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Charger
01-31-2005, 04:52 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/3598740.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/3598741.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/3598742.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/3598743.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>SOURCE: <A HREF="http://www.autoweek.nl" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autoweek.nl</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Ascariss at 5:01 PM 1/31/2005</i>

Gian86
01-31-2005, 05:21 PM
OMG!!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>This must be the best Alfa Remeo Car i've ever seen, just like the concept version in 2002.

Soul Man
01-31-2005, 05:54 PM
is it just me or does this car seem like it went from concept to production really fast, amybe its because Alfa's not in america anymore, so i havent been as on top. Either way this car is gorgeous.<br>in alfa's plan of reentering NA is this (or seeing how delayed that plan is getting, maybe another generation of this car) on the plan to come here?

Tidal
01-31-2005, 06:05 PM
Now thats good. I was kinda concerned about the way Alfas looks were going after the 156 and 147 restylings, but this is spectacular. Its replacing the gtv right? That front looks like its going unchanged into the 157/8, cant wait to see the sportwagon

sono81
01-31-2005, 06:06 PM
All I know is by looking at this car, I wonder how the 157 will look like! This is the GTV replacement? Will it have an open version to replace the Spider?

Charger
01-31-2005, 06:14 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> These are the first official images of the Alfa Romeo Brera, the marque's new flagship sports coupe which will be unveiled at the 75th Geneva International Motor Show next month.<p>Two models will head the launch, namely the 2.2 JTS with 185 bhp and the 3.2 V6 Q4 with 260 bhp. The Q4 will have central and rear TORSEN-C differentials, for permanent rear-biased all-wheel drive.<p>It was three years ago when the Brera, designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro, was revealed at the Geneva Salon. From that point forward the car received an exceptional amount of interest, so much so that Alfa Romeo had no other choice but to take as much of the concept and put it into production.<p>The original concept even won the prestigious Concept Car of the Year Award, an award also representing the US market, a country where Alfa Romeo hopes to return to in the not so distant future.<p>At a first glance, the production Brera seems to be a carbon copy of the original design, but this is not the case. The car is longer, higher and narrower, measuring 4.411 mm long, 1.369 mm high and 1.830 mm wide respectively. The Breras wheelbase measures 2.528 mm.<p>As could be anticipated, some of the concepts most exciting features have not made it into production, the most obvious being the scissor-style doors which have been replaced by conventional doors hinging off the A-post. The baguette-style rear optical units have also increased in size along with the hatchback opening. Despite this, the car still retains a lot of the original details, including the tinted glass roof and the striking projector-style xenon headlamps.<p>Alfa Romeo are profiling the car as a 2+2, but the new coupe appears to be more usable than the old GTV with more rear headroom and boot space. The Breras boot space amounts to 240 / 550 litres, depending on the foldable rear seat positions.<p>The Brera will be launched throughout the European market during October and November once production starts in September. European prices are expected to be around  32.000 including VAT for the 2.2 JTS and  39.500 for the 3.2 V6 (AWD). Despite this, the car will come with a long option list in order to keep the base prices affordable.<p>Models following the launch will be the 200 bhp 2.4 JTD (March 2006), the 250 bhp 3.0 JTD (May 2007) and the 400 bhp Biturbo 3.2 V6 Q4 (October 2007). A Spider version will follow shortly after the launch of the coupe, and will be built by Pininfarina. The soft-top Spider will be slightly shorter in length (4.394 mm), 1 mm higher and will have a fixed boot capacity of 240 litres.<p>Next in the line of Alfa Romeo news, imminently, is the hotly awaited Alfa 156 replacement, the Alfa 159.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>source: italiaspeed

spwolf
01-31-2005, 06:26 PM
so basically this is slightly more than GT?<br>These two cars are too close together in pricing...<p>But it sure does have the best AWD system in the world! :-)

sono81
01-31-2005, 06:29 PM
Thanks for the info, charger!

SV
01-31-2005, 06:55 PM
15<I>9</I>? i know they're doing it to show how different/improved the new one is over the 156 (at least that's probably why; it's the reason aston martin skipped the DB8 and named the DB7 replacement the DB9), but this is tad far, i mean, what are they gonna name the next one? 160?<p>anyway, back on topic, i really like this car. the front's especially mean-looking <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0">

JBlair
01-31-2005, 08:40 PM
I can definitely see the increased front overhang, but this car is amazing. Alfa's US return can't come soon enough.

Naga Royal Guard
01-31-2005, 08:51 PM
i like that, i wonder how dependable Alfa Romeos are

Kakairo
01-31-2005, 09:00 PM
Beautiful. I can't wait to see the Spider.<p>Now let's hope Alfa sorts out its dreadful UK dealer network...

Hornbag
02-01-2005, 01:06 AM
Has that hump in the bonnet like a Toyota!<p>But the fron is truly breat taking. Very nice, but the back is a little over done.

Top Secret
02-01-2005, 01:25 AM
As much as I liked the concept - it really looks like a disappointment for me. The rear is too busy and doesn't flow like the front, it doesn't look like a coupe, more like a shooting brake and I really wanted this car to have a lot more power than the 3.2L V6, even though it still goes hard.<p>Personally, I would much rather prefer to have the Alfa GT.

carrera4
02-01-2005, 01:58 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As much as I liked the concept - it really looks like a disappointment for me. The rear is too busy and doesn't flow like the front, it doesn't look like a coupe, more like a shooting brake and I really wanted this car to have a lot more power than the 3.2L V6, even though it still goes hard.<p>Personally, I would much rather prefer to have the Alfa GT. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>what about the biturbo version eith 400hp? Isn't enough?<br>And the rear end it's quite similar to the concept...<p>However I really like the car and on the paper seem to be a huge improvement compared to the current and recent past alfa range.<br>It's not clean as the concept and the proportions changed too, but these are modifications required to product the car and due to the use of a complete different mechanical layout...<p>The future 157/8/9 (?) will be a really cool car, although the rear end will be far more traditional than this...<p>

Top Secret
02-01-2005, 02:01 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>carrera4</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the biturbo version eith 400hp? Isn't enough?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Whoops - my bad folks; I must've missed that bit. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>But I thought this was going to be a supercar? But it seems it's much more mainstream than I thought it would've been.

the1
02-01-2005, 02:32 AM
It's gorgeous, though not much different than the concept.<br>But why are they launching the Brera before the 157?? I don't get it.

tyter1
02-01-2005, 03:21 AM
Brera is presented today but will be sold only starting from autumn, while 15? will be launched in Geneva and sold in june<br>don't know why, maybe to increase the price GM will pay for FIAT put !!!<br>I think also Alfa coming back in NA (non mentioning all new Lancia models) will heavily depend from the put price<br>it is not the solution to all Fiat financial problems, but it could be a good breath for 2005/2006 while new pivotal models are launched

Gian86
02-01-2005, 05:22 AM
High Resolution pics are now avaiable at Italiaspeed.com

carrera4
02-01-2005, 05:43 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Top Secret</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Whoops - my bad folks; I must've missed that bit. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>But I thought this was going to be a supercar? But it seems it's much more mainstream than I thought it would've been.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, it's more mainstream than the concept. Think 3 series coup...<p>The Alfa supercar will be, the 8c Competizione, if they'll ever build it....

carrera4
02-01-2005, 05:45 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Gian05</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">High Resolution pics are now avaiable at Italiaspeed.com</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hi res pic also at <A HREF="http://www.fiatautopress.ch/news/news.cfm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.fiatautopress.ch/news/news.cfm</A> and <A HREF="http://www.automobilismo.it" TARGET="_blank">http://www.automobilismo.it</A>

Ascariss
02-01-2005, 07:12 AM
Here are the press pics:<p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera01.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera02.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera03.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera04.jpg" BORDER="0">

bm88
02-01-2005, 07:15 AM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>This is so amazing!<p>I had no idea that Alfa Romero were making a production version of the Brera! It actually looks a lot like the concept version aswell (which has gorgeous in real life).<p>Alfa have to do a very high performance version of this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/scared.gif" BORDER="0">

iakovos
02-01-2005, 09:07 AM
This is an amazing car!!<p>It is sexy to look at yet practical for everyday use.<p>The 3.2 V6 4WD has 2 Torsen C differentials (middle and rear) which are rear-biased.<br>In effect this car will handle like a RWD with the extra grip of a 4WD... I can't wait to try it out.<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

Dal
02-01-2005, 10:36 AM
Concept :<p><IMG SRC="http://www.alfacentro.com/features/brera/images/brera_06.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Production:<p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera01.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Concept:<p><IMG SRC="http://www.alfacentro.com/features/brera/images/brera_05.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Production:<p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//brera02.jpg" BORDER="0">

RikfromBelgium
02-01-2005, 10:46 AM
They changed it too much, especially the rear. I really don't like the rear. I hope it will look better in real-life, because I do not like this car, although the front is rather agressive.

Santeno
02-01-2005, 11:45 AM
So how big is this exactly? is it small enough to be a2-door hatchback, or is it bigger and longer like a shooting break configuration. My guess is shooting break.

JBlair
02-01-2005, 12:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They changed it too much, especially the rear. I really don't like the rear. I hope it will look better in real-life, because I do not like this car, although the front is rather agressive. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree, but there is a functional reason for that. (the car needs to get good marks from NCAP as well as looking good)

sono81
02-01-2005, 12:33 PM
The interior of this car seems 157 based as well....

JBlair
02-01-2005, 12:39 PM
Where are there pics of the interior?

sono81
02-01-2005, 12:55 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where are there pics of the interior?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sorry, I judged by the shape of the dash we can see thru the windshield and on spypics of the 157 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> By the way, good pics as always on <A HREF="http://www.km77.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com</A>

Tidal
02-01-2005, 05:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So how big is this exactly? is it small enough to be a2-door hatchback, or is it bigger and longer like a shooting break configuration. My guess is shooting break.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>length 441cm/174inches<br>width 183cm/74inches<br>height 137cm/54inches<br>w.base 253cm/100inches<p>give or take a couple mm... its all in <A HREF="http://www.italiaspeed.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.italiaspeed.com</A>. its about the same size as the GT, slightly shorter and wider

cowboysnkisses
02-01-2005, 07:22 PM
changed the rear too much?? I really don't think so. They just productionalized. They HAD to give the car a proper hatch and bumper. That's the main change I can see from these pics. I actually think it's incredibly close to the concept, and it looks fabulous. Now bring it to the US.

Spazmatron
02-02-2005, 01:15 AM
Sweet and cool. Good job, ItalDesign! And really this is so nice that production Brera looks like concept car. Amazing! <br>Now it's down to Alfa to build them properly.<br>I've heard numerous reports about crap build quality of Coupe GT for example.<p>And it should look even better in red!

davidChief
02-04-2005, 02:21 AM
This car looks fantastic. I actually prefer it to the concept.<p>I'll have to take a very close look at it when it becomes available. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

_PiCASSO_
02-04-2005, 04:38 AM
Absolultely stunning... especially in production form. I was expecting something that is very much tuned down which has slight similarities to the concept. Way to go, Alfa. Let's hope that the crap that's happening between GM and Fiat will not affect Alfa Romeo bring this beauty across the Atlantic Ocean [my mouth is watering just thinking about it].

Philsshon
02-04-2005, 06:09 AM
too bad this will not come to the us

whipster
02-04-2005, 07:25 AM
They should have left concept's design, production one is too busy and even too ordinary for me.

Tommaso13
02-21-2005, 03:07 PM
Alfa Romeo 159 - Official pictures<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autotitre.com/forum/up/354873db8d.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.autotitre.com/forum/up/7683f42eec.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.autotitre.com/forum/up/aeee2edb8b.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br> <IMG SRC="http://www.autotitre.com/forum/up/cac85f2c55.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>source: autotitre

Dan J.
02-21-2005, 03:25 PM
This car is filthy gorgeous!

-Zouz-
02-21-2005, 03:57 PM
<A HREF="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/8112/37362alf7ec.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/8112/37362alf7ec.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A> <A HREF="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/5675/37362aalf4qf.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/5675/37362aalf4qf.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A> <A HREF="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/1909/37362dalf5ua.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/1909/37362dalf5ua.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A> <A HREF="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/1963/37362calf5sl.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/1963/37362calf5sl.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A> <A HREF="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/8691/37362balf7sa.jpg" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://img45.exs.cx/img45/8691/37362balf7sa.th.jpg" BORDER="0"></A><p><B>Alfa Romeo 159, world preview</B><p> <p>The Alfa Romeo 159, the first of a new family that will replace the 156, makes its debut at the Geneva Motor Show. This original saloon is the heir to a successful model and it continues where the 156 left off, aiming to become the new benchmark for the segment.<p>The new Alfa Romeo 159 will be on the market in the Summer; it has an elegant, sinuous line, which combines generous dimensions with the compactness typical of Alfa Romeo sports cars, thanks to a balanced play of proportions and volumetric ratios. The result is a prestigious car that combines refined Italian styling with Alfa Romeos sporty elegance.<p><B>Distinctive styling</B><p>Designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro in collaboration with the Alfa Romeo Styling Centre, the new car has a number of distinctive features that highlight its strong personality and make it immediately recognisable, in the best Alfa tradition. Starting from the front, which is strong and essential, dominated by the Alfa Romeo family feeling of the characteristic cloverleaf sporting the large shield. The line of the entire car springs from here, combining a light stylistic aggressiveness with strikingly elegant forms: an impression that is underlined by the light clusters, which are delightful design features.<p>The trapezoid shape of the front view accentuates the cars sensation of solidity, highlighted by the way the passenger compartment rests on a powerful shoulder. This runs all along the waistline of the car, broadening considerably when it reaches the rear pillar. This pillar has a double stylistic function: it links to the curve of the rear window, above the rear axle (another clear stylistic expression of strength, robustness and dynamism), and embraces the passenger compartment thanks to the stylistic device of the classic Alfa Romeo elbow. The front pillar is set further back to make the line look sleeker, underlining the presence of the powerful engine, and making the passenger compartment look more compact, improving visibility on bends.<p>In other words, sleek but solid, dynamic but robust: only outstanding stylistic balance can combine such different characteristics. For example the muscular wing which, next to the generous wheels, marks the widest point of the car, unequivocally conveying the ideal of a car that is firmly anchored to the ground.<p>In spite of its capacious size, the rear end, with its beautifully balanced form, blends perfectly with the front, setting off its unique personality, and has a horizontal design, underlined by a chromed double exhaust tail-pipe on the more powerful versions. And it is topped off by a small spoiler which combines styling and practicality, right above the logo which is positioned where it is immediately visible, and the elongated lights, divided by the slit of the boot, which include cylindrical shapes derived from the styling of the front headlights. And finally, the new model offers a choice of 14 different colours.<p><B>The spacious, functional interior of an outstanding saloon</B><p>The new model is roomier than the 156, and more comfortable, a strong point that is confirmed by its generous dimensions: it is 4,660 mm long, 1,828 mm wide and 1,417 mm high, with a wheelbase of 2,700 millimetres.<p>Like the external styling, the interior of the Alfa Romeo 159 also represents an evolved expression of the sportiness and elegance embodied by Alfa. It was defined around the driving position, focusing attention on the driver: excellent ratios for the distances between pedals, seat, steering wheel and gearbox give him a sense of total control over the car, which produces the enjoyable driving so typical of Alfa Romeo. The facia and wrapround centre console incorporate all the driving instruments and are turned ergonomically towards the driver. The speedometer, rev counter and other instruments, all strictly analogue, are circular with clear, refined, extremely legible graphics. The anti-glare lip accentuates the boat shape of the main instruments, confirming a feature peculiar to Alfa Romeo design that is based on a deep-rooted attention to volumes and mature treatment of surfaces.<p>To underline the functional continuity between the facia and the console, the designers aimed to achieve stylistic continuity between them: the console, which is raised as if stretching towards the facia, has a sporty gearlever with short, precise movements, and a comfortable armrest that incorporates a large insulated storage compartment. The interior achieves a perfect balance between elegance and sportiness, an equation that Alfa Romeo translates into refined colour combinations, quality fabrics, precious fine grain leather and luxurious materials (like the aluminium mouldings).<p>The range includes three specification levels, each featuring specific natural interior upholstery. The sophisticated slush moulding technology with which the facia was made, guarantees a refined opaque effect and a surface that is soft to the touch. The customer will appreciate the wrapround, finely modelled seats, which are made with carefully selected materials paying great attention to the details.<p><B>Class-beating passive safety</B><p>With the new Alfa 159 project, Alfa Romeo aims to position itself at the top of the class for passive safety. The Alfa Romeo engineers have designed and developed a new premium floorpan which adopts high performance materials, multiply sheet metal and laser welding. From the viewpoint of the architecture, the bodyshell also benefits from numerous measures such as the use of boxed elements that are rigidly connected transversely and vertically, three load lines in the front, longitudinals that run the whole length of the car, built-in structures and a larger number of spot welds around structural nodes. The result is the excellent torsional rigidity of the bodyshell, the best in its segment: over 180,000 daNm/rad.<p>The Alfa Romeo 159 boasts as many as eight airbags (including special bags to protect the knees and sidebags that extend all along the windows area); innovative restraint systems (pretensioners on the clasp, and decreasing load limiters on the seat-belts), and front seats with an anti-whiplash device which brings the head-restraint nearer to the occupants necks in the event of a rear impact.<p><B>Powerful, elastic engines that respect the environment</B><p>This striking aesthetic styling is set off by a broad, comprehensive range of engines. First of all, the three new JTS engines with continuous dual variable valve timing (inlet and exhaust): the 3.2 V6 24v (191 kW - 260 bhp), the 2.2 (136 kW - 185 bhp) and the 1.9 (118 kW  160 bhp), with a specific power output between 81 and 85 bhp/l. All the engines meet Euro 4 standards, exploiting the direct petrol injection in full, a particular combustion system known as JTS: Jet Thrust Stoichiometric. For the customer, this means brilliant engine performance, which increases the driving enjoyment and the performance of the car. The torque values of the three engines are equally outstanding, and 88% is already available at 2,000 rpm: 322 Nm (32.8 kgm) at 4,500 rpm for the 3.2 V6 JTS, 230 Nm (23.4 kgm) at 4,500 rpm for the 2.2 JTS, and 190 Nm (19.4 kgm) at 4,500 rpm for the 1.9 JTS.<p>Those are the petrol engines. But Alfa Romeo has always been on the leading edge in the field of diesel engines too, epitomised by the 2.4 JTDM 5-cylinder 20v engine (147 kW - 200 bhp at 4000 rpm) and torque of 400 Nm (40.8 kgm at 2000 rpm), and the two 1.9 JTDM: the first is a 16v delivering 110 kW (150 bhp at 4000 rpm) and torque of 320 Nm (32.6 kgm at 2000 rpm), the second is an 8v delivering 88 kW (120 bhp at 4000 rpm) and torque of 280 Nm (28.6 kgm at 2000 rpm).<p>On the latest generation of Common Rail engines, the JTD units with Multijet technology, turbocharging is entrusted to a variable geometry turbo and intercooler. The 1.9 JTDM exploits a specific turbine developed by Alfa Romeo while the 2.4 JTDM has a new cylinder head and new conrods in fractured steel. The three engines all meet Euro 4 requirements, and incorporate a particulate trap (DPF) which eliminates particulate almost entirely, in line with the latest Euro 5 indications (it is a for life system that does not need to be regenerated with additives).<p>And finally, the range includes new mechanical gearboxes, all with six speeds and featuring short strokes, precise engagement and limited loads. Automatic transmissions and a robotised Selespeed gearbox will also be available, all with six speeds.

-Zouz-
02-21-2005, 03:57 PM
<B>Enjoyable driving and active safety</B><p>The new Alfa Romeo 159 shows its 'Alfa' pedigree in full, for example, by guaranteeing control and entertaining driving that admit no compromise. Travelling comfort and dynamic behaviour, features peculiar to Alfa Romeo cars, become real strengths on this model. The car has an interesting suspension layout, the fruit of a new project that set extremely high standards of excellence. It has 'high' double wishbones at the front, and Multilink at the rear. This means a greater capacity to absorb road roughness, more linearity and precision in response to the steering (the most direct of the standard saloons), superb roadholding, maximum stability in high speed manoeuvres and the agility of a true Alfa Romeo on narrow mixed routes. The braking system is also the most competitive in its category, reflecting Alfa Romeo's great tradition in this field. The Alfa Romeo 159's excellent road behaviour is also due to the tyres which achieve the best balance between handling and comfort. To minimise swinging on bends while guaranteeing excellent absorption of obstacles, the Alfa Romeo technicians worked with suppliers to develop special tyres, the largest in their category, right up to 235/45 R 18.<p>The new Alfa Romeo 159 offers the evolved permanent 4-wheel drive system with three differentials (a Torsen C self-locking central differential) adopted on the Crosswagon Q4. The heart of this project is the 'Alfa Romeo Q4 four-wheel drive' system which splits torque constantly and dynamically between the four wheels, reaching the highest levels of active safety and sportiness. The Torsen C self-locking central differential manages the drive torque in the best possible way, sending about 57% to the rear wheels and 43% to the front. The system also guarantees excellent traction in all grip conditions by automatically checking any slipping.<p>The car's dynamic behaviour is controlled by a number of sophisticated electronic systems. VDC first of all, which guarantees absolute control over the car in all conditions, no matter how extreme, with a sporty calibration worthy of a true Alfa, whose chassis guarantees superb roadholding: VDC lets the driver enjoy his control over the vehicle and never intervenes intrusively. On the other hand, when he changes down suddenly in poor grip conditions, MSR (Motor Schleppmoment Regelung) intervenes, giving torque back to the engine to prevent skidding due to wheel lock. The other systems that supplement VDC are: ASR (Anti Slip Regulation), HBA (Hydraulic Brake Assistance) which intervenes during emergency braking, the ABS system complete with EBD, and the Hill Holder for hill starts. Active safety is also enhanced by sophisticated bi-xenon headlights.<p><B>Technology to enhance well-being on board</B><p>The new model features important exclusive equipment that increases comfort: Cruise control, rain, dusk and parking sensors (front and rear), satellite navigator with maps (even with 'bird's eye view' display), voice controls and a built-in GSM hands-free telephone, automatic climate control with dual or tri-zone distribution and temperature, a radio-CD player (including MP3 files) and 10-disc CD-Changer, a BOSE Hi-Fi Sound System with AutoPilot for automatic sound compensation and a central speaker on the facia for better acoustics, seats with electrical adjustment, folding rear seats and push-button ignition on the console.

Tidal
02-21-2005, 04:11 PM
It looks great, but i'm a bit disappointed somehow... the front looks the same as in the Brera, which is good, love the door handles, that little crease on the trunk... but the original 156 was SO beautiful. It was launched here in Portugal back in 97, i remember watching them pass by from my highschool's window, dreaming my classes away... This is really great, don't get me wrong, but imo it doesn't have the wow factor the 156 had.<br>oh, and why 159? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DVieira at 11:35 PM 2/21/2005</i>

CalinG7
02-21-2005, 04:34 PM
Oh, they better bring it here to the US. I agree with DVieira that it doesn't take my breath away, but it's beautiful nonetheless, more beautiful than most cars on the roads here. The rear is the best view IMO.

ToronadoGT
02-21-2005, 05:18 PM
I doubt this car is coming to U.S. soil now. Since GM terminated its partnership with <I>FIAT</I>, Alfa's parent company, <I>FIAT</I> has no outlets to sell these cars at. When <I>FIAT</I> was with GM, the orignal idea was to sell the cars through SAAB dealers. <p>But, you know, if you were living in the U.S. at the time the press printed the story, you probably could tell that <I>FIAT</I> was giving empty promises because of all the set backs and other crap. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> I guess the only way a Yank can lay hands on one of these is to import it and go through all of the govermental crap to make it legal. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0">

Gian86
02-21-2005, 05:25 PM
OMG!!!!!! That looks very beautiful car. More better than 156. the rear end looks mad and the design of 159 looks more nicer.

Gian86
02-21-2005, 05:40 PM
More pics of Brera here:<p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%201.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...1.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%202.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...2.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%203.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...3.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%204.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...4.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%205.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...5.jpg</A><p><A HREF="http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/AutoScoops/Nieuws/Alfa%20Brera%20high%20res%206.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://stuwww.uvt.nl/~s828282/...6.jpg</A><p>Source: Autoscoops (originaly found from Italiaspeed.com)<p>No interior pictures yet. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Gian05 at 10:47 AM 2/22/2005</i>

ricerammer
02-21-2005, 07:07 PM
that car is pure sex. I love Alfas.

SV
02-21-2005, 07:35 PM
wow, the design is near-perfect. i really hope they bring it to the US.

ll0ll
02-22-2005, 01:56 AM
I doubt this car will get a 5 star euroncap score, the doorhandlers are not the right type..<br>What a beautifull car..

Reppu
02-22-2005, 02:39 AM
This car is very effective in what an Alfa is supposed to be: sexy. However, it's very evolutive, and not as ground-breaking as it's predeccesor. I hope it's a lot roomier than the 156, because it's one of my candidates....(hopefully this summer)

Top Secret
02-22-2005, 03:24 AM
I personally don't like it - purely based on the fact that it looks too similar to the 156. I had hoped it was more of a revolutionary change, although head and taillights look sweet.

pandorama
02-22-2005, 03:51 AM
Yeah, just an evolution, but in the wrong way if oy ask me... It's not very dynamic (especially the side) and it really looks like a copy of the 156. But this car is really nice, i was just hoping for something more distinctive...

Fafa
02-22-2005, 04:35 AM
The original copies the copy...<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autotitre.com/forum/up/7683f42eec.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.grafickytuning.cz/img/nase-prace/cord_zez_orig.jpeg" BORDER="0"><p>Da Silva's influence is too much extended. I'm disapointed by this car: It will be hard to distinguish it from the former re-styled 156.

Ash_Barrett
02-22-2005, 05:21 AM
I find it : gorgeous, sexy, very beautiful !! A very great Alfa Romeo : I want one !!<p>This is definitively more beautiful than a crappy Seat which copied Alfa style first. Maybe Da Silva isn't as good as I thought...

tyter1
02-22-2005, 06:27 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pandorama</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, just an evolution, but in the wrong way if oy ask me... It's not very dynamic (especially the side) and it really looks like a copy of the 156. But this car is really nice, i was just hoping for something more distinctive...</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Audi, Mercedes and BMW always did new models that did not break with the past, not to mention VW ... while Italians have always changed dramatically their models, even the most succesful<br>Considering that:<br>- German strategy proved to be winning<br>- 156 had a wonderful design but some defaults (space for back seats and building quality)<br>this time Alfa is evolving lightly the design and is trying to solve the problems<br>photos could be misleding, but 159 is bigger than 156<br>all the proportions of the car changed (just consider that the distance between wheels is 2,80m - press release states 2,70 but it is a mistake)<br>so good luck Alfa, this car is stunning in my opinion even if not so revolutionary as 156 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>but it will be a blessing for Alfa dealers and balance sheet<br>and now that Alfa and Maserati fall under the same Luxury Unit .....

iakovos
02-22-2005, 10:20 AM
This is one GREAT DESIGN !!<p>and it is coming to US via Maserati/Ferrari dealerships... though.. you Americans have to wait w more years until 2007 for it... as they want to organize the dealerships and introduce it with the new Spider.<p>This like the 156.... only Alfa-Romeo has matured now, great design , great engines/transmissions are now matched by good build quality

AXIS
02-22-2005, 11:43 AM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> Why do we have to wait till 2007 whyeeeeeeeeeee!!!

syclone
02-22-2005, 02:16 PM
yaaaaaawn... did they change the 156 or just rename it? almost as disappointing as the new miata... almost.

rasmien
02-22-2005, 03:01 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>tyter1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> (just consider that the distance between wheels is 2,80m - press release states 2,70 but it is a mistake)<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Whaaaaaat?!<p>BTW: Is the V6 a screwed-up-again 30 years old Alfa V6, brand-new Alfa, GM-Holden or what?

Tidal
02-22-2005, 03:53 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rasmien</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>BTW: Is the V6 a screwed-up-again 30 years old Alfa V6, brand-new Alfa, GM-Holden or what?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's a GM engine, same as in the Brera

J-Gian
02-23-2005, 01:48 PM
It is based on a GM Motor, the HFV6 Global, but it is adapted by Alfa: the head of the motor is new and it is direct injection.

Buster
02-23-2005, 05:51 PM
The 159 is easily the best looking sedan on the market. No wonder Alfa wants to come back to the US. The new 3 is dumpy. The CClass is oh so establishment. The A4 should sue its plastic surgeon. Asian makes? Ha! The 156 was good, but the 159 is a car that actually could conquer the American market.

ll0ll
02-24-2005, 03:00 AM
<IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/6356/grigio4rq.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/6964/grigios1gi.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/1682/bronzo9sh.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/7456/rossa2ip.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/3871/bianca8bc.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img236.exs.cx/img236/6229/nera2jr.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>My god, this thing is beautiful!

Reppu
02-24-2005, 05:17 AM
hard choice...even in white it's wonderful

spwolf
02-24-2005, 05:27 AM
this car would do sooo much better in the US, if priced ok... It looks good, but I have hoped to see it changed more - afterall i see 156's all the time here, it is hard to get excited about this.<p>In the US, it would be crazily awesome, with standard torsen-c, best awd in the world :-). Selling some cars in the US would give Fiat much needed breathing space in their factories...

r0b
02-24-2005, 11:42 AM
Wagon version:<p> <IMG SRC="http://img117.exs.cx/img117/4090/alfa159wagon5gc.jpg" BORDER="0">

J-Gian
02-24-2005, 04:59 PM
It is a photoshop the wagon version.

iakovos
02-25-2005, 05:32 PM
These coloured ones are very nice... but where is the a dark blue ??? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0">

mzoltarp
02-26-2005, 07:38 AM
It's drop dead gorgeous and it's stupid that Fiat can't get a clue and get it to the United States. I've come close to owning an Alfa Romeo twice. The first was the Milano (75), but I went with a Jetta GLI 16V. The second was a 164, but I went with an Audi 80 instead. I will not make the mistake a third time. I'd love to drive an Alfa.

Gian86
02-27-2005, 01:43 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>J-Gian</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is based on a GM Motor, the HFV6 Global, but it is adapted by Alfa: the head of the motor is new and it is direct injection. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, this engine will be made in holden's engine factory in melbourne. It would be bit different version than current model engine that is use on VZ Commodore. I can't wait to see what the next engine looks like.

drugmirko
02-27-2005, 01:00 PM
it's kind of nice to peek on to the real thing in and not processed oficial photos. how come nobody posted it?<p><A HREF="http://img87.exs.cx/img87/9646/brera24sn.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img87.exs.cx/img87/9646/brera24sn.jpg</A><p>found on cochespias.tk

J-Gian
02-27-2005, 02:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Gian05</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[...] I can't wait to see what the next engine looks like. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>I'm a bit worried... Voices say that they are covered with a cover in plastics. Nothing like the old 6V... <br>Anyway... they are new!

Tidal
02-27-2005, 02:12 PM
Nice... and two 159s on the back too

ll0ll
02-28-2005, 01:59 AM
Found them at autoscoops.be, source: autotematic.com<p><IMG SRC="http://www.bitabout.info/public/imagesforum/int159.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.bitabout.info/public/imagesforum/159vera.jpg" BORDER="0">

LSS_C6
02-28-2005, 03:33 AM
This is a car that has all the qualities and the status to substitute the 156, including an outstanding beauty!

LSS_C6
02-28-2005, 03:36 AM
beleza pura!! Pure beauty!! Amazing! Alfa Romeo is on top of car design!

Reppu
02-28-2005, 04:19 AM
Looks like it will have start/stop button and access card.....soon the conventional keys will be as forgotten as the carburators.

MrMGMan
02-28-2005, 04:24 PM
The dashboard looks a bit 'flat' and unappealing. I think it would look better if it bulged out slightly towards the driver like the current 147/GTA dashboard does.

Gian86
03-01-2005, 06:14 PM
Brera<p><IMG SRC="http://www.thecarlounge.net/gallery/albums//Events/International%20Auto%20Shows/Geneva/2005/Alfa%20Romeo/016.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>159<p><IMG SRC="http://www.thecarlounge.net/gallery/albums//Events/International%20Auto%20Shows/Geneva/2005/Alfa%20Romeo/030.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Source: thecarlounge.net

piokor
03-01-2005, 06:35 PM
Why are the interiors almost exactly the same?

Gian86
03-01-2005, 09:40 PM
Really, i don't know proabily Brera is coupe version of 159. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

Reppu
03-02-2005, 12:43 AM
OM, what a dissapointment!! Alfa demonstrated with the 147 they know how to design a dashboard. What happened this time? It's ugly and looks sooooo dated.

ll0ll
03-02-2005, 12:48 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_geneva/alfa159/images/IMG_1328.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_geneva/alfa159/images/IMG_1329.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_geneva/alfa159/images/IMG_1327.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autopareri.com/IMG/jpg/IMG_2116.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autopareri.com/IMG/jpg/IMG_2123.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img97.exs.cx/img97/1039/bb1a61cf929dm.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img97.exs.cx/img97/9711/8d4c3e5bb88ei.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img97.exs.cx/img97/1603/feec8bfdc47ng.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img97.exs.cx/img97/3838/c89bbb6c699tl.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/65426.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><br><A HREF="http://img224.exs.cx/img224/6692/9017daa24a3zl.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img224.exs.cx/img224/6692/9017daa24a3zl.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/4995/72d4f2650d5cz.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/4995/72d4f2650d5cz.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/756/94344f11585rc.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/756/94344f11585rc.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1301/25551122ed0om.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1301/25551122ed0om.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/9784/6772646f073kq.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/9784/6772646f073kq.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/2754/035cd21a346pt.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/2754/035cd21a346pt.jpg</A><br><A HREF="http://img100.exs.cx/img100/4023/9386e4b89f0os.jpg" TARGET="_blank">http://img100.exs.cx/img100/4023/9386e4b89f0os.jpg</A><p>Love the front-fender.<p><br><i>Modified by ll0ll at 12:03 AM 3/2/2005</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by ll0ll at 12:14 AM 3/2/2005</i>

Hornbag
03-02-2005, 01:06 AM
Inside is hideous, so flat and boring its not funnie.<p>The red picture looks great tho...very athletic and dramitic

Gian86
03-02-2005, 01:16 AM
finally, the all new v6 engine made by holden. Someone must put australian flag for this. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>

Tidal
03-02-2005, 06:20 AM
[QUOTE=ll0ll<br><IMG SRC="http://www.autopareri.com/IMG/jpg/IMG_2116.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autopareri.com/IMG/jpg/IMG_2123.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>[/QUOTE]<p>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/crying.gif" BORDER="0"> They could at least have tried to make it look good, like a Alfa V6 should look like... man, that is so depressing...<p>As for the interior, again, looks good, but the 156 was a lot sexier.

RikfromBelgium
03-02-2005, 08:02 AM
seems to me like 2 things most Alfa-lovers were very proud of ( the interior and engine-looks ) are gone.

J-Gian
03-02-2005, 06:13 PM
Do you like these? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><IMG SRC="http://www.quadrifoglio.ch/coppermine/albums/upload/2005/autosalon05/159/DSC00362.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.quadrifoglio.ch/coppermine/albums/upload/2005/autosalon05/159/DSC00363.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><I>From <A HREF="http://www.quadrifoglio.ch" TARGET="_blank">http://www.quadrifoglio.ch</A> seen at <A HREF="http://www.autopareri.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autopareri.com</A></I>

syclone
03-02-2005, 07:54 PM
I like the wood one because it reminds me of old alfa gtv's and spyders. not to keen on the carbon fibre - looks silly

Reppu
03-03-2005, 12:21 AM
Then gimme silliness

ll0ll
03-04-2005, 08:43 AM
<IMG SRC="http://img11.exs.cx/img11/418/159dash0re.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I like it. A lot!

JBlair
03-04-2005, 09:08 AM
Now THAT looks hot! Still a little square, but the colors are gorgeous. Now when is Alfa planning on returning.............I'm gonna start saving up now.

Omar
03-04-2005, 09:57 AM
have Alpha's always had interiors angled towards the driver? I've never paid much attention previously to them.<br><IMG SRC="http://img11.exs.cx/img11/418/159dash0re.jpg" BORDER="0">

iakovos
03-04-2005, 04:45 PM
The previous 159 segment (156 did)<p>Series 1<br> <IMG SRC="http://www.italiaspeed.com/newmodels_156facelift_22.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br>Series 2<br><IMG SRC="http://www.sportiva.co.uk/images/gd52dash.jpg" BORDER="0"> <p><br>Also, I don't know if the 159 is like that, but the 156 has something amazing.<br>The two barrels with the rpm and speedo reading are really really deep in<br>so, your wife doesn't know how fast you are going <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

syclone
03-04-2005, 09:07 PM
the more i look at it, the more i think, what a perfect... saab

J-Gian
03-05-2005, 03:13 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the more i look at it, the more i think, what a perfect... saab</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Why Saab?

syclone
03-05-2005, 04:00 PM
somehting about the looks... the dash mainly. overall, the car just rubs me as slightly quirky and not in any way beautiful, but fun - which old saabs to do.

Gromit
03-06-2005, 04:53 AM
The dark (ie 2-tone) interior looks MUCH better than the pale one.<p>I like it. It could never be anything other than an Alfa interior (although hopefully the bits are well-attached this time around...).