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IcedG35
04-05-2005, 05:32 PM
First current generation SWB S Class available in US<br>MSRP $65,620.00* <br>Engine3.7L 18-valve V-6 engine<br>Net Power241 hp @ 5,800 rpm<br>Net Torque258 lb-ft @ 3,000 to 4,500 rpm<br>Acceleration1 0 - 60 mph in 7.6 seconds<br> Fuel economy EPA estimate2 17 mpg <br> Highway estimate3 25 mpg <br>Emission certification Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV).<p>Also, a lower entry SLK280 will also be available soon. <p><IMG SRC="http://www.mbusa.com/media/images/main/models/S350V_main.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I know this isn't significant but I guess Mercedes is trying to sell as many S's as possible before the new king is throned. This seems like the last generation ML350 engine which gives the 430 more space than the SLK's 3.5 engine would. Similar to all the other models, $10,000 seperates this engine from the next engine up. No 4Matics or sport package available on this.

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 05:37 PM
wouldnt an E 500 be a better value; or even a CLS - talk about overlap

IcedG35
04-05-2005, 05:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wouldnt an E 500 be a better value; or even a CLS - talk about overlap</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not if you're going for size and the "prestige" of the S Class. Maybe they're hoping to take some sales from the LS430

anonms
04-05-2005, 05:48 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MBcrazE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Maybe they're hoping to take some sales from the LS430</TD></TR></TABLE><p>... with a V6-powered sedan whose entire secion forwards of the A-pillar looks as long as the secion between the A- and the B- pillar.

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 05:54 PM
the proportions of this car must be really nice<p>MB's US sales need help, but this aint it

IcedG35
04-05-2005, 05:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>anonms</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>... with a V6-powered sedan whose entire secion forwards of the A-pillar looks as long as the secion between the A- and the B- pillar.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You're right; this won't sell becuase the hood is too long. What were they thinking.

syclone
04-05-2005, 06:56 PM
i think he meant it wont be stealing sales from the ls430, which it won't - but i do think it will find a fair number of homes.

LEXUS FAN!
04-05-2005, 08:18 PM
I have been in the S430, and my goodness was it heavy.<p>I can't even imagine how underpowered and overweight this is when inside of the cockpit.

anonms
04-05-2005, 08:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MBcrazE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>You're right; this won't sell becuase the hood is too long. What were they thinking. </TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>I'm not saying it won'tsell because of that.<p>I'm just saying it looks weird.<p>And plus, they're only putting a V6 in there, for heaven's sake. Is, like, half of it empty space?<p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have been in the S430, and my goodness was it heavy.<p>I can't even imagine how underpowered and overweight this is when inside of the cockpit.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>But it's smaller so it might weigh less.

Uberwagon
04-05-2005, 08:31 PM
Nah, this is a good thing for Mercedes. Back in the day, they used to put their smaller 6's in the S-class as an entry-point. They did pretty well at it too as I recall. With the new 350 engine, it won't be a muscle car but it'll do MUCH better than was possible with, say, the 320 motor.<p>S-class buyers aren't kids with lead feet, after all. They're older folks who like to cruuuise in their biiiig ride. If they didn't have the money, they'd be driving Avalons & Buicks. But they do so this probably will be a nice option for that segment. IMHO <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Naga Royal Guard
04-05-2005, 08:35 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I can't even imagine how underpowered and overweight this is when inside of the cockpit.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>what is that supposed to mean?

Comrade
04-05-2005, 08:51 PM
So they price this car for, like, $11,000 per cylinder? S600 for 130K, S500 for 88K and the S350 for 66 K and I'm guessing the 77K S430 would have had a 7-cylinder engine if that was possible. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I think the S350 IS causing overlap cuz you've got 3 sedans in a 5K price difference range. <br>And yes, I think the CLS is a sedan, not a coupe. Would you call a car with 2 doors and a square-like glasshouse a "sedan"? I don't think so.<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Comrade at 9:01 PM 4/5/2005</i>

AM2
04-05-2005, 09:00 PM
I've been wondering about the 241bhp 3.7 liter 18-valve V6 engine in the S350 since it was launch in Asia last year...<br>I wonder why they didn't put the stronger 268bhp 3.5 liter 24-valve V6 of the SLK350 and E350 in the S350?<p>Well anyway at least the S350 can still accelerate 0-60mph in a respectable 7.6 sec.

Comrade
04-05-2005, 09:04 PM
Too close to the S430's 275HP engine.

AM2
04-05-2005, 09:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Comrade</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>And yes, I think the CLS is a sedan, not a coupe. Would you call a car with 2 doors and a square-like glasshouse a "sedan"? I don't think so.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I can say its halfway to being a coupe.<br><IMG SRC="http://www.reportmotori.it/Mercedes%20CLS%20-%20Profilo2%20640.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>All you need to do is remove the rear doors and make the front doors longer and it will be a true coupe like the BMW 6-series.<br><B>It already has the right proportions and the lower than average(for a sedan) roofline.</B>

Hornbag
04-06-2005, 12:39 AM
Isnt the new S class due out soon...this seems a bit dumb...and late

Cozz
04-06-2005, 04:53 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Isnt the new S class due out soon...this seems a bit dumb...and late</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's to keep the sales rolling until the new one comes out. I do remember MB using 6cyl motors on the S-class before, it did very well.

fubar
04-06-2005, 10:18 AM
Yes new S-Class is expected to launch 1st quarter 06 as an 07 model. This SWB model is everyones chance to buy a S-Class at a more affortable price no moatter how underpowered it will be.

Naga Royal Guard
04-06-2005, 10:30 AM
any specifics on this SWB; namely dimensions and weight - standard equipment should be interesting

erzhik
04-06-2005, 10:31 AM
New S class is out only in 2006, thats not soon...another 10-12 month to wait....

VexedandGlorious
04-06-2005, 11:56 AM
this seems dumb to me, wouldnt they want people that want to get an sclass,to get the next gen one.

bucket
04-06-2005, 12:18 PM
i'm sure car services in the new york metropolitan area will snatch up a good number of these. more prestigious than a town car, but with better gas mileage.<p>this isn't much of a gamble for m-b considering the fact that it is an existing model elsewhere and therefore requires minimal initial expense to bring it to north america.

Santeno
04-06-2005, 12:41 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Graffititech</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this seems dumb to me, wouldnt they want people that want to get an sclass,to get the next gen one.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Actually, until you introduce a new model, it is preferable to sell as many of the current model as possible. That's part of the reason why you see great deals and some high spec specialty models launched near the end of a vehicle's model life. Once a new model replaces an existing one, all of your existing stock of old models depriciates.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bucket</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm sure car services in the new york metropolitan area will snatch up a good number of these. more prestigious than a town car, but with better gas mileage.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>No they wont. Once you add taxes, spending somwhere in the high 60's for a new vehicle that you will need to bring to the dealership to service, does not make for a good car service investment. This is especially true when you can buy a new town car for more than $20K less.<p>

Roadster44
04-06-2005, 01:21 PM
S-Class offers more space than CLS, its styling appeals to some buyers more than that of E-Class and its Toyota Camry taillights. Furthermore it can take sales away not just from LS430, but also XJ6. Obviously MB knows that it won't sell a ton of S-Classes, but this is a nice way to test out how well it will do here. Will buyers accept SWB? Don't forget that BMW's 740i is SWB and selling quite well, though its a V8. Maybe MB are contemplating sending W221 SWB here. Trust me if MB wasn't going to make any money on this, then they would not do it. Just look at B-Class fiasco.

Wyldeone22
04-06-2005, 02:25 PM
I, personally, think it's very smart. <p>Put mildly, the current gen S class product life cycle is in dire need of some rejuvination. <p>Although there are three cars in the same range, I don't think there will be much cannibalization. Mercedes does a pretty good job of creating marketing plans without overlap.

LEXUS FAN!
04-06-2005, 03:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>what is that supposed to mean?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It means the car is overweight and it is underpowered. It is too heavy, and it does not have enough power to feel comfortable.

Cozz
04-06-2005, 03:55 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>It means the car is overweight and it is underpowered. It is too heavy, and it does not have enough power to feel comfortable.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hmm.. you sure about that? I don't think that's the case in Europe.

Uberwagon
04-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Yeah, I drove one (an S430) at a MB ride-n-drive and it was plenty quick and lively. This will probably handle better, given lighter weight, better balance, & shorter wheelbase. <p>A thought, to Santeno's point: Development costs on cars are amortized over the life of the car. The more cars you sell in that product cycle, the more you can pay down those costs, turn a profit and reinvest in new product development. An S350 could be an excellent way to boost volume to squeeze the last bit of profit from the current product. Or, it can be a way to ensure that your fixed costs (production) are covered by keeping the factory busy. Sometimes it costs more to NOT make cars than it is to go ahead and make them (ie, GM's problem du jour).<p>So this 350 will find homes, whether it's a high-end driving service (they use S classes quite often), old folks, or just people that like a large, fine driving car.

IcedG35
04-06-2005, 04:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>It means the car is overweight and it is underpowered. It is too heavy, and it does not have enough power to feel comfortable.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>0-60 in 7.6 seconds isn't fast but its definitely not slow. If this engine was large enough to move the ML then the S, which is only about 300lb more should be no problem.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any specifics on this SWB; namely dimensions and weight - standard equipment should be interesting </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Exterior Dimensions<br> <br>Wheelbase 116.7 in/2,965 mm<br> Overall length 198.5 in/5,043 mm<br> Overall height 56.9 in/1,444 mm<br> Overall width 73.0 in/ 1,855 mm<br> Front track 62.0 in/ 1,574 mm<br> Rear track 62.0 in/1,574 mm<br> Coefficient of drag 0.27 cd<br> Curb weight 3,980 lb/1,805 kg<br> <p>Interior Dimension<br> <br> Front headroom 37.6 in/956 mm<br> Rear headroom 38.4 in/976 mm<br> Front legroom 41.3 in/1,050 mm<br> Rear legroom 35.6 in/904 mm<br> Front shoulder room 59.2 in/1,503 mm<br> Rear shoulder room 58.3 in/1,480 mm<br> Cabin capacity 99.6 cu ft/2820.0 liters<br> Cargo capacity 15.4 cu ft/436.1 liters <p><B>This car will definitely help the current S class go out with great sales numbers, plus there's always the the S65 to help balance things out. </B>

spwolf
04-06-2005, 05:54 PM
problem with this is the prestige... where has the MB gone to? S350? Thats pretty low for MB USA.<p>It is not underpowered in greater scheme of things, but it wont feel quick, and for people buying 65k car, it has to be better than this. LS430 will feel as if it was an race car compared to this.<p>So, it might get them few thousand extra sales until next S is released, but is that worth the image lost?

IcedG35
04-06-2005, 07:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>spwolf</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">problem with this is the prestige... where has the MB gone to? S350? Thats pretty low for MB USA.<p>It is not underpowered in greater scheme of things, but it wont feel quick, and for people buying 65k car, it has to be better than this. LS430 will feel as if it was an race car compared to this.<p>So, it might get them few thousand extra sales until next S is released, but is that worth the image lost?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The last generation S class and in my opinion most prestigious was available as an S320. In fac,t there has always been a V6 S-Class.

Designo
04-06-2005, 07:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MBcrazE</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The last generation S class and in my opinion most prestigious was available as an S320. In fac,t there has always been a V6 S-Class. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'm sorry to break it to you, but IMO, a V6-powered S-Class is not that prestigious, considering it's the "lowest" of the range (430, 500, 55, 600, 65...); maybe it's acceptable in Europe and other markets around the world (because of fuel prices, size, economics...), but here in the USA, the status-quo seems to be a huge, hearty V8 in a flagship sedan. MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus all have their V8's here (not MB anymore, and I think Lexus only offers the LS in the V8 option worldwide).<p>As "economical" and "teaser" the S350 may seem, I don't think that it lives up to the prestige of the S430, S500, S55, S600, or S65 S-Class models. At $65,000, you'd be better off in an Audi A8 4.2 (at least it's a V8) or the Lexus LS430. $65k for a V6 seems too much, especially if it's the older V6, not the new one that's in the SLK350 or the E350.<p>And this is comming from REALLY REALLY avid S-Class fan... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

zwei Biere bitte
04-06-2005, 08:05 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LEXUS FAN!</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It means the car is overweight and it is underpowered. It is too heavy, and it does not have enough power to feel comfortable.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, considering a Scion xB takes about 10.6 seconds to get to 60 mph... <p>It takes about 7.5 seconds to get to 60. Not too bad for a big lux sedan IMO.

IcedG35
04-06-2005, 08:08 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Designo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I'm sorry to break it to you, but IMO, a V6-powered S-Class is not that prestigious, considering it's the "lowest" of the range (430, 500, 55, 600, 65...); maybe it's acceptable in Europe and other markets around the world (because of fuel prices, size, economics...), but here in the USA, the status-quo seems to be a huge, hearty V8 in a flagship sedan. MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus all have their V8's here (not MB anymore, and I think Lexus only offers the LS in the V8 option worldwide).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I was saying the last generation S class in general, not just the S320, was the most prestigious. therefore having the smaller engine, which to an observer would be unnoticable except for the badging, hardly decreases the prestigue of such an amazing car.

Naga Royal Guard
04-06-2005, 08:09 PM
he sat in a car and somehow managed to figure out it is overweight - and you took it serously ?! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

zwei Biere bitte
04-06-2005, 08:24 PM
I was just making a simple comparsion between two like things... a simile I guess you could say <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0">

Uberwagon
04-07-2005, 02:47 AM
With all due respect to everyone (truly), I think many of us are commenting on broad automobile business issues looking at it only from your own enthusiast-niche point of view. As younger, male, auto-enthusiasts, we have completely different priorities from those who are actually buying the cars. Most S-class buyers don't know or care what the difference is between S350 and S430 (there's S80 more in one?!). Think of all the women who couldn't care less about the number on the back. They aren't any more or less impressed, they just know they're saving a chunk and getting a really nice big Benz that goes plenty fast for them. 0-60 isn't so much the issue for them as it is with, say, the small niche of S55 buyers.<p>IMHO! <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Santeno
04-07-2005, 08:37 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Uberwagon</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A thought, to Santeno's point: Development costs on cars are amortized over the life of the car. The more cars you sell in that product cycle, the more you can pay down those costs, turn a profit and reinvest in new product development. An S350 could be an excellent way to boost volume to squeeze the last bit of profit from the current product. Or, it can be a way to ensure that your fixed costs (production) are covered by keeping the factory busy. Sometimes it costs more to NOT make cars than it is to go ahead and make them (ie, GM's problem du jour).<p>So this 350 will find homes, whether it's a high-end driving service (they use S classes quite often), old folks, or just people that like a large, fine driving car.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>You are absolutely 100% correct in your statement. However, don't forget that the exact same applies to the town car (which is Crown Victoria based and has been amortizing for over 20 years now). That said MB will probably find many more homes for this S-class variant. A few might come from fleet buyers, But I would wager that most will come from people who would have liked to have bought an S-class, but found the price a tad to dear. At $60k-plus for the s-class, most limousine fleet operators are likely to continue using the more economical town car for the bulk of their operations (especially when you consider that maintenance is drastically cheaper and repairs can be canibalized from other town cars).<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 6:24 PM 4/7/2005</i>

Roadster44
04-07-2005, 11:43 AM
I am really noticing who is who on this board. And after reading your post Uberwagon, I was impressed. Your thinking went along with a business sense as opposed to "oh well there is no prestige and no one will buy it." I already stated above that MB knows how to make a business case for the product. It also knows that only 2 out of 5 new cars in US market succeed. They weren't going to throw us S350 without doing some proper research. I mentioned some reasons above as to why they would and why it would sell. Uberwagon also added some strong points in sense that it would help to recoup costs. I strongly suggest for everyone on here to start reading posts in depth and not flame someone for saying something different.

Santeno
04-07-2005, 12:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Roadster44</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am really noticing who is who on this board.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Who am I? Ooh Ooh, Can I be Yoda? <IMG SRC="http://www.jivemagazine.com/images/smileys/yoda.gif" BORDER="0">

Waleed
04-07-2005, 04:19 PM
i think they're trying to see how people respond to a v6 luxury sedan because the new S class was supposed to get a v6 version. they're just trying to play it safe.

Uberwagon
04-07-2005, 06:08 PM
Thanks dude. Just trying to see the forrest for the trees, ya know? I've worked making cars for awhile so it's cool to bring that point of view in to the board. Cheers! <br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Another thought: Exchange rates mean their current volume is threatened by high prices. They're keeping market share by introducing a more competitively priced model. Yeah, prestige is an issue but they've gotta "move metal" as they say...