XJ... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Found this on the GM insiednews Forum...<br><B><I>Thanks for the note. A derivative of the Concept-X2 (debuted at the New<br>York Auto Show last month) will be manufactured in Japan and will be<br>uniquely Suzuki, not sharing any architecture with GM or GMDAT vehicles.<p>Ginger Golembiewski<br>American Suzuki - Auto PR<br>3251 E. Imperial Hwy<br>Brea, CA 92821</I></B><p><br><i>Modified by AM2 at 12:57 AM 4/6/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks for posting my e-mail from GMInsidenews...I wasn't able to post it here because my e-mail couldn't be accessed at work.

thedesigner
04-05-2005, 07:24 PM
Wow.... I know you must feel the urge to explain it to death but the proportions of the X-type and XJ are a bit different, especially cab to axle ratios and distances which as far as I'm concerned were nearly dead on with the Thetas and the X-2... partially contributing to my questioning of their relationship. I understand very well the engine compartment of the Theta, but as I earlier said Suzuki says a totally different engine was in the X-2. If a smaller engine is mounted towards the rear of a compartment then the radiator, fans, pumps, etc can also be mounted further back. Also a ton of overhang is based on bumpers and crumple zones which could easily have been revamped for different standards worldwide or because a modfication of compartment component arrangement. None of that is really out of the question.... even though I'm utterly wrong. But I'm glad you guys got the real info... So touche AM2... thankfully in the process of a likely disproval of my crutch and a kick-stand theory/qualm you satisfied my initial curiosity.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Why are you so convinced that this "soon to be built in Japan" all-new Grand Vitara is Theta based.</TD></TR></TABLE> I'm not so convinced.... I was merely proposing a possibility and seeing if the facts would surface.... it apparently worked. <br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Suzuki already said they have 2 completely different SUVs, the Theta based XL-7 replacement and the Vitara replacement.</TD></TR></TABLE> <br>Ah... knowing the X-7 will be a Theta platform wouldn't you now make the assumption its styling will be restricted to the Theta look that the X-2 so blatantly sports? I'm sure when we see the X-7 it will look a hell of a lot like a platform mate (overhang aside). How is it the SX3 looks nothing like a Theta (although it is one) and the X-2 looks like inbreeding?

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 07:33 PM
this is getting a bit odd - calm down please

jro4566
04-05-2005, 07:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ah... knowing the X-7 will be a Theta platform wouldn't you now make the assumption its styling will be restricted to the Theta look that the X-2 so blatantly sports? I'm sure when we see the X-7 it will look a hell of a lot like a platform mate (overhang aside). How is it the SX3 looks nothing like a Theta (although it is one) and the X-2 looks like inbreeding?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Just because two vehicles share similarities like a clamshell hood doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same platform. I'm willing to bet that most people wouldn't be able to guess that the Vue and Equinox are on the same platform just because of their hood.<p>Well, here's the next XL-7, shown as the Concept X.<br><IMG SRC="http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?t=12281&page=1&pp=20" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://media.suzuki.com/auto/photography/concept_vehicles/concept_x/views/conceptx_04.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Definitely doesn't look like an Equinox, Vue, nor S3X to me! Suzuki says the production version will only share 10% of its parts with its fellow Theta sisters.

thedesigner
04-06-2005, 11:54 PM
It's all gravy Naga... Most people are completely "design" illiterate (not you guys)... and comparing the styling characteristics of the Equinox to the Vue only serves to further my original point.... so why doesn't someone step up to the plate and address it... even a guess would be welcome. WHY does the upcoming Vitara look like a conglomeration of every Theta product to date? Is it to throw Suzuki into the mainstream fray by confusing the same consumers that couldn't link an Equinox to the Vue (for which I wouldn't blame them)? Thank God Suzuki is beginning the process of establishing some sort of styling individuality (XL-7 = Concept X = Very Swift like) even if it is made possible by platform sharing. Suzuki knows how to make a good car... it's too bad they don't have the pockets to make a name over here. If the Concept X does indeed reflect the styling of the next XL-7 then Suzuki might actually have a winning SUV combination. Bring the Swift over and lets talk about a sports car and maybe Suzuki could find a bizaare niche Isuzu once held in the 80's. Guys... read my posts carefully.... I'm not shouting my questions and theories from the rooftops here.... I just think the styling issue is inexcusable for a company who has less brand identity than Kia. What (marketplace/commercial/design) sense does it make that the Suzuki that's not on the Theta is nearly a dead ringer for a Theta? Could Suzuki be taking a swipe at GM (aka. biting the hand that feeds them)?

AM2
04-07-2005, 12:46 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It's all gravy Naga... Most people are completely "design" illiterate (not you guys)... and comparing the styling characteristics of the Equinox to the Vue only serves to further my original point.... so why doesn't someone step up to the plate and address it... even a guess would be welcome. WHY does the upcoming Vitara look like a conglomeration of every Theta product to date? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The Equinox and Vue have similar front proportions due to the vital points of the inner structure and platfrom(unlike the X2), the Equinox is basically a LWB Vue with a different skin.<p>Judgement based on styling characteristics/details?<br>Toyota's Fortuner SUV....<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autoindex.org/images/cars/3941/4474/norm__Fortuner_2005_Thailand.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>....and the previous Lexus RX300<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autoindex.org/images/cars/175/248/norm_1_Japan.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I guess you would think they are based on the same platform because of the similar looking c-pillars and door handles....based on your theory. But they are not.<p>Styling details don't really have anything to do with whats under the skin.<br>The bigger issue is if the body can fit over the platform.<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 3:52 PM 4/7/2005</i>

thedesigner
04-07-2005, 01:55 PM
AM2... I'll admit I'm getting a little frustrated with your (semi) condescending responses.... I'm sure you're not being malicious but pay attention please. I'm proposing styling conundrums... I have never insisted that I was 100% sure of the Suzuki vehicle's underpinnings until the Suzuki rep's quote was posted. So listen closely so this doesn't escalate into one of those silly message board shouting matches. In my opinion to the untrained eye the Saturn Vue and the Equinox look very dissimilar. GM did a fantastic job of differentiating these 2 products.... unlike the Equinox and Torrent. Based on the styling cues of the Vue, Equinox and Torrent it looks like the pen was taken out of the Suzuki designers' hands and given to a GM design committee who said, "Here you go, your very own Theta rip off" If you can deny the SUPERFICIAL resemblance of the X-2 to the Thetas then I think you might want to stop posting on any of these boards. I say it in that tone because I'm sure you can appreciate the actual aesthetic parallels that are quite obvious.... I'm still convinced you haven't read my posts more than once because your responses are completely nonsensical in the regard they are answers to questions I never proposed. Please read my posts more carefully.... By the way I am utterly educated in vehicle design, platform sharing and when I so desire, inside industry news so please don't assume I'm an automotive Philistine. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Equinox and Vue have similar front proportions due to the vital points of the inner structure and platfrom (unlike the X2), the Equinox is basically a LWB Vue with a different skin.</TD></TR></TABLE> Thank-you for pointing out something I knew 3 years ago....<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Judgement based on styling characteristics/details?...<br>I guess you would think they are based on the same platform because of the similar looking c-pillars and door handles....based on your theory. <br>Styling details don't really have anything to do with whats under the skin.<br>The bigger issue is if the body can fit over the platform.<br></i></TD></TR></TABLE> I don't think I can make myself any clearer in my posts. Initially it was a curiosity to see if the X-2 was to be Theta based... at first no one was sure... then it was cleared up... then I proceeded to question why, STYLISTICALLY Suzuki felt compelled to make the X-2 look like a Theta ringer..... for the reasons: The establishing of a Corporate Look, the Concept X the actual Theta looking like a Suzuki, who designed the X-2 (Suzuki or GM Committee)? That near production pic of the Vitara (X-2) is sickeningly Theta. That doesn't mean I think it's Theta... what else do I have to say to make that clear for the third time? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> Good sir.... I am not <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/sleep.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/sheep.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br><i>Modified by thedesigner at 2:01 PM 4/7/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by thedesigner at 2:02 PM 4/7/2005</i>

Santeno
04-07-2005, 02:20 PM
Alright you two. I'm pretty sure we all have a a fairly clear picture of what this vehicle is all about by now. Thanks for the informative and passionate responses. Now let's get on with the discussion and lay-off each other a bit. Thanks.

Lakeshow23
04-10-2005, 05:40 PM
That's a nice looking Suzuki. But then again, I think they are on a roll with their styling. The Verona looks nice, the Grand Vitara looks nice, the Aerio kinda looks nice... the new SUV is just another good looker.

AM2
05-16-2005, 01:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think they may have modified a whole lot of GM chassis components. I still think a ton of mounting points are shared.... we shall see.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Here it is... and its not a Theta.<br><IMG SRC="http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/mechanism/img/maintitle.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 11:08 AM 5/17/2005</i>

JBlair
05-16-2005, 10:40 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here it is... and its not a Theta.<br><IMG SRC="http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/mechanism/img/maintitle.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The concept X (The one that had the huge shark headlamps) is the Theta.

thedesigner
05-20-2005, 02:31 PM
Is there a good reason my posts keep disappearing? administrators?

JBlair
05-20-2005, 05:30 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there a good reason my posts keep disappearing? administrators?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Because they're disrespectful to other members.

Santeno
05-20-2005, 07:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>thedesigner</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there a good reason my posts keep disappearing? administrators?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Read your PM's. However since you preffer it on the board, you have been warned on several occassions to be civil. the next aggressive post we have to delete from you, will cause your account to be terminated. is that clear enough now.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 10:50 PM 5/20/2005</i>

thedesigner
05-22-2005, 02:44 PM
I'm having a curious time attempting to discuss this further with an administrator. What are "PM"s... why have I not seen any clear indication of a warning.... and how may I retrieve such warnings if they indeed have been issued. I consider there to be more than one way of being disrespectful and I certainly feel as though I have been privy to such posts... though certainly mine could/should be toned down. I enjoy nothing more than a healthy/relevant dialogue. It's slightly trying when a topic so exhaustively discussed can still be thrown in my face. I do not appreciate the lack of integrity or respect in a continuing sequence of a particular member's responses. So how is this to be aired out? I shall do my very best to not allow frustration to impede my better judgement. Feel free to delete this as you see fit and/or contact me through more appropriate channels. <br>respectfully yours- thedesigner<br>ps. sorry to disturb the forum.... back to the escudo<br>

Santeno
05-22-2005, 05:24 PM
designer. if you are not getting personal messages is most likely because you are using some type of pop-up blocker. allow CSS pop-ups (which are only PM's, not advertising) to appear and you will see all messages sent to you.