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View Full Version : Saturn Aura aka L-Series Replacement


C6Dude
01-06-2005, 03:08 PM
<IMG SRC="http://img133.exs.cx/img133/6671/saturnlseriesrepl0fa.png" BORDER="0"><p>Sent to me by Saturn.com as a "first look" at it's "new dynamic sports sedan concept vehicle"<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/images/smilies/sponge.gif" BORDER="0">

The Water Is Poison
01-06-2005, 03:24 PM
Those headlights look awfully familiar <p><IMG SRC="http://www.desktopmachine.com/pics/Opel_astra-concept-63-1024.jpg" BORDER="0">

JBlair
01-06-2005, 03:33 PM
I believe, after seeing these pics, that the Saturn mid-size sedan will indeed be the facelifted Opel Vectra. There are some obvious changes (such as the grille and wheel wells), but it looks to me like the wishes of saturn fans (good looking saturns for once) are coming true.

Charger
01-06-2005, 03:35 PM
Ive been saying for a long time that Opel should come to America and finally they are doing it, as a Saturn. Finally a good move from GM

Ascariss
01-06-2005, 03:38 PM
Anyone in europe care to send me some opel parts? Like badges and stering wheel, and so on, oh plus an engine or 2, say the 2.0 or the 2.0 diesel. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>This car looks great, from the small preview can't wait for it.

knicks125
01-06-2005, 05:07 PM
i'll borrow comments from my other post on the Sky <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">looks good so far<p>waiting for the full unveiling <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

Charger
01-06-2005, 05:45 PM
This is the Aura<br><A HREF="http://www.saturn.com/mysaturn/headlines/reveal.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.saturn.com/mysaturn....html</A><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Charger at 9:45 PM 1/6/2005</i>

Rugbyplaya91
01-06-2005, 08:29 PM
lexus lights?

Dan J.
01-06-2005, 10:42 PM
there are photos up at autodeadline.com of the aura.

coolbluelb
01-06-2005, 11:00 PM
<IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010645849_pv.jpg" BORDER="0">

JBlair
01-06-2005, 11:03 PM
Say hello to the beautiful Saturn version of the next-generation (or facelifted) Opel Vectra. The interior (pics coming soon) is gorgeous, and the overall vehicle is going to be quite a good thing for the brand.

Ascariss
01-06-2005, 11:34 PM
<IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura01.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura02.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura03.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura04.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura05.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura06.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura07.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>GM press

Tudor
01-07-2005, 12:17 AM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> Looks way better than anything Saturn has put out up to this point.

taskbearer
01-07-2005, 12:22 AM
OMG <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> ASTRAlizing the Opel Vectra looks so successful. This should give it a strong edge on the new passat and peugeot 407. Its hard to believe that the designers could turn the boxy looking vectra into something so dynamic.<p>And for saturn,.........this car is going to shoot all the bad memories of saturns out of the roof. I should say the rear lights looks like pontiac G6's, but this Aura is much more mature looking than the G6 both inside and out. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0">

RetroJapan
01-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Wow... Even as an import fan, I would DEFINITELY consider this Saturn if I were in the market... It looks fantastic...<p>Finally, some good news from GM!

Volkswagen AG
01-07-2005, 12:38 AM
Congrats Saturn. This car looks much better than its American epsilion brothers (probably because its an Opel). The interior is light-years ahead of what GM has put out before. Good job, Mr. Lutz.

Gian86
01-07-2005, 01:58 AM
This concept from saturn looks really good which i hope it could look the same for production version.

The Water Is Poison
01-07-2005, 03:33 AM
wOW,.. THIS LOOKS BETER THAN THE SKY

summersun54
01-07-2005, 04:50 AM
It looks great. Way better than the current vectra. As someone has already said the injection of astra style looks great.. When is this Saturn due out? i do hope they keep the car's details particularly the interior for production. Obviously the wheels and exhaust will be ditched for smaller units.. It is very Chrysler 300ish no??<br>Best looking saloon from GM by a mile<br>

Top Secret
01-07-2005, 05:35 AM
Wow, Saturn are certainly going to hit a home run when these cars come out - they look fantastic!

syclone
01-07-2005, 05:37 AM
god the headlights are a joke. the are way too huge and make the front of the car look like some sort of cartoon. hopefully they will tone them down for production. the interior looks great but i'm sure it will lose some of the cooler touches like the rings around the gauges. shame that from the side it looks exactly like the current vectra, but i guess that tends to be the case with facelifts.

Ascariss
01-07-2005, 10:30 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">god the headlights are a joke. the are way too huge and make the front of the car look like some sort of cartoon. hopefully they will tone them down for production. the interior looks great but i'm sure it will lose some of the cooler touches like the rings around the gauges. shame that from the side it looks exactly like the current vectra, but i guess that tends to be the case with facelifts.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not vectra, that car has a malibu like glasshouse:<p><A HREF="http://www.autotudos.hu/kep_02_04_Opel_Vectra_1_nagy.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autotudos.hu/kep_02...y.jpg</A><p>This car borrows heavily from the Astra family design, IE, likghts grill, and rear bumper plus lights.

Santeno
01-07-2005, 10:40 AM
So expect the bumper caps (especially the rear), the fender flares, the wheel/tire combos, and the dasboard neon lights to be toned down (hopefully not dumbed down) or to disappear in the production version. Regardless of that, the end result should prove to be one hell of an appealing Opel... Oops, sorry, Saturn...

CalinG7
01-07-2005, 11:43 AM
That looks fantastic!! Wow!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> I really gave up hope that GM was capable of a car like that (though it's still just a concept so I'll reserve final judgement). <p>HOWEVER, for those of you saying this is the Opel Vectra, it is not. It uses Opel styling cues, like the lights and others, but the version of the Epsilon platform it is using is very different. The Vectra sits on a 106 inch wheelbase, along with the Chevy Malibu, while this looks like it shares the Pontiac G6/Malibu Maxx 112 inch wheelbase. Unless Opel is stretching the Vectra's wheelbase by 6 inches for a mere facelift, these two cars will have relatively little in common, other than similar styling cues. <p>Think of it as the Euro Accord and the US Accord. Same company, same basic components, but no one would confuse the two as the same car.

Banker
01-07-2005, 12:30 PM
It is hard to believe that this is from the same company who produced the plain jane Malibu and the underwhelming G6. While those are both good cars they are not great. This appears to be a winner all around. I love the powertrain... a 3.6L DOHC V6 with a six speed automatic. This will put Saturn on the map. I love it. I may trade my Mazda6 in for this in a year or so.

Player4
01-07-2005, 01:27 PM
Its hard to believe that this is a Saturn, but i gotta say this looks really good and hopefully it will give Saturn a new image. If only they would just make the rims smaller for production...

Charger
01-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Saturns on a comeback. The G6 should have looked this sporty

Krypton
01-07-2005, 01:46 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bowdown.gif" BORDER="0"> this is amazing, wish they had made it a opel. The name saturn isnt exactly synonomous with good looking cars<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by SLR at 5:15 PM 1/7/2005</i>

JBlair
01-07-2005, 02:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CalinG7</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HOWEVER, for those of you saying this is the Opel Vectra, it is not. It uses Opel styling cues, like the lights and others, but the version of the Epsilon platform it is using is very different. The Vectra sits on a 106 inch wheelbase, along with the Chevy Malibu, while this looks like it shares the Pontiac G6/Malibu Maxx 112 inch wheelbase. Unless Opel is stretching the Vectra's wheelbase by 6 inches for a mere facelift, these two cars will have relatively little in common, other than similar styling cues. <p>Think of it as the Euro Accord and the US Accord. Same company, same basic components, but no one would confuse the two as the same car. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is the next Vectra, both in substance and form. While the details of the design may change between the continents (european customers won't put up with some of the stuff americans will), this is essentially the next Vectra. The wheelbase issue is irrelevant, because this is undoubtedly based upon the Signum version of the Epsilon platform. If you will notice in the specs of the Signum, it is exactly 6 inches longer than the equivalent Vectra. Same goes for the Malibu/Malibu Maxx, the latter of which is 6 inches longer than the regular sedan and also provides the platform for the G6. The Vectra is a 4 year old car, and the Signum/G6/MalibuMaxxx version of Epsilon is the most recent and would make the most sense to be used for the Vectra replacement. Then there is the matter of engines. No Epsilon currently uses any of GM's high-feature V6s as the Aura (and thereby the production version will), and GM is not one to take costs lightly in vehicle development. Which brings me to my last point, which is that since Saturn was in desperate need of a new mid-size sedan for the 2007 model year, and the fact that the Vectra will be 6 years old by the introduction of the Saturn, it makes sense for GM to amortize the costs of developing the new Vectra by also selling a version of it in the United States as a Saturn. Like it or not folks, what you see here is the next Vectra.

Naga Royal Guard
01-07-2005, 03:35 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(hopefully not dumbed down) </TD></TR></TABLE><p>just might, car still promises to be great tho

SV
01-07-2005, 03:47 PM
even if it is toned down alot, this car will still be great. the interior looks like it will be good-quality even in more production-spec (this is, hands down, the best interior i have ever seen from an american manufacturer) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> the only bad thing is that it makes the malibu (which is one of my favorite american sedans) and the G6 look terrible in comparison.

CalinG7
01-07-2005, 04:23 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The wheelbase issue is irrelevant, because this is undoubtedly based upon the Signum version of the Epsilon platform. Like it or not folks, what you see here is the next Vectra.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I like it, I like it, don't get me wrong. The car is beautiful and I wouldn't have any problems if this became the Vectra. You could be completely right and me completely wrong, but there are just a few issues that don't make it a slam-dunk case. <p>I don't want to make too many assumptions before they release official specs on this concept, but from the looks of it, it initially seems too big to be a Vectra replacement. It's American sized, BMW 5-Series/Mercedes E-class sized, whereas these types of cars in Europe, the Vectra/Mondeo/Passat are more (though not exclussively) 3-series/C-class/A4 competitors. The wheelbase, as you pointed out, is as big as the Signums, but isn't that car positioned a bit above the Vectra? And since you're assuming that the next Vectra will automatically go to this platform because it's newer, does that mean that the Saab 9-3 refresh will grow this much in size too, because it shares platforms and this version is newer? <p>This car class has been growing in size, the Mazda 6 and Passat being examples, but I didn't think Europeans would move up this much, since they've always derrided Americans for their tastes in big cars. Again, you could be right, this could be the next Vectra, but I won't really be convinced untill they anounce it officially. There are currently three versions/sizes of the Epsilon platform: small (9-3), medium (Vectra/Malibu), and large (Signum/Maxx/G6/and now Aura). Who says there can't be a different version again for the next Vectra? Guess we'll see. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/driver.gif" BORDER="0">

CarMattZu777
01-07-2005, 04:32 PM
I love it!!! Finally an American sedan I can feel proud representing our country! Well, its not really American, but thats beyond the point. Saturn better make this the production version exactly the same. I would hate to see this beautiful car show up on lots with nasty GM grey plastic and odd-patterned cloths. Please leave it like this GM!!! :)

piokor
01-07-2005, 06:14 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Good job GM, this might actaully allow Saturn to move to a more upscale place in the industry. Also, it makes me feel good that American companies are finally developing good sedans. Ford has the Fusion, GM has this and DCX has the 300 (the Charger is questionable). This is probably gonna cost a few thousand more than the Mailbu and the G6, any word when it comes out?

LEXUS FAN!
01-07-2005, 06:51 PM
saturn's on a role...now if they could only change their name..."saturn?"

StephenKHone
01-07-2005, 07:13 PM
Well obviously that is about to change! Which means in a few years the Name Saturn will be synonymous with very desirable cars. So I say keep the name.

_PiCASSO_
01-07-2005, 07:34 PM
I like it! I'm only worried that the production vehicles here in North America are going to lack a proper (read: manual) transmission. And as I've been always saying, no stick... no sale. So GM, if you are listening, please have hot looking cars like this feature a manual tranny. Also, try to keep all the chasis dynamics from the European counterparts, and allow Saturn to be GM excitement division.

_PiCASSO_
01-07-2005, 08:11 PM
A few other pics from GM's Saturn page <A HREF="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/showroom/future_vehicles/aura.jsp?nav=720" TARGET="_blank">http://www.saturn.com/saturn/s...v=720</A><p><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura1_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura2_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura3_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura4_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura5_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.saturn.com/saturn/images/gallery/aura6_800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"> <p>

kevinb120
01-07-2005, 09:09 PM
Obviously the exhaust and the wheels go bye-bye. Its nice, but it looks a lot like a cobalt to me.

taskbearer
01-08-2005, 01:57 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>kevinb120</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Obviously the exhaust and the wheels go bye-bye. Its nice, but it looks a lot like a cobalt to me.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>IMO a more mature looking one. Hey do tou guys sense another extention of GMs great badge engineering? Hello Opel and Vauxhaul, say hello to your knew clone sister. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

gone with the wind
01-08-2005, 05:17 AM
If this is how the new Opel Vectra will look like it will be a <b>"BIG" "BIG"</b> improvement over the current one.<p>wfg, Hans.

Top Secret
01-08-2005, 05:31 AM
What? On some pictures those wheels look like chrome wheels, but on others they don't. Can someone please clear that up for me?

sono81
01-08-2005, 08:38 AM
This is NOT the new Vectar! It´s a sedan version based on the New Astra.

SV
01-08-2005, 09:01 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sono81</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is NOT the new Vectar! It´s a sedan version based on the New Astra. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>it's not based on the new astra either. the aura is a midsized (D-segment) car based on the epsilon platform, which also underpins the current vectra. i don't think we will see this rebadged as an opel in any way, since it's too early to see a concept or a production version of the next-generation vectra. it's just been designed with styling cues taken from the new astra.

sono81
01-08-2005, 09:15 AM
This car will be available here in Brazil as our Vectra replacement, that still is the B version. Sources confirm that this car is not based on the current Vectra platform, but in a modified previous Astra one. This will be called here "Chevrolet Astra Sedan", altough it won´t look too close to the Opel Astra. I may be wrong, but I really want to believe this is the car we will be having next semester!

JBlair
01-08-2005, 10:01 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>it's not based on the new astra either. the aura is a midsized (D-segment) car based on the epsilon platform, which also underpins the current vectra. i don't think we will see this rebadged as an opel in any way, since it's too early to see a concept or a production version of the next-generation vectra. it's just been designed with styling cues taken from the new astra.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Except that when this debuts as a Saturn, and if it debuted as the new Vectra, the current Vectra would most likely be 6-7 years old. (time for a replacement)

SV
01-08-2005, 11:04 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Except that when this debuts as a Saturn, and if it debuted as the new Vectra, the current Vectra would most likely be 6-7 years old. (time for a replacement)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>yeah, i suppose you're right about that. but sono81, what is the source that says this is based on the old astra platform? in the post before you said it was based on the new astra (they're basically the same platform anyway though <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> ). either way, i don't see the logic in that; this is an L-series (midsize) replacement. if it was an ION replacement, which it isnt, than an astra platform would make sense. but, as a midsize car, it would be most logical to base it on the vectra's (epsilon) platform. i don't think the astra platform can even be modified to fit under a car of this size.

nismo
01-08-2005, 11:27 AM
At first view it may seem like that, but this car is way bigger. This is an American Mid size car so its between the size of like a 3er and 5er. There is no way this is an Astra... it has a 3.6L V6.

Ascariss
01-08-2005, 12:10 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sono81</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is NOT the new Vectar! It´s a sedan version based on the New Astra. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Too big for astra sedan, way too big, the car only uses astra styling.

sono81
01-08-2005, 01:14 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Too big for astra sedan, way too big, the car only uses astra styling.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry, I may be wrong. I got the info from <A HREF="http://www.bcws.com.br" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bcws.com.br</A>. Its all in portuguese. When I first said it was Astra based, i meant the styling. I tought this was the car that we here in Brazil have always heard of since this new Astra was released. The rumors says that we are going to have an exclusive sedan version of the Astra, that in fact isnt the new Astra, but a remake of the current one we have here. Sorry, I may be wrong, but I really want to believe this is the car taht is going to replace our B vectra and compete with the Corolla, Civic, Megane and others...

Ascariss
01-08-2005, 01:42 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sono81</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Sorry, I may be wrong. I got the info from <A HREF="http://www.bcws.com.br" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bcws.com.br</A>. Its all in portuguese. When I first said it was Astra based, i meant the styling. I tought this was the car that we here in Brazil have always heard of since this new Astra was released. The rumors says that we are going to have an exclusive sedan version of the Astra, that in fact isnt the new Astra, but a remake of the current one we have here. Sorry, I may be wrong, but I really want to believe this is the car taht is going to replace our B vectra and compete with the Corolla, Civic, Megane and others...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Ok. I am no expert on the south american car market, but what does youir current vectra look like? Is it the previous Euro one? If so, your new one might be the current gen, but I could be wrong.

_PiCASSO_
01-08-2005, 01:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Ok. I am no expert on the south american car market, but what does youir current vectra look like? Is it the previous Euro one? If so, your new one might be the current gen, but I could be wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I've done a little research and here's what I've found:<p>These images are from GM Brasil:<p>Chevrolet Astra: <A HREF="http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/astra/astra2005.html" TARGET="_blank">http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/....html</A><p><IMG SRC="http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/astra/astra2005/wallScreenFiles/astra_01-800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/astra/astra2005/wallScreenFiles/astra_02-800x600.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Chevrolet Vectra: <A HREF="http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/vectra.html" TARGET="_blank">http://chev2.chevrolet.com.br/veiculos/vectra.html</A><p><IMG SRC="http://server3.uploadit.org/files/tribus-ChevVectra.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The Astra appears to be the previous European generation, and the same goes for the Vectra (or our current Saturn L).<br>

sono81
01-08-2005, 03:21 PM
Yeah, That´s it. But our economy isn´t going really well, so GM Brasil will not bring the current euro Vectra here. Instead they will bring what I believe is this saturn to replace the Vectra here, the same way i think this saturn will replace the current L-series. Now it makes more sense. I guess the confusion started because of me, because I heard somewhere taht this car was going to be called "Astra" in here, but I don´t really know.

AXLE
01-09-2005, 12:40 AM
As much as I hate all new GM products, I have to say the European design team has some talent. Nice fresh design with relatively short overhangs and long passenger compartment, this one is a winner in the styling department unlike the 'new' Malibu <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/sleep.gif" BORDER="0">

taskbearer
01-09-2005, 01:01 AM
Yes GM's european design team are more talented than the americans, Look at all recent Saab and Opel concepts compared to concepts from their US counterparts. the GM sequel and GMC graphite are just an indication how unimagintive the US design team is. To reinforce this, GM abandonned the bland saturn curve( supposed to carry the new saturn face) for the Vauxhual lightning as a basis for the soltice based roadster.

nstreet16
01-09-2005, 05:54 AM
the headlights kinda look a lil bit tooooo big for the car itself...heck it looks too big anywayz.

MrMGMan
01-09-2005, 06:37 AM
There's a lot of Vauxhall/Opel DNA in this car. The proportions (both exterior and interior) look suspiciously close to the Vectra, which makes me think that it is indeed a recipient of the Vectra's basic platform.<p>Design wise though, it sports more of the Astra's DNA than it does the Vectra's. The front and rear lights are very, very similar to those seen on the Astra sport hatch, and the side surfacing and detailing are also very similar.<p>Obviously the production model will look considerably less glitzy, but it is still a positive move for GM's least well regarded American subsidiary.

myredhotcar
01-09-2005, 08:45 AM
Am i the only one who sees some Audi A4 in this car? The shoulder line, the fenders and backlight, etc look familiar. The interior is okay, but still not in the top league.

StephenKHone
01-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Sorry to inform you but the Aura was done Stateside! Most of GM's styling staff work all around the world at various times, so to say that the Euro styling team are more talented is not strictly true. If you look at concepts like the Cadillac 16, etc can your really state with a straight face that the European team is better? Show me all the great European concepts. Also the European Opel/Vauxhall range whilst attractive is not exactly earth shattering imho. The Aura is perhaps what could be a decent looking Opel. If they use it however, won't that actually be a US led design? Anyhow, my point is, is that GM's various styling studio's exchange ideas all the time. The lightning was a very good design, so I don't see it as an example of the North American stylists conceding that they can't design a decent roadster. I see it more as them Acknowledging a great design and adopting it rather than needlessly trying to re-invent the wheel. This Saves money btw.

JBlair
01-10-2005, 12:25 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>StephenKHone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to inform you but the Aura was done Stateside! Most of GM's styling staff work all around the world at various times, so to say that the Euro styling team are more talented is not strictly true. If you look at concepts like the Cadillac 16, etc can your really state with a straight face that the European team is better? Show me all the great European concepts. Also the European Opel/Vauxhall range whilst attractive is not exactly earth shattering imho. The Aura is perhaps what could be a decent looking Opel. If they use it however, won't that actually be a US led design? Anyhow, my point is, is that GM's various styling studio's exchange ideas all the time. The lightning was a very good design, so I don't see it as an example of the North American stylists conceding that they can't design a decent roadster. I see it more as them Acknowledging a great design and adopting it rather than needlessly trying to re-invent the wheel. This Saves money btw.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The entire new saturn look was compiled in the US at GM's Warren Michigan Design Center. This includes deciding what direction the brand's design will take, and ensuring that all new Saturn designs share a similar face. However, the Aura was designed wholly by GM's design center in Russelsheim Germany. This is the same place that handles almost all Opel/Vauxhall designs, and probably had a hand in designing and tweaking parts of current American cars. Yes, there are americans in that design studio, but they are more likely to be influenced by current european vehicle design trends than American ones. <p>Due to the fact that the article containing the information is from TCC, I can only link you to it. The afforementioned information is at the top of the section entitled 'reading Saturn's aura'<p><A HREF="http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7925&sid=175&n=156" TARGET="_blank">http://www.thecarconnection.co...n=156</A>

_PiCASSO_
01-10-2005, 04:46 AM
I've noticed a very close resembles of this Saturn Aura concept to the Chevrolet Cobalt in the headlight treatment:<p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss/aura06.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.chevrolet.com/i/gallery/cobalt/popup_ext_gallery03.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><A HREF="http://www.chevrolet.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.chevrolet.com</A><br>

BuffaloNY
01-10-2005, 07:35 AM
The Aura is Saturn's rebirth and lurches Saturn out of 1986. <p>Hey - finally, they get rid of the Battlestar Galactica font for "saturn" that they etched on every bumper cover. <p>Now let's change the color scheme at the dealerships to yellow and grey (to match a certain other marque).

syclone
01-10-2005, 11:01 AM
leave it to gm to take the vectra and ruin it for the us market. looks like a citroen c5 on speed. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0">

JBlair
01-10-2005, 11:08 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">leave it to gm to take the vectra and ruin it for the us market. looks like a citroen c5 on speed. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>This actually has nothing to do with the current Vectra. It only shares its platform, thats it.

sono81
01-10-2005, 01:53 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>_PiCASSO_</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've noticed a very close resembles of this Saturn Aura concept to the Chevrolet Cobalt in the headlight treatment:<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is the Cobalt based on the Astra Platform?

Krypton
01-10-2005, 01:58 PM
The cobolt is abased on the ion platform and i dont think its the same one as the astra

Rugbyplaya91
01-10-2005, 04:16 PM
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOtttt t<p>yum.. haha<p>looks like g6

StephenKHone
01-11-2005, 12:00 AM
Thanks I hadn't seen that article and was going on what Welburn said and assumed (wrongly) he was talking about the US Styling arm. It is still a great piece of work no matter who is responsible, and is so far removed from the inept Ion that Saturn should do very well with this car, and the Sky. Hopefully they won't water either of them down, before they get to the showroom. They look awesome as they are now. There was a time in the early seventies, and into the very early eighties, that Opel were absolutely the best stylists of main stream cars in Europe. Then for a while they wandered aimlessly churning out pretty mundane stuff. Fortunately It now looks like they have found their way once again.

gcodori
01-11-2005, 12:57 PM
I would take a close look if they bring over the wagon version as well. Take a look-<br><A HREF="http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/astrasw_launch/gallery/800x600/exterior_4.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.europe.opel.com/bra...4.jpg</A>

Ascariss
01-11-2005, 02:59 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gcodori</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would take a close look if they bring over the wagon version as well. Take a look-<br><A HREF="http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/astrasw_launch/gallery/800x600/exterior_4.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://www.europe.opel.com/bra...4.jpg</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Different segment and model, the Astra would be a twin to the Cobalt if they shared a platfrom, which they do not. The Vectra wagon would be the one to compare this with. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>StephenKHone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hopefully they won't water either of them down, before they get to the showroom. They look awesome as they are now. There was a time in the early seventies, and into the very early eighties, that Opel were absolutely the best stylists of main stream cars in Europe. Then for a while they wandered aimlessly churning out pretty mundane stuff. Fortunately It now looks like they have found their way once again.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The Sky is already production but just goes on sale a bit later than normally like the Solstice. Aura, remove the fancy bits like large rims and aggressive front bumper and jack it up a bit and you got the production version.

hokman
01-12-2005, 06:25 AM
Who says cobalt isn't astra, everyone knows cobalt is the american version of astra. Look carefully and you can see that the cobalt is a astra with a boot which looks very ugly because they didn't even bother to revise the C-pillar to match the boot, unlike the new Bora (still has a unmatching round front. Otherwise I won't be buying cobalt coupe (NA exclusive, while europe gets the sports hatch). Anyways, it's the astra coupe that won btcc 4 years in a row (new record), probably due to not much competition (crappy civic type R's ). And here you can get the 2.2 standard whereas is europe it's top of the line. <p>Vectra is the best family car (more comfort than mondeo), but has been complained as not the best handling (why do u need best handling in a family hatch, i rather have the vectra's refinement of a benz e class). Vectra has also been complained of plain styling. But I don't think this Aura is significantly better looking than vectra, the astra lights on this car looks odd, although the side profile is the best saloon design i've seen lately. smooth and beautiful. But the vectra's angular rear looks more modern and cool. That saturn or whatever red badge, made the car look 10 times cheaper. Can someone chop on a opel or vauxhall front? Anyways the front with that huge lamps with orange indicator looks too odd. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> current vectra has a better front if not the side.

gcodori
01-12-2005, 04:56 PM
My post regarding the Opel astra wagon was more towards perhaps the redesigned vectra also being rebadged in wagon version.<p>Also, any word on whether GM would gamble on bringing the 2.0 or 3.0 turbo diesels to the US? I'll be in the market for a diesel in 1-2 years, and my only choice is the passat (which will be slightly more expensive compared to others in it's class).<p>Cmon GM, give us a diesel already! Who cares how much the oil industry spends on the auto industry...

Naga Royal Guard
01-12-2005, 04:57 PM
this is the final departure of plastic body panels for Saturn?

Ascariss
01-12-2005, 05:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hokman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who says cobalt isn't astra, everyone knows cobalt is the american version of astra. Look carefully and you can see that the cobalt is a astra with a boot which looks very ugly because they didn't even bother to revise the C-pillar to match the boot, unlike the new Bora (still has a unmatching round front. Otherwise I won't be buying cobalt coupe (NA exclusive, while europe gets the sports hatch). Anyways, it's the astra coupe that won btcc 4 years in a row (new record), probably due to not much competition (crappy civic type R's ). And here you can get the 2.2 standard whereas is europe it's top of the line. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The Astra G rides on a different platform than the Cobalt and only some design cues are similar but the cars are not the shame. The Astra is a hatch, the cobalt is a sedan. Yes there was an astra coupe, but the cobalt coupe and the astra coupe don't share much either if maybe some minor componets and engines.

hakkinen
01-12-2005, 05:32 PM
Ascariss the Cobalt is a previous generation Astra, which was produced in sedan version as well. So not only they share some componets but they are actually the same car. I just don't know if they share the same engines, as those that are used in Europe may be small for US. Interior is different as far as i remember.<p>@ndreas

hokman
01-12-2005, 05:42 PM
MAN! THis sucks, the cobalt lost the DDC (dynamic drive control) already, and now you're saying it's actually the 1998 astra? what are you talking about? This is a new car!<p>Like someone said before, the new astra uses the chassis of the previous one, but upped the quality, sound deadening, maybe better suspension and added DCC. Apparently the cobalt is the NA version of new astra because all the doors and the same, the headlamps are almost same. The dimensions are the same, it's just that NA prefers saloon of it gets the boot, just like china getting the BORA before getting a golf.

JBlair
01-12-2005, 06:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hokman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MAN! THis sucks, the cobalt lost the DDC (dynamic drive control) already, and now you're saying it's actually the 1998 astra? what are you talking about? This is a new car!<p>Like someone said before, the new astra uses the chassis of the previous one, but upped the quality, sound deadening, maybe better suspension and added DCC. Apparently the cobalt is the NA version of new astra because all the doors and the same, the headlamps are almost same. The dimensions are the same, it's just that NA prefers saloon of it gets the boot, just like china getting the BORA before getting a golf.</TD></TR></TABLE><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hakkinen</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ascariss the Cobalt is a previous generation Astra, which was produced in sedan version as well. So not only they share some componets but they are actually the same car. I just don't know if they share the same engines, as those that are used in Europe may be small for US. Interior is different as far as i remember.<p>@ndreas</TD></TR></TABLE><p>These ARE NOT the same cars. The Cobalt rides on the new North American Delta Platform that also underpins the Saturn Ion, Chevy HHR, and will underpin several next-generation GM small cars. The Astra rides on a re-worked version of the last-generation Astra platform, which DOES NOT share any components with the Delta platform. Any similarity in looks is an accident and does not mean that they are the same car. (because the new Ford Fusion and Mondeo share similar door frames, does that automatically mean they are the same car?).

Ascariss
01-12-2005, 06:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hakkinen</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ascariss the Cobalt is a previous generation Astra, which was produced in sedan version as well. So not only they share some componets but they are actually the same car. I just don't know if they share the same engines, as those that are used in Europe may be small for US. Interior is different as far as i remember.<p>@ndreas</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Uhm no its not. The cobalt rides on the delta platform, the Astra G I think is a on revised euro opel platform.<p>Here are some pics, compare closely, the astra and cobalt actually very different only look alike:<p>astra sedan and coupe:<br><IMG SRC="http://img88.exs.cx/img88/213/astrasedanside4uu.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img88.exs.cx/img88/7586/astracpside8mt.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>cobalt sedan and coupe:<br><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_07.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_06.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The astra G info:<br>wheelbase: 2606 mm<br>length sedan: 4252 mm<p>cobalt info:<br>Wheelbase (in / mm): 103.3 / 2624 <br>Overall length (in / mm): 180.5 / 4584 <p>Rather different huh? The cobalt and astra G are not the same cars.<br>

_PiCASSO_
01-12-2005, 07:00 PM
If GM only shaved off a few inches from the front ends (things would of looked more proportional):<p><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_07.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://server3.uploadit.org/files/tribus-cobalt1.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_06.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://server3.uploadit.org/files/tribus-cobalt2.jpg" BORDER="0">

hokman
01-12-2005, 11:29 PM
The new astra is the best small car, comparable to the new focus, and you're saying it's not based on the new DELTA platform? The Delta platform is definately better than the previous astra. Does that mean the cobalt has even better road manners and refinement than the new astra? <br>The pics you posted are of the old astra.<br>I don't think so...<br><IMG SRC="http://www.opel.de/res/img/content/shop/cars/astragtc/gallery/photo/pic01_800.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_01.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>What I don't get is why USA version of cars is so much more uglier and cheaper... They must have a reason though... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by hokman at 10:36 PM 1/12/2005</i>

hokman
01-12-2005, 11:50 PM
Here's to show you that both cars are the same (check out the doors and mirrors and body profile), it's just the bottom one that is stripped of every detail and using cheap gold badges and being cost cut to the max. It's unbelievable how people can make the gorgeous looking astra into something so cheap and ugly. Even official (edited) picture can't make the cobalt look half as good as any guy shooting a Astra. What a miracle! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://www.whatcar.co.uk//Car/Vauxhall/Astra%20Hatchback/252444946.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2005/chevrolet/cobalt/chev_coba_gall_main_ext_02.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><br><i>Modified by hokman at 11:04 PM 1/12/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by hokman at 2:23 PM 1/13/2005</i>

JBlair
01-13-2005, 01:26 AM
<I><B><U>HOY! LISTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!</U></B></I> <p> First of all, this thread is about the Aura, not about the Cobalt and Astra. Secondly, LISTEN TO US!!!!!!! The cars are in <B> NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM</B> related! The Cobalt is based on a platform <B>COMPLETELY</B> different than that of the Astra. Just because they look the same means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by JBlair at 2:31 AM 1/13/2005</i>

Ascariss
01-13-2005, 07:10 AM
hokman you have provided no info to SUPPORT your reasons, and thus sadly your wrong. Astra H is on modified Astra G platform, the cobalt is on the Delta platform. THESE PLATFORMS ARE NOT RELATED.

hokman
01-13-2005, 03:20 PM
<A HREF="http://www.cheersandgears.com/platforms/delta.php" TARGET="_blank">http://www.cheersandgears.com/platforms/delta.php</A>

Ascariss
01-13-2005, 03:30 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hokman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><A HREF="http://www.cheersandgears.com/platforms/delta.php" TARGET="_blank">http://www.cheersandgears.com/platforms/delta.php</A></TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Just because C&G post that don't mean it's true. Next both the new astra and delta platforms are differnet lengths, and even Opel stated that the new astra uses a modified previous version platform since it would have been too expensive to use the delta one.

syclone
01-13-2005, 06:58 PM
ets stop arguing about platforms and get back to the issue at hand...<p>the more i look at it, the more i realize...<br><FONT SIZE="5">THIS CONCEPT HAS THE UGLIEST FRONT END I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!</FONT><p>someone should really be shot for this. i hope it is just some sort of cruel joke from gm.

carrera4
01-14-2005, 02:27 AM
Why you say that?<br>I can see a lot of styling elements from the last astra series, and I like the design of this car. <br>The thing I don't like in the astra are the plastic materials of the external chrome elements: really cheap. <p>I hope the saturn Aura has better materials.

_PiCASSO_
01-14-2005, 04:50 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Just because C&G post that don't mean it's true. Next both the new astra and delta platforms are differnet lengths, and even Opel stated that the new astra uses a modified previous version platform since it would have been too expensive to use the delta one.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Here's some more legit references that confirm the Ion, Cobalt, Astra are all from the same Delta platform (even if they are modified by length):<p><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Delta_platform" TARGET="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Delta_platform</A><br><A HREF="http://www.baileycar.com/2005_cobalt.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.baileycar.com/2005_cobalt.html</A><br><A HREF="http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-02-19-gm-sporty_x.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/money/...x.htm</A><p>Remember, just because they don't look the same and not share exactly the same wheelbase (say the Ford C1 platform with Mazda3, Euro Fucus, Volvo S40/V50), doesn't mean their not from the same platform. <br>

_PiCASSO_
01-14-2005, 04:53 AM
One more thing... I'm not sure how accurate this webpage is, but it gives you an idea of future GM products and their respective platforms. Here's the one for the epsilon program, which includes the 2006 Saturn L-Series we are seeing in this forum:<p><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform" TARGET="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform</A><p>Cheers,<p>PiCASSO

Ascariss
01-14-2005, 07:14 AM
Nope, Opel said modified old platform. Not sure if the delta can be stretched, but if it can't be, then they share no platforms. The C1 platform for all 3 cars ford, volvo and mazda are all the same wheelbase.<p>All wheelbases are 2640mm for c max, mazda 3 and volvo s40. And as well as the focus.

carrera4
01-14-2005, 08:30 AM
and what about the mid size Mpv that have c-segment derived platform (C-Max, Zafira) ?

Ascariss
01-14-2005, 10:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>carrera4</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and what about the mid size Mpv that have c-segment derived platform (C-Max, Zafira) ? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What bout the C max? It uses the standard C1 platform, same wheelbase as well. The new Zafira uses the Astra H platform. <p>Got this from newspress:<p>NEW VAUXHALL ASTRA TO SHOWCASE <p>MOST ADVANCED CHASSIS IN CLASS<p>"Vauxhall is promising that the dynamic new look of the Astra will be reflected in the driving experience, when the new model goes on sale in May next year. <p>Building on the foundations of the <u>current</u> Astra  a car which already has one of the best chassis in class  the new Astra will take chassis technology in the segment to a new level. Features will include state-of-the-art, adaptive suspension technology and a press-button Sport mode for an even more sporting drive."<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Ascariss at 9:34 AM 1/14/2005</i>

JBlair
01-14-2005, 12:49 PM
We're still on this?!?!? Why do you people (Ascariss excluded) continue to maintain that Cobalt and Astra are the same car? Find me proof directly from GM and I might believe you.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by JBlair at 1:59 PM 1/14/2005</i>

Krypton
01-14-2005, 01:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>_PiCASSO_</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One more thing... I'm not sure how accurate this webpage is, but it gives you an idea of future GM products and their respective platforms. Here's the one for the epsilon program, which includes the 2006 Saturn L-Series we are seeing in this forum:<p><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform" TARGET="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform</A><p>Cheers,<p>PiCASSO</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I wouldnt trust that site too much, its a free encyclopedia that lets you add what you want, any one can edit the site

SV
01-14-2005, 06:18 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ets stop arguing about platforms and get back to the issue at hand...<p>the more i look at it, the more i realize...<br><FONT SIZE="5">THIS CONCEPT HAS THE UGLIEST FRONT END I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!</FONT><p>someone should really be shot for this. i hope it is just some sort of cruel joke from gm.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>i really don't see how this could, in any form, be a joke. this is by far one of GM's best efforts in years. while you're busy griping about the front-end styling, LOOK AT THE INTERIOR, it makes everything made by GM, or any american carmaker for that matter, before now look beyond terrible, while equaling the best brands in the world for design and quality. <p>then again, this is your opinion. but i still find what you said very offensive, as this is clearly one of the most impressive, competitive and complete american cars ever made (or it will be when the production model reaches showrooms) and you're bashing it because of the front-end styling.<p>i'm sorry if this is inapropriate or off-topic, but i had to get <I>my</I> opinion out.

_PiCASSO_
01-14-2005, 06:40 PM
Okay, I know I should drop the platform subject, but here's another example of same platform (DEW98) that don't have the same wheelbase length:<p>Lincoln LS 2,908mm (114.5") <br>Ford Thunderbird 2,723mm (107.2")<p>Ironically, the H-point of both vehicles is the same, even when the roofline of the Thunderbird is much lower than the LS (height of 1,323mm (52.1") vs 1,425mm (56.1"), respecitely). Bottom line, Ascariss, don't rely on wheelbase figures to indicate identical platforms.

_PiCASSO_
01-14-2005, 06:50 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We're still on this?!?!? Why do you people (Ascariss excluded) continue to maintain that Cobalt and Astra are the same car? Find me proof directly from GM and I might believe you.<p><br><i>Modified by JBlair at 1:59 PM 1/14/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, it's going to be difficult to find a direct source from GM, but a very credible automotive industry source is Wards Auto World:<p><A HREF="http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_gm_aims_cobalt" TARGET="_blank">http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_gm_aims_cobalt</A>/<p>"There is reason to be optimistic.<B> Cobalt </B>marks the North America arrival of GMs global <B>Delta</B> platform, also used by <B>Adam Opel AG</B> for the German auto makers <B>Astra</B>  unveiled at the Frankfurt auto show in September. GMs other front- or all-wheel-drive global architecture, the midsize Epsilon platform, has generally been well received. "<p>But if that doesn't convince you and all the other skeptics, I don't know what will.<p>Nuf Said.

JBlair
01-14-2005, 08:22 PM
As I said, give me proof directly from GM, not from the Automotive Press, which is wrong most of the time. The Astra is a completely different vehicle with different wheelbase, length, weight, suspension, height, etc................. <p>Anyways, we will know soon enough, as I have just contacted a media representative for GM engineering who should be able to clear it all up and finally prove that Cobalt and Astra are indeed, NOT the same vehicle.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by JBlair at 9:36 PM 1/14/2005</i>

Andre
01-15-2005, 03:58 AM
Guys, since it's well known the ION shares mechanics and running gear with the Cobalt, prehaps looking back at the ION's releases will clear this up....<p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">New Architecture<p>Built on GM's <b>all-new Delta architecture</b>, the five-passenger sedan and four-passenger quad coupe continue Saturn's traditional spaceframe construction. The new architecture allows the ION models to be substantially bigger than their predecessors - approximately 2 inches taller and 6 inches longer - providing a more significant command of the road. In addition, a wider track (approximately 2 inches front and rear) and longer wheelbase delivers a more substantial presence.<p>The new, stiffer Delta architecture leads to significant improvements in noise and vibration, as do hydraulic engine mounts, dual balance shafts on the Ecotec powerplant, and enhanced noise dampening throughout the vehicle.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Now, this is from a GM press release found <A HREF="http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/ION/2003/ionbigplans.shtml" TARGET="_blank">Here</A> but as Ascariss released above, the Astra is based on a revised version of the previous platform<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Larger in every direction<p>Although the wheelbase is unchanged, the new Opel Astra is longer, higher and wider than the previous model. This results in even more generousinternal dimensions, from which all passengers benefit.<p>...<p>Chassis, transmission, wheels:<br><b> IDS chassis</b><br> 5- - speed transmission, manual<br> 4 steel wheels 6 1 / 2 J x15 with tyres<br>195/ 65 R15 ( 6 1 / 2 J x16 with tyres<br>205/ 55 R16 for 1. 9 CD TI )</TD></TR></TABLE><p>http://www.adamauto.lv/opel/files/opel_astra_new_product_info.pdf#search='Opel%20Ast ra%20unveiling'<p>and I don't even have to quote this: It talks about improving an already proven Chassis<p><A HREF="http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040413.014/page/4/opel/1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.germancarfans.com/n....html</A><p>There will be no more talk of this

Naga Royal Guard
01-15-2005, 08:53 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> <b>4</b> steel wheels 6 1 / 2 J x15 with tyres</TD></TR></TABLE><p>well, im relieved they can clairify that for the public

Ascariss
01-15-2005, 12:23 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>_PiCASSO_</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bottom line, Ascariss, don't rely on wheelbase figures to indicate identical platforms.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That is why i was looking for a press release Opel media crapped out on me, so i had to turn to newspress. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0">

Andre
01-15-2005, 01:28 PM
ok guys, back to the Aura.....

hakkinen
01-15-2005, 06:21 PM
mea culpa...<p>but to be fair with myself i have to mention that both sedan and coupe looks a lot like the opels. i mean the basic lines. even you were suggesting, in the old forum, that the doors are the same.

Ascariss
01-15-2005, 06:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hakkinen</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mea culpa...<p>but to be fair with myself i have to mention that both sedan and coupe looks a lot like the opels. i mean the basic lines. even you were suggesting, in the old forum, that the doors are the same.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>just because a car looks similar to another model doesn't mean it's based of it, C1 platform from ford shows that quite clearly. The cobalt might have been styled so it looked similar to the Astra G, but that may only be coincidence.

hokman
01-16-2005, 12:00 AM
Ascariss, I don't know why that you are so negative about the fact that the Astra is the Cobalt. As we all know, GM is reuniting worldwide, Catera same as Omega, Malibu same as Vectra, then logically Cobalt = Astra, right??<br> And as we all know, GM's american department cars are pretty horrible, cavalier, Grand Am, Grand Prix. GM America wants Opels to replace their cars, and they want people to know that they are Opels. Have you seen the Malibu ads? They want you to know that it's european car for American car price. <p> One more thing, is the Delta platform more expensive and better than the last gen Astra platform? If so, does it mean that Cobalt is even better than the already outstanding New Astra? <p>I'm not here to argue, i'm here to know the TRUTH, if the Cobalt is on Astra's platform, I'll be conviced to buy it, but if it only shares platform with the crap Ion, I won't. I think this goes for the same as many others. I don't care the potential for delta, as long as the cheap cobalt is based on a good car (astra), then people will buy it. <br>JBlair, update on us if you receive any news from GM, thanks. We all (including GM) don't want the Delta to remain a mystery. We all hope that it's what the Astra uses, and that Cobalt is as good as the Astra, because you couldn't buy an Astra in Canada or USA.<p>Lastly, why would someone choose to use the same body panels and doors and mirrors, on a car with different platform? That's what doubts your idea, Ascariss.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by hokman at 11:15 PM 1/15/2005</i>

Andre
01-16-2005, 12:45 AM
Hokman, please read the above post where I brought out evidence from GM and Opel press releases which clearly show the cars are built on different architecture. <p>Please return discussion to the Saturn Aura. If you wish to pursue this further please create a thread in the "Opinions" area down below

StephenKHone
01-16-2005, 12:49 AM
Okay I have to weigh in here! You are blind! The doors on the Cobalt and Astra are clearly totally different with a superficial styling similarity. They are both GM products so what do you expect? Btw I'm not so sure the door mirrors are the same either.<p>Look at the trailing edge of the rear doors. Absolutely and unequivocally different. Not even close. Open your eyes and admit, that at the very least your are wrong on this particular issue.<p>Now back to the Aura. Awesome design should sell like crazy!<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by StephenKHone at 11:55 PM 1/15/2005</i>

Top Secret
01-16-2005, 12:52 AM
Guys, enough talk about the Cobalt/Astra similarities; as Andre said, this thread is for the <B>Saturn Aura</B>, not the Cobalt/Astra.

Andre
01-16-2005, 02:02 AM
<B>IF THERE IS TO BE ANY MORE TALK ABOUT THE OPEL ASTRA, CHEVY COBALT, AND SATURN ION, PLEASE DIRECT YOUR DISCUSSION TO A NEW THREAD IN <A HREF="http://www.carspyshots.net/zeroforum?id=384" TARGET="_blank">THE OPINIONS AREA</A>!!!</B><p>I do not want to see <b>ANY</b> more discussion on compact cars and their differences in here. I wish to see no comparisons of the Saturn Aura to the Opel Vectra, I only wish to see discussion and information on the Saturn Aura itself. <p>IF this rule is not adhered to and I hear ANY more mention of the Cobalt, Astra, ION, and Vectra in this thread, the thread will be locked and any subsequent discussion not initiated by a SENIOR staff member for reasons of releasing production information will be <b>DELETED</b> personally by me.<p>This sh<i></i>it is ridiculous. Stop pissing on each other because it stinks in here.

sono81
01-16-2005, 01:22 PM
This is a really good looking car! It looks almost production ready on the outside! One thing i don´t get it is that it has an "euro spec", i mean, it has the blinkers on the side and don´t have that small lights on the bumpers, but the rear light don´t have the turn signals in orange... Of course this is very acceptable on a concept car!

Nick
01-16-2005, 01:50 PM
this is quoted from C&G which was quoted from Lutz's blog...<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bob Lutz today updated the fastlane.gmblogs.com web blog and addressed comments on the blog that General Motors would not follow through with an "as hot" production model, and would instead stick to the "same old" General Motors of the past offering us a boring finished version.<p>Mr. Lutz anwered those remarks said "The Aura, as far as the sheet-metal is concerned, is 100 percent production-ready, right down to the size of the tires."<p>He also touched on remarks regarding the interior of the Aura which has set the show on fire by saying, "And that also goes for much of the interior. The thing is ready to go."<p>He also said the Sky that was shown is "what you see is what you get" which we here at C&G knew the Sky was a production model and not a concept. The Kappa cars are going to be amazing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ascariss
01-16-2005, 05:51 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>C&G</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He also said the Sky that was shown is "what you see is what you get" which <u>we here at C&G knew the Sky was a production model and not a concept.</u></TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> No sh**. Where did it say anwhere when the Sky was shown that it wasn't production? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/images/smilies/sponge.gif" BORDER="0"> (had to add him)