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Philsshon
01-01-2005, 10:00 PM
<IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022276__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022273__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br> <IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010177693_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022267__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022265__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022266__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>

NarutoRamen
01-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Looks like a PT Cruiser rip-off...very unoriginal<p>It's like the SUV version of the PT Cruiser...and UGLIER than the PT cruiser by far.

jijboi25
01-01-2005, 10:39 PM
That interior is so uninspired.... Not a bit of nostalgia in it unlike the PT Cruiser. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/angry.gif" BORDER="0"> Looks a little strange too.

knicks125
01-01-2005, 10:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>NarutoRamen</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like a PT Cruiser rip-off...very unoriginal<p>It's like the SUV version of the PT Cruiser...and UGLIER than the PT cruiser by far.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>My thoughts exactly... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Not a big fan of the PT curiser but this is even worst <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0">

autodanse
01-01-2005, 11:15 PM
that is the drabbest interior i have ever seen!! what's with chevy's obsession with gray on gray color schemes?<p>anyone else think the roofline in this second pic looks like the CSV's??<br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022273__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/ava561/gross.jpg" BORDER="0">

jro4566
01-01-2005, 11:27 PM
The trunk looks smaller than the PT Cruiser's....huh.

jijboi25
01-01-2005, 11:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>autodanse</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is the drabbest interior i have ever seen!! what's with chevy's obsession with gray on gray color schemes?<p>anyone else think the roofline in this second pic looks like the CSV's??<br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022273__.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/ava561/gross.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yea I noticed that too. Is this car built on the same platform as t he CSVs or is it a different platform?

knihc2008
01-02-2005, 12:20 AM
car looks so huge but trunk space looks so small! don't honestly know where this one fits and what its competition is going to be..

62Lincoln
01-02-2005, 05:46 AM
It is built on the new Cobalt chassis with a 170 hp 4 cylinder engine. It was designed by Bryan Nesbitt, who did the PT at Chrysler before being hired by GM. Imagine that!

ChrisDyson
01-02-2005, 06:33 AM
I like the Dodge inspired tail lights as well <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">

JOKEJOE
01-02-2005, 07:23 AM
HHR WEST COAST CUSTOMS<p><IMG SRC="http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/6562346367956546.JPG" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/4203323787710755.JPG" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2982334800144201.JPG" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/1376262273872473.JPG" BORDER="0"><p><br>JOKEJOE<br>

Charger
01-02-2005, 08:11 AM
That is just disgusting <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>It looked better with the camo on

Speedstick
01-02-2005, 09:12 AM
It's like PT Cruiser meets Dodge Durango.<p>It's supposed to look like this - the 1949 Chevy Suburban. I can see some similarities, but mostly it looks like something that's been done already (the Cruiser). If they used a version of round headlights (like the SSR) I think it would have helped differentiate it in looks quite a bit.<p><IMG SRC="http://www.elivermore.com/photos/Events/carshow03_02.jpg" BORDER="0">

Alx1rl
01-02-2005, 10:23 AM
not bad, looks like a PT cruiser but much nicer... Cool looking for a mid size suv.

ricerammer
01-02-2005, 10:44 AM
It looks better than I originally thought, but still it's ugly. I love the Pontiac Vibe steering wheel with the rental car interior. And oh boy, the WCC sure looks tight. *laff*

Clayton-Thomas
01-02-2005, 11:10 AM
I really do hate GM but I actually like it. good job Chevy.

Dan J.
01-02-2005, 11:15 AM
This "car' is late to the retro party. A party that was over a long time ago in my opinion. From the photos of the interior I agree it is pretty uninspired but alot better that what Chevy interiors used to look like. Maybe it is the rental beige color but it doesn't do much for me. So this will compete with the PT Cruiser, Matrix/Vibe, Element, Mazda5? I personally would have preferred the Kappa based Nomad over this box with bulges. <p>After a second look of the interior it looks like a combination of Ion, Cobalt, Equinox anyone notice the Equinox interior door handles? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0">

RS
01-02-2005, 11:56 AM
I hate West Coast Customs. They just replaced vinyl with even shinier vinyl. Who the hell wants vinyl? Disguisting and cheap!<p>I agree that this should have come out 10 years ago.

hwrd_roark
01-02-2005, 12:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RS Genesis</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate West Coast Customs. They just replaced vinyl with even shinier vinyl. Who the hell wants vinyl? Disguisting and cheap!<p>I agree that this should have come out 10 years ago. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What is the deal with all of those LCD monitors? There are 3 of them just for the front passengers alone. Good thing there is one in the trunk in case you ever need to watch rap videos while loading groceries.<p>I hate WCC too. The popularity of "Pimp My Ride" makes me want to <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> .

Speedstick
01-02-2005, 12:57 PM
Uh - that's probably leather.

Rugbyplaya91
01-02-2005, 01:36 PM
i like the west coast customs version...<p> tv's and lcd monitors are for the cool factor..<p>haha but what do i know?

Dodger
01-02-2005, 02:33 PM
Will this thing actually sell? The retro SSR isn't doing too hot. I know the HHR will be cheaper but will that be enough to sell? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
01-02-2005, 02:57 PM
the only reason the ssr doesnt sell to hot is because it is way overpriced...I'm sure this will sell with a starting price of 23k...<p>More pics (gives you an idea of the SIZE of the HHR): <p><IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010176086_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010176106_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010175919_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>

hwrd_roark
01-02-2005, 03:27 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br><IMG SRC="http://i.tnpv.us/2005/WKA200501/WKA2005010175919_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Oh good, they put more TV screens in the back. I was afraid they didn't have enough in there. Good to see there is one that faces forward, so when someone in the front seat turns around to talk to someone in the back seat he won't miss a second of the movie.<p>Notice that those screens were put in at the expense of an arm rest and cupholders.

SV
01-02-2005, 03:55 PM
hm, this car's OK, but way too similar to the PT Cruiser, and that interior...there's something about it, it just has this aura of cheapness <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0">

The Water Is Poison
01-02-2005, 04:23 PM
Is this replacing the trailblazer?

knicks125
01-02-2005, 05:16 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>...DamagedProphet...</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this replacing the trailblazer?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>God I hope not...<p>Is it?<p>At least the trailblazer has its own distinct styling.

piokor
01-02-2005, 06:03 PM
No, this isn't replacing the Trailblazer. This isn't even an SUV. Think of this as a wagon version of the Cobalt. Anyway, I'd choose this over a PT Cruiser (mainly because it's newer), but I don't like it too much...

kevinb120
01-02-2005, 08:49 PM
Heh everyone has the PT covered already. Is it just me or does every 'new' GM spark two quick reactions. First-how can styling in the new century from GM possibly look any more off the mark and simply 'unpollished', and Second-what did they rebody this time?

Naga Royal Guard
01-02-2005, 09:06 PM
LOL, the cobalt if ur wondering

kevinb120
01-02-2005, 09:12 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL, the cobalt if ur wondering</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Seriously?<p>Oh brother, so the PT worked for a few years a while back, so why not this thing? Is that their thinking?? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> I wonder if Avis will buy em...

NarutoRamen
01-02-2005, 11:24 PM
Who ever buys this car should be ashamed of themselves....and I'm not looking forward to seeing this thing on the road...because I will puke everytime I see one...this thing is hideous

AXLE
01-03-2005, 02:53 AM
LOL <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> SO MANY TV SCREENS <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0">

AM2
01-03-2005, 03:58 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>NarutoRamen</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like a PT Cruiser rip-off...very unoriginal<p>It's like the SUV version of the PT Cruiser...and UGLIER than the PT cruiser by far.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'm waiting for the PT Cruiser to get a facelift... I think the HHR isn't that bad. By the way, Bryan Nesbitt the designer of the PT Cruiser did the designer of the HHR. <p>"It should come as no surprise that PT Cruiser-designer Bryan Nesbitt had a hand in the HHR, though the Chevrolet will be positioned above the Chrylser product in size and price." - Motor Trend<p><br>

Redline
01-03-2005, 09:20 AM
Nick, the starting price for this is going to be less that 23 grand. That will probably be the cost of a higher end one, just look at the Cobalts prices. As for the vehicle itself and no specific posts, I think its pretty interesting and other than the fact that its a retro wagon I see no PT Cruiser in it at all. Not to mention the interior looks much better and higher quality than that of the PT and while the tails may seem rip-offish look at the old Suburbans.

ricerammer
01-03-2005, 09:45 AM
I would have to agree there.

syclone
01-03-2005, 09:55 AM
interor quality looks alright, but hopefully it will be available in a color scheme other than all that grey - it just looks so drab

ricerammer
01-03-2005, 10:08 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>hwrd_roark</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the deal with all of those LCD monitors? There are 3 of them just for the front passengers alone. Good thing there is one in the trunk in case you ever need to watch rap videos while loading groceries.<p>I hate WCC too. The popularity of "Pimp My Ride" makes me want to <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> .</TD></TR></TABLE> <p>I must agree. Pimp my ride = ruin my ride. Oh yea, I wanna watch Ludacris while loading groceries. I bet the family pet would LOVE to have Nelly singing to him. <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by ricerammer at 9:14 AM 1/3/2005</i>

Santeno
01-03-2005, 12:57 PM
A repost and more pics from AMS:<p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/01_450.74569.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/02_450.74571.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/07_450.74581.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/08_450.74583.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/09_450.74585.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/03_450.74573.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/04_450.74575.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/05_450.74577.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/06_450.74579.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Article (in german):<p><A HREF="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/73726/d_ams_news_special_ha" TARGET="_blank">http://www.auto-motor-und-spor...al_ha</A><br>

Santeno
01-03-2005, 01:03 PM
Here's a [ress release hosted by AutoIndex:<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chevy HHR brings customizable fun and functionality to the compact segment <p><br>Chevrolet has issued the following press release: <p>Chevrolet unveiled the production model of the 2006 HHR, a unique vehicle that combines styling and interior adaptability to create a vehicle suited to all lifestyles. Chevy introduced the HHR at the 2005 Greater Los Angeles Auto Show, the spiritual home of the custom car. <p>The HHR has a distinct design that fuses elements of the 1949 Chevy Suburban – the original utility vehicle – and the SSR roadster. It is built on the same solid platform as the new Chevy Cobalt. The HHR will be available in the second half of 2005. <p>With its overall length of 174.5 inches (4472 mm) and a cargo capacity of approximately 63.1cubic feet (1787 liters), the five-passenger HHR has easy-to-maneuver dimensions and room for just about any lifestyle interest. Its reconfigurable interior with clever storage solutions accommodates everything from groceries to surfboards. <p>HHR rounds out Chevrolet’s small-vehicle strategy that began last year with the successful Aveo – a vehicle which recently claimed the leadership position in its segment after just nine months on the market – and continues this year with Cobalt. <p>Well-equipped models <br>=HHR comes well equipped from the factory with two model levels: LS and LT. The LT also comes in two packages – 1LT and 2LT. The LS and 1LT are powered by an Ecotec 2.2L four-cylinder rated at 140 horsepower (104 kw) and 150 lb.-ft. of torque (207 Nm). An Ecotec 2.4L four-cylinder is standard in the 2LT and is available in the 1LT; it delivers 170 horsepower (126 kw) and 170 lb.-ft. of torque (235 Nm). A five-speed manual transmission is standard and an electronically controlled four-speed automatic is available in all models. <p>Style <br>HHR is a four-door vehicle with a rear touch-pad liftgate. Its high roof evokes the look of the innovative 1949 Chevy Suburban, while other exterior cues carry the expressive attributes of the SSR roadster – all unmistakably Chevy traits. <p>Like the SSR, the HHR features deep-draw, flared fenders which tuck in at the rockers for a solid, firmly-planted stance. A one-piece, stamped metal hood is reminiscent of the ’49 Suburban’s heritage and is evidence of precise assembly quality. More quality touches are found in the single-cavity headlamp design, which incorporates jeweled lighting effects, as well as a flared, twin-taillamp design in the rear that creates a look that is half street machine and half vintage Corvette. Stamped door and window appearances with a one-piece wraparound molding contribute to the clean, detailed design and are uncommon in contemporary vehicles. The HHR’s rear window is flush with the body side. <p>The outside mirrors are integrated into the overall design theme for a more custom appearance, and the available integrated roof racks are designed to retain the HHR’s overall aesthetic. The HHR also incorporates contemporary Chevy styling cues, including a prominent cross-grille bar with a Bowtie logo. <p>Haul, store, pack more <br>Like the rest of the vehicle, the HHR’s interior combines the reassuring high visibility and cargo flexibility of an SUV with the comfort, appointments, driving ease and ergonomics of an upscale sedan. The high roof provides excellent headroom and creates a more open, airy environment, while the instrument cluster carries the heritage theme of the vehicle. <p>The HHR’s interior evokes a feeling of roominess and an upscale aura is created by detailed, jewel-like instrument displays and chrome accents. Interior color combinations feature darker colors on upper sections of the interior and lighter colors for lower sections. Quality also is conveyed in the tailored seats, which provide firmer support, sculpture and plenty of comfort for long drives. <p>HHR also has standard air conditioning, providing comfortable levels of airflow, cooling capability and reduced cool-down time. The system is designed to provide efficient side-window defogging and enhanced rear-window defogging. <p>Complementing the HHR’s comfortable and expressive interior is a highly adaptable cargo system, which maximizes storage capability with a host of clever and useful configuration options. <p>The rear seats have a 60/40-split, which fold to form a flat load surface in conjunction with the folded front passenger seat. The 60-percent side was thoughtfully positioned on the passenger side, enabling wider objects to be placed in the vehicle securely. <p>Powertrain details <br>HHR relies on the renowned Ecotec family of technologically sophisticated inline four-cylinder engines, which balances usable power with fuel and emissions efficiency. Both the 2.2L engine and 2.4L engines in the HHR have distinct performance and hardware differences <p>Transmissions include a standard Getrag F23 five-speed manual transmission or an available Hydra-Matic 4T45-E electronically controlled four-speed automatic, which are available with both engines. The F23 five-speed manual transmission delivers smoothness and durability, with all gears – including reverse – featuring synchronization. Final gearing of the transmission varies between 2.2L and 2.4L applications to optimize the performance of both. <p>The available 4T45-E is a smooth-shifting, highly durable automatic transmission. Like the F23 manual transmission, there are calibration differences to optimize the performance of 2.2L-equipped models and 2.4L-equippped models. <p>Strong body structure provides a quiet ride <br>HHR is built on the same robust GM Small Car structure as the recently introduced Chevy Cobalt. <p>Extensive use of high-strength steel and ultra-high-strength steel in key structural components, including ultra-high-strength steel rocker panels and cross-car reinforcing beam, bolsters the vehicle’s rigid feel while providing additional side-impact support. The cockpit “safety cage” provides load-carrying protection and, along with laser-welded blanks used in the door frames, front doors and rear doors, contributes to the HHR’s excellent NVH characteristics and precision build quality. <p>Responsive suspensions <br>HHR’s uses a MacPherson strut front suspension design, along with a semi-independent, torsion beam rear suspension and five-lug wheels. Two suspension systems are available: FE1 suspension standard on LS and 1LT, with an FE3 suspension standard on LT models. The FE1 suspension is tuned for a softer ride and includes 16-inch wheels, while the FE3 provides sportier handling traits and offers standard 17-inch wheels and monotube shocks, which provide better ride and handling. <p>All models are equipped with rack-and-pinion steering with electric power steering (EPS) – a speed-sensitive, variable-effort system that is tuned to match the performance characteristics of two separate suspension settings. EPS eliminates the use of an engine-driven power steering pump, as well as the corresponding fluid reservoir and plumbing, reducing both fuel consumption and the potential source of an environmental contaminant. <p>Brakes consist of large front discs and rear drums, with ABS and traction control standard on 2LT models (traction control only available with automatic transmission) and available on LS and 1LT models. <p>Safety and security <br>Occupant safety bolstered by the following: <p>Driver and front passenger frontal air bags <br>Front safety belt pretensioners <br>Rear seat center lap-shoulder belts and the LATCH child seat retention system <br>Available head curtain side air bags for front- and rear-seat outboard passengers. <br>Available OnStar with Advanced Automatic Crash Notification (AACN) </TD></TR></TABLE>

velsatis
01-04-2005, 07:50 AM
When the PT-Cruiser came I loved it and still do, for it's originality, retro-look and beauty, but this??? It's just a replica!!! a copy, are they so empty of ideas at GM????Do they need some <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
01-04-2005, 10:54 AM
first of all, the designer who designed the PT also designed the HHR which is why it looks similar styling wise...but if you guys wait to see it in real life you will notice the HHR is substantially larger than the PT, and just by comparing side by side shots you can easily tell these two vehicles are very different...this is based off a '49 suburban, look at a side shot of a 49, and then look at a side shot of this...you can pick out some major similarities...the hhr and pt are two different types of vehicles...the HHR being more SUV-like and the PT being more hatchback/sedan/wagon-like...there is plenty of market for this type of vehicle still, especially considering the HHR will be starting in the low teens iirc...and anyways, I think a vehicle should be judged all around instead of by looks alone...everyone is always ready to jump on GM's case when they bring out a new product...why dont you all just take a chill pill, sit back, relax, and then judge once you finally see the vehicle in real life and get to experience it for yourselves...

knicks125
01-04-2005, 11:51 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first of all, the designer who designed the PT also designed the HHR which is why it looks similar styling wise...but if you guys wait to see it in real life you will notice the HHR is substantially larger than the PT, and just by comparing side by side shots you can easily tell these two vehicles are very different...this is based off a '49 suburban, look at a side shot of a 49, and then look at a side shot of this...you can pick out some major similarities...the hhr and pt are two different types of vehicles...the HHR being more SUV-like and the PT being more hatchback/sedan/wagon-like...there is plenty of market for this type of vehicle still, especially considering the HHR will be starting in the low teens iirc...and anyways, I think a vehicle should be judged all around instead of by looks alone...everyone is always ready to jump on GM's case when they bring out a new product...why dont you all just take a chill pill, sit back, relax, and then judge once you finally see the vehicle in real life and get to experience it for yourselves...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nick, we all know that the HHR is larger than the PT, there is no need to re-explain, we can see it from the pics.<p>As far as styling cues go, this car and the PT are very similar. Although I am very disappointed to hear the designer for the HHR was the same for the PT. I can't believe this person couldn't come up anything new but had to borrow pretty much the whole front grille of the PT (no originality whatsoever). I saw the PT already and I don't want to see it again, this car should've been released at the same time the PT did <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Nick, don't worry, everyone here is chilled, relaxed and doing just fine - we are all just giving feedbacks to the car. Also, you said interior looks nice - that may be the case, when we see the final product, but car is not purely judged on its interior, exterior, looks, appeal and everything else on the car also need to be reviewed.

DaDesign
01-04-2005, 11:53 AM
This Car reminds me of old timers prison police cars, if you know what im talking about.

Santeno
01-04-2005, 12:18 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first of all, the designer who designed the PT also designed the HHR which is why it looks similar styling wise...but if you guys wait to see it in real life you will notice the HHR is substantially larger than the PT, and just by comparing side by side shots you can easily tell these two vehicles are very different...this is based off a '49 suburban, look at a side shot of a 49, and then look at a side shot of this...you can pick out some major similarities...the hhr and pt are two different types of vehicles...the HHR being more SUV-like and the PT being more hatchback/sedan/wagon-like...there is plenty of market for this type of vehicle still, especially considering the HHR will be starting in the low teens iirc...and anyways, I think a vehicle should be judged all around instead of by looks alone...everyone is always ready to jump on GM's case when they bring out a new product...why dont you all just take a chill pill, sit back, relax, and then judge once you finally see the vehicle in real life and get to experience it for yourselves...</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Larger, yes, substantially, not really. Most of the added space is in the cargo area. otherwise they are in similar market categories. As for this being "SUV like", again, wrong. There is nothing suv like about it (other than it being styled to resemble the '49 suburban - as you pointed out). This vehicle is drastically smaller than the suburban it is meant to resemble. It's also FWD, car based, and only comes with 4 cyl engines. It's more of a small MPV in old suburban garb than anything else.<p>Sadly even though it is a nice vehicle, It resembles the PT in both design and concept far too closely. After initial interest wears off (which because of the PT, I don't expect to be too long), I see this car languishing in dealer lots. I hope I'm wrong, but something tells me that GM made it to the dance 5 years too late.

megadethmartyr
01-04-2005, 01:31 PM
Can't wait to drive one from my local car rental company...hell, they probably won't even buy these.

Redline
01-04-2005, 01:46 PM
Wait a minute, the gill is the same? Lets compare.<p>HHR<br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/01_450.74569.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>PT<br><IMG SRC="http://familycar.com/RoadTests/ChryslerPTCruiser/Images2004/LeftFront.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>As for the rear and sides...<p>HHR<br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/02_450.74571.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>PT<br><IMG SRC="http://familycar.com/RoadTests/ChryslerPTCruiser/Images2004/LeftRear2.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>So lets compare, from the front, one is boxy and nearly flat nosed, while the other looks like its trying to be a Prowler, from the side, one is upright with boxy fenders and has three real windows, while the other is low and curvy with fenders like look like they were shaped for a bicycle with two and a quarter windows. As for the back, one is flat, while the other curves foward to flow with the rest of the design. So aside from the fact that they are both retro wagons based off of small cars, there are really no similarities if you actually compare them.

Nick
01-04-2005, 02:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Larger, yes, substantially, not really. Most of the added space is in the cargo area. otherwise they are in similar market categories. As for this being "SUV like", again, wrong. There is nothing suv like about it (other than it being styled to resemble the '49 suburban - as you pointed out). This vehicle is drastically smaller than the suburban it is meant to resemble. It's also FWD, car based, and only comes with 4 cyl engines. It's more of a small MPV in old suburban garb than anything else.<p>Sadly even though it is a nice vehicle, It resembles the PT in both design and concept far too closely. After initial interest wears off (which because of the PT, I don't expect to be too long), I see this car languishing in dealer lots. I hope I'm wrong, but something tells me that GM made it to the dance 5 years too late.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>what isn't "suv" about it? Just because it is based of a car chassis? Aren't crossover SUV's based on car chassis? they are no more than cars given a more truckish appearance, so who says this isnt an SUV? What defines an SUV? Does an SUV have to be rwd/v8/ 20 ft long and 6 ft wide? Whatever IMO it looks like an suv, but i guess it is more of a cobalt wagon than anything else...it doesnt matter whether or not its an SUV, I just keep getting different people saying different things so i really dont know whats what anymore <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> ...but seriously...you guys need to take a look at it and really compare it to the PT...Knicks, you stated that the grills are exactly the same...from what I can see the grilles are shaped totally differently...the only things that these two vehicles really share is the fact that they are retro...they both borrow styling cues from the 30's/40's, so if you really want to get into it, any retro vehicle you are going to make will have some similarities to any other retro vehicle on the market...the same could be said for cars today, infact styling today has come to the point where most cars are starting to look the same, you people jsut dont notice it as much because the styling of everything is more bland as compared to retro styled vehciles which can be more easily scrutinized, and i guess i didnt use the right wording when i said the HHR was substantially larger than the PT, while it isn't substantially larger, it is about 6 inches longer, and a bit larger in size than the PT. For those who say it is a blatant ripoff of the PT, while I admit that they are both designed by the same person, you can easily tell there are different traits in each...the HHR having pretty much all retro chevy traits, just because ithe two are similar in size should not mean either one is a ripoff of any other...the only ripoff i could see is chevy ripping off the looks of the older suburban...but wait...that's the point isnt it...i will also agree on the fact that i guess you could say the idea is a ripoff, which i guess would be true, but can you say that being that the same designer designed both cars? The PT isn't even based on anything, it just has 30's styling traits, where as the HHR purposely mimicks the 40's suburban...and here is a good comparison of the HHR and the PT...<br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022276__.jpg" BORDER="0"><IMG SRC="http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2003/10/22/WKA2003102202820_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022273__.jpg" BORDER="0"><IMG SRC="http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2003/08/12/WKA2003081232378_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/PV__022264__.jpg" BORDER="0"><IMG SRC="http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2000/04/07/WKA200004071011_pv.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>some of you (especially those of you iased against GM :p ) may still think they look identical, but honestly, other than size, I am not really seeing it...they both have totally different lines, I dont understand how one could think it is an exact replica of one another, or the fact that they share similarities...frankly, I think the HHR shares more similarities with the SSR than with the PT, but hey, thats my opinion, and everyone has their own opinions...sorry if i come out sounding like a jerk, dont mean to be <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Naga Royal Guard
01-04-2005, 02:24 PM
greenhouse right off the Jeep liberty, what gives

SV
01-04-2005, 05:13 PM
i guess when i think about it, it doesn't look so much like the PT, although its still obviously inspired by it....and i depise those god-awful fender flares

Dodger
01-04-2005, 05:25 PM
My aren't we all getting a bit defensive about this!?!? <p>I think everyone is taking the comments too seriously. Who cares if someone likes it or dislikes it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> Don't take the comments personal, they are just opinions.<p>Some people who said earlier to relax seem to be the ones who are taking this too seriously.

Andre
01-04-2005, 05:28 PM
You guysa have got a real problem if you keep trying to draw parallels to other cars. It's obvious that the theory it copied the PT was blown out of the water, so next you're comparing it to the Liberty, another DCX product. For once can't you guys look at a car as its own being?

Hexa VVRCi
01-04-2005, 05:50 PM
i only like the wheels

03ggelement
01-04-2005, 07:25 PM
Well, after reading all of your comments, I'd like to reply...after owning an '01 pt cruiser (and now an '03 element), I can see how some say they see similarities. However, as was also said, there are some differences. I personally like the modern interior and the "boxiness" of the HHR. Although, I haven't seen it in person, the HHR does look a little bigger and longer. It's somewhat original (specifically the doors and a console). I would consider it for my next vehicle. The "HHR" name is not the best, but the vehicle has a lot going for, imo.

Redline
01-04-2005, 08:14 PM
All I was trying to do was prove that this isn't just a PT rip-off, I'm fine if you don't like it, but if you're trying to pass off the design as a direct rip-off of another car when its not, I'll defend the vehicle in question. I respect everyone's opinion, but this isn't in any way a PT rip-off.

Nick
01-04-2005, 11:13 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Andre</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guysa have got a real problem if you keep trying to draw parallels to other cars. It's obvious that the theory it copied the PT was blown out of the water, so next you're comparing it to the Liberty, another DCX product. For once can't you guys look at a car as its own being?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Well said Andre...I guess you could say that was mainly my point in the whole matter, but I think I may have went a bit over the edge...but what you have stated is one thing i have noticed a lot of on this board...

autodanse
01-05-2005, 12:20 AM
nice comparison. they're really not that similar at all, good work.

Andre
01-05-2005, 01:01 AM
Redline, I was agreeing with you<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well said Andre...I guess you could say that was mainly my point in the whole matter, but I think I may have went a bit over the edge...but what you have stated is one thing i have noticed a lot of on this board...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, I've noticed it too. That's why it drove me up the wall

Santeno
01-05-2005, 10:59 AM
Look at it this way. We here are car afficionados, and for the most part, far more knowledgable about cars and styling than your average consumer. If we can look at the HHR and immediately see a connection to the PT Cruiser (enough for a rather lively debate), what do you think John and Jane Sixpack are going to think?<p>I have a nagging feeling that most consumers are going to look at this as Chevy's, nicer and bigger PT Cruiser, but not really get pass the fact that for the most part they've already "been there and done that".

syclone
01-05-2005, 01:19 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at it this way. We here are car afficionados, and for the most part, far more knowledgable about cars and styling than your average consumer. If we can look at the HHR and immediately see a connection to the PT Cruiser (enough for a rather lively debate), what do you think John and Jane Sixpack are going to think?<p>I have a nagging feeling that most consumers are going to look at this as Chevy's, nicer and bigger PT Cruiser, but not really get pass the fact that for the most part they've already "been there and done that".</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think a lot of average consumers are going to see a connection, but I'm not sure that will be an entirely bad thing. The PT right now is starting to get a little boring, and doesn't seem to have any real replacement in the near future. This could appeal to current PT owners, or those considering the purchase. It also doesn't scream retro as much to me, which could also gain some sales from people who avoided the PT just because they didn't want to be part of the retro craze.

anonms
01-06-2005, 06:24 PM
Hm.....<p>CSV meets H3.

Roadster44
01-06-2005, 10:55 PM
I think this will do quite well. If you read my posts often, you know that I'm not a big fan of retro styling. But in this case it actually looks good and perfectly balanced. Its modern and slightly uses retro cues. Very very smart. Bravo GM another winner. If they got the handling and comfort part right, and if aftermarket companies will pick up on it, then wow watch out. And best part about it is when next generation will come along, it'll be easier to decide which styling direction to go in. I can't say same for Mustang, PT Cruiser, Beetle.

Gallo
01-07-2005, 02:38 PM
I think that when you do a product, and this is similar to the competence, there's something wrong, because the people look it as a copy of the other vehicle, not like a new product. This is the case of the HHR, as we see in this forum, it doesn't matter if you love it or not or if you love the retro style or not, the problem is that everybody compares it with the PT Cruiser, and didn't see it like a new product, different and innovative. If you ask people who didn't love cars, they probably tell you that a lot of cars are very similar (even if they are from different companies), and don´t like it, that's why a lot of people tunning their cars, because they want something different, more personal, and don't like a car that a friend also could have.

StuckInNYForever
01-07-2005, 06:27 PM
Sure, but the bulk of car buyers don't want something different. They want Accords, Camrys, etc. When most people see the HHR, the will just compare it to the PT Cruiser, Matrix, etc and then buy the best vehicle for the price. I don't think anyone will avoid it because it is retro looking. Most people won't even know what a 1949 Suburban looked like. All they know of is old sports and muscle cars. Maybe some sales will be the result of retro styling, but I think most will be the result of a reasonably priced car with utility of an SUV without the rough ride and gas guzzling.

spwolf
01-07-2005, 09:04 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>StuckInNYForever</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sure, but the bulk of car buyers don't want something different. They want Accords, Camrys, etc. When most people see the HHR, the will just compare it to the PT Cruiser, Matrix, etc and then buy the best vehicle for the price. I don't think anyone will avoid it because it is retro looking. Most people won't even know what a 1949 Suburban looked like. All they know of is old sports and muscle cars. Maybe some sales will be the result of retro styling, but I think most will be the result of a reasonably priced car with utility of an SUV without the rough ride and gas guzzling.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>are we looking at the same pics? This car has in-your-face design, it aint no camry. My mom or dad would not want to be caught dead in this one.<p>What they count on is COOL factor, well cool factor aint that cool when you completly copy what someone else did, and this looks like rebadged PT cruiser... We could call it PT XXL...<p>You can spin it all you want, you can like your Chevy all you want, but they are going where PT was few years ago... And kids on the street will know this as well, and the car might lose some cred... Gotta love the GM's way of keeping the market share, I am sure Pontiac will come out of there somewhere as well...

StuckInNYForever
01-08-2005, 06:51 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>spwolf</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>are we looking at the same pics? This car has in-your-face design, it aint no camry. My mom or dad would not want to be caught dead in this one.<p>What they count on is COOL factor, well cool factor aint that cool when you completly copy what someone else did, and this looks like rebadged PT cruiser... We could call it PT XXL...<p>You can spin it all you want, you can like your Chevy all you want, but they are going where PT was few years ago... And kids on the street will know this as well, and the car might lose some cred... Gotta love the GM's way of keeping the market share, I am sure Pontiac will come out of there somewhere as well...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Most people don't buy on "cool factor". Look at the sales numbers. I am one of those. I have a family, and look towards mid size cars. I have a Sonata now, and will be looking at the Malibu, new Sonata, Accord, etc for a second family car. I will now also consider the HHR because of its size and price. I dont want a real SUV. This car fits my needs. I can care less about some 17 year old telling me it looks like a PT Cruiser. I just want to move my family around at a price that wont break the bank.<p>There was a first time for all designs. And then everyone else came and adopted their take on them. Same with the PT Cruiser. I personally do not like the design of the PT Cruiser (or Chrysler products for that matter), and would probably not purchase it. But, I do like the HHR and will consider it.<p>I also see it as car that has to be better than a PT Cruiser to sell in meaningfull quantities. Probably cheaper too. That works well for me! I would love it if there were more people on these boards that can validate my points, but most (not all!) people in the market for mid size family cars do not go to car websites or discussion groups, except when actually going to make their purchase. They do not go to the autoshows every year, and probably have no idea of the new cars coming out until they actually are in the showrooms.<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by StuckInNYForever at 7:04 AM 1/8/2005</i>

spwolf
01-08-2005, 06:15 PM
lets think outside of box for a second. <p>Not everyone is you - this car has in your face design. Cars with this kind of design are sold and bought because of their coolness factor as well - in fact, coolness factor might just be one of the biggest reasons. Cars like PT Cruiser, New Beetle, 300C sold to great extent because of how COOL they were. <p>Going from Sonata to HHR is pretty huge step in way of looking at cars btw.

StuckInNYForever
01-08-2005, 06:23 PM
Agreed. I think we are sort of on the same page. Because of the blatant rip off of the PT Cruiser, I think the "cool factor" crowd won't be there. But, I believe GM is looking for customers like myself (who want value and functionality), and others who just either won't ever buy a Chrysler for whatever reason, or are GM faithful. I do think they will come close to their targets as long as they don't overprice it thinking it has some sort of coolness that people will pay extra for.

jasmo
01-09-2005, 10:39 AM
I think Chrysler has a good case for a lawsuit here!

Santeno
01-10-2005, 09:41 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jasmo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think Chrysler has a good case for a lawsuit here!</TD></TR></TABLE><br>And what case would that be? The two vehicles have nothing in common and only share similar (but definitely not the same) styling. If we are going to go by that argument, then perhaps Ford should sue Chrysler for basing the styling of the PT on a '32 Ford. Unless a vehicle is a carbon copy of another (and you can prove it and that that copy is causing you harm), you have no case from a styling point of view.

spwolf
01-11-2005, 04:05 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Santeno</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>And what case would that be? The two vehicles have nothing in common and only share similar (but definitely not the same) styling. If we are going to go by that argument, then perhaps Ford should sue Chrysler for basing the styling of the PT on a '32 Ford. Unless a vehicle is a carbon copy of another (and you can prove it and that that copy is causing you harm), you have no case from a styling point of view.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>still an rip-off no matter how you spin it :-)

Nick
01-11-2005, 06:33 PM
i still dont understand how its a ripoff...thats like saying chevy was ripping off ford and the mustang when they came out with the camaro...or everyone else ripped off chrysler when it created the minivan and then so id everyone else...unless you create a carbon copy of another car, in this case it is far from the truth, then basically there is no ripoff involved...

StuckInNYForever
01-11-2005, 07:47 PM
Call it a ripoff if you will. They just let Chrysler do the market testing for them. Smart move when dealing with a new market segment. Now, GM is the second entrant. If successful, we will see one from Ford also I'm sure. Regardless of how they chose the styling, this is a great economical and stylish vehicle.

Santeno
01-12-2005, 10:51 AM
I agree with Stuckinnyforever, however, I'm not so sure that going retro was the right move from a styling POV. Europe has proven that there is a strong case to be made for modern small MPV's/crossovers. I think the american market would be receptive to such vehicles without having to resort to gimicky "me-too" styling.

1966_GTO_
01-12-2005, 05:18 PM
I think retro is the only way you can go when making a vehicle like this. I am anxiously awaiting the response of the public. I would love to see this surpass PT Cruiser sales, but we all know that's a long shot.

Ascariss
01-12-2005, 05:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>1966_GTO_</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think retro is the only way you can go when making a vehicle like this. I am anxiously awaiting the response of the public. I would love to see this surpass PT Cruiser sales, but we all know that's a long shot.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sure you can go retro, but what happens when you have to update the model to a new generation. You can't keep doing retro, there is so much retro you can do. The Mini cooper and Bettle, and even Audi TT are in this dilemma. How do you change the styling but don't alienate your current customers. There is so much you can change in a retro design without it loosing it's appeal IMO. The new Mini isn't changing much at all, and will be more like the first mini concept shown by BMW and the TT, more or less the same as the current car, but more new audi familt current styling. New PT cruiser, who knows. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

CalinG7
01-12-2005, 06:46 PM
I have to agree with spwolf on this one, which hasn't happened often at all. To me, the HHR smacks of full-on plagiarism. Even if some, just some of the details are a little different, the overall effect just screams PT Cruiser. In fact, if Chrysler came out with this as the updated or restyled PT, no one would be surprised. <p>And I disagree, it doesn't have to be a carbon copy. Look at the Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe, both tall wagons inspired by the PT Cruiser, built on identical platforms with identical engines, and in the same factory. But even they are more different from one another than this HHR is from the PT. It's an interesting, efficient, and worthy vehicle configuration, but that doesn't excuse the lack of originality, to put it kindly, or the full-on rip-off to be more blunt.

Nick
01-12-2005, 08:35 PM
give me a break...I am so tired of hearing this ripoff thing...I dont think there is any reason whatsoever the PT should be the only one of its kind...thats like saying there should only be one brand of pickup or one brand of minivan...as far as we know this can be the start of a new class of automobiles..."the retro wagon/crossover/hatchback" if you will...the hhr looks more like the ssr than it does to the PT anyways...some of you guys are trying to justify that it is a ripoof of the pt, well, maybe you need to open your eyes and quit talking out your asses...would you call the excursion a ripoff of the suburban? no. would you call a camaro a ripoff of a mustang? no. These are all similar types of cars..they share similar functions and aspects, in some cases they may even have some styling similarities, but I have never heard anyone bring up the fact that one is a ripoff of another...sure, I guess if you didnt know much about cars you could say the matrix is a ripoff of the vibe and vis versa, but GM and Toyota went in on that project together, so it is justified...I dont understand why there can only be one retro vehicle like that...I mean, if you were going to make it, how would you make it look? GM actually based it off of something, the 1949 suburban, and I honestly dont know how they couldve done it differently...looks like a 49 suburban to me...the PT doesnt look like a 49 suburban...infact the PT looks like some 30's ford or something, infact it really isnt based off of anything but styling cues from the 30's era...I mean, what more do you want to hear? There is absolutely no way the HHR can be a ripoff of the PT, I have looked at every single aspect of both cars and they share nothing in common really other than the fact that they would belong in similar categories of vehicles due to their dimensions...their lights are totally different...the styling of the hhr looks like more of the styling of the ssr, the grills are totally different shapes, they both have different lines, one is boxier, one is curvier, they are both based on different chassis, the HHR being based on the cobalt chassis and the PT which I am assuming has its own chassis...so if you really want to get down to it, you could say this is the truck version of the cobalt with retro styling cues...if any one of you can give me a good reason why I should believe its a ripoff and if you can justify that the HHR is a PT ripoff without saying "because they look the same" or "they are both retro" or "they are both similar types of vehicles" or that crap, then I will shutup right now, but so far all I have really heard is "The HHR is a ripoff of the PT" with really no other explanation backing it up...sorry for ranting about this all the time, but it really bugs me when i hear stuff like this...allthis stuff has been stated over and over again, but it seems like people just simply look at the pictures and state their mind...well thats nice and everything, but it would be nice if you actually read through the entire thread before posting something, that way you can see what has been discussed and the results from that discussion, so that we dont have to keep hearing the same damn thing over and over again <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/angry.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>...ok, I'm done <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

CalinG7
01-13-2005, 11:30 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...as far as we know this can be the start of a new class of automobiless...some of you guys are trying to justify that it is a ripoof of the pt, well, maybe you need to open your eyes and quit talking out your asses...sure, I guess if you didnt know much about cars you could say the matrix is a ripoff of the vibe and vis versa, but GM and Toyota went in on that project together, so it is justified... </TD></TR></TABLE><p>..........unnecessary Nick............... Those who think the HHR looks like the PT Cruiser have just as much right to chime in with their opinions as those who don't. Resolve your anger issues and don't get so worked up about a 3,000 lb piece of metal. I thought my post was fairly logical and had a few arguments that I didn't just pull out my ass, which you can feel free to answer specifically if you so wish, not just a general rant. <p>And I didn't say the Matrix was a rip-off of the Vibe, as you implied. I used them as an example since both are tall wagons, a segment that was created or inspired by the PT from what I've read. The Matrix and Vibe share a platform, engine, factory, and most other parts, components, and processes, but even with all those similarities, they look more different from one another to my eyes than the PT Cruiser and the HHR, which, as you pointed out, are completely different vehicles. Hope that made sense this time. <p>And you're right, the PT Cruiser created a whole new class of vehicles. I think it's been dubbed by the media as the "tall wagon", and is a combination of wagon, hatchback, crossover.........as you said. So far, I think you can put the PT Cruiser, HHR, Vibe, Matrix, and Golf Plus in this class, though there could be more (a Seat, I think, and maybe some JDM vehicles). Fact is those vehicles all serve similar purposes but look pretty different, except the PT and HHR. <p>And even if you're making a retro tall wagon, there's so much material you could use. The Ford 49 concept was retro, the Chrysler Chronos concept was retro, I think the Chevy Bel Air concept was retro............. these and more, all retro but no one with one good working eye would mistake them. Basically there are so many cars and so much history they could have taken inspiration for the HHR from, that I believe, and this is only my opinion, that GM used the vehicle from their past that most closely resembled the PT Cruiser so that they could have an excuse for making a near clone and still say they weren't copying. I could be wrong, I'm not stating it as fact.

knicks125
01-13-2005, 11:43 AM
Both the HHR & the PT were designed by the same person. I might be wrong about this but I read the designer drew HHR's inspiration from the PT. Say what you want to say, the two might be different in many areas but they do share lots of similar stylings.

syclone
01-13-2005, 06:41 PM
can we please take the pt cruiser comparisons to the opinions section? imo, they have turned this thread to total rubbish.<p>has anyone heard anything about a turbo or v6 option in the future for this. i like the hhr, but i think it really wont sell too well unless a version with at least 200hp is in the cards somewhere.

spwolf
01-14-2005, 09:11 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can we please take the pt cruiser comparisons to the opinions section? imo, they have turned this thread to total rubbish.<p>has anyone heard anything about a turbo or v6 option in the future for this. i like the hhr, but i think it really wont sell too well unless a version with at least 200hp is in the cards somewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>they should call it... HHR GT! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
01-14-2005, 09:16 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can we please take the pt cruiser comparisons to the opinions section? imo, they have turned this thread to total rubbish.<p>has anyone heard anything about a turbo or v6 option in the future for this. i like the hhr, but i think it really wont sell too well unless a version with at least 200hp is in the cards somewhere.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>There is already one there.<p>IMO this is fun <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> people are offering their honest opinions <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Nick
01-15-2005, 03:33 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CalinG7</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">..........unnecessary Nick............... Those who think the HHR looks like the PT Cruiser have just as much right to chime in with their opinions as those who don't. Resolve your anger issues and don't get so worked up about a 3,000 lb piece of metal. I thought my post was fairly logical and had a few arguments that I didn't just pull out my ass, which you can feel free to answer specifically if you so wish, not just a general rant. <p>And I didn't say the Matrix was a rip-off of the Vibe, as you implied. I used them as an example since both are tall wagons, a segment that was created or inspired by the PT from what I've read. The Matrix and Vibe share a platform, engine, factory, and most other parts, components, and processes, but even with all those similarities, they look more different from one another to my eyes than the PT Cruiser and the HHR, which, as you pointed out, are completely different vehicles. Hope that made sense this time. <br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>sorry if I insulted you or anything, it wasnt necessarily firected towards you in general, it was more directed towards the people who just day "It's a ripoff" and leave it at that...though i still do believe the only way it couldve been a ripoff was if chevy took a PT and put a bowtie on it...which I am sure they wouldnt do because the PT is a crappy car anyways (IMO, and I have heard they have lots of problems, my friend has one and she has nothing but problems with it)...the point i brought up about the matrix and vibe didnt mean to contradict you in any way or go against what you said, your post just gave me the idea to bring it as a fair comparison of 2 cars that are pretty much identical other than a few styling cues, but you dont see too many people calling them ripoffs, although, like i probably meant to say, if the two cars were more popular or took on different styling cues I am sure you would se more people calling plagiarism on it...same goes with the PT and HHR...if they were blander cars, lets say they were non-retro mid-size cars, and they both had the same degree of styling differences, I can guarantee you nobody would bring up the fact that they look like one another...it is just mostly due to the more extreme styling than what we are used to which is why people will look at it differently...and although i do understand it is designed by the same person which can get one to think why they are identical, i kind of feel bad for GM because thestyling cues of the HHR are that of chevy's back then...and for people to say that it is a ripoff of another vehicle is somewhat unfair because they really actually styled it after a 1949 suburban, not a PT...

KaRaceR
01-16-2005, 10:52 AM
befoe even readin other people's comments i thaught that is was just a truck version of the PT,<br>why would u want to design a car on a poor car

spwolf
01-17-2005, 11:14 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KaRaceR</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">befoe even readin other people's comments i thaught that is was just a truck version of the PT,<br>why would u want to design a car on a poor car</TD></TR></TABLE><p>lol

CalinG7
01-17-2005, 05:43 PM
Not to drone on about this, but I went to the LA car show on Saturday, and while I tried to look at the HHR with an open mind, I kept hearing the people passing by or pointing it out saying "PT Cruiser, PT Cruiser, PT Cruiser, PT Cruiser..............." It's not an official survey, but that was the general public speaking. They think the links are pretty obvious too.

Nadir(Detroit)
01-19-2005, 10:28 AM
You are right, the car's have one big link, Brian Nesbitt, designer of the PT Cruiser also worked on the HHR. Looks like we're not the only ones who see the similiarities:<p>GM's new SUV mimicks Chrysler PT Cruiser-analysts <br>-- GMT <br>By Michael Ellis<p>DETROIT, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Even before General Motors Corp. (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) unveils its new Chevrolet HHR sport utility later this week, its resemblance to Chrysler's PT Cruiser has already spurred criticism.<p>The bulging fenders, rounded edges and upright stance of both of the four-door vehicles evoke classic American cars from the 1930s and 1940s, distinguishing them from almost everything else on the road.<p>GM will officially reveal the HHR, which stands for "heritage high roof", at the Los Angeles auto show on Jan. 5. But GM has already released sketches of the vehicle. Several have been photographed during testing, giving automotive analysts and enthusiasts a good look at the compact SUV.<p>"Basically, no originality," summed up Eric Noble, president of Carlab, a Santa Ana, Calif. automotive consulting firm. "Overweight, under-powered and me-too styling," he added.<p>Many note that GM designer Brian Nesbitt, who lent a hand on the HHR, was the lead designer on the PT Cruiser when he worked at Chrysler.<p>The retro-looking HHR goes on sale the second half of this year, five years after the PT Cruiser arrived at dealerships. The PT Cruiser was a surprising success, and U.S. sales hit a high of 144,717 in 2001, but have cooled in recent years, even with the addition of a convertible version.<p>"I've seen the spy photos. None of us were thrilled with the design," said Catherine Madden, an analyst with Global Insight, a Lexington, Massachusetts, forecasting firm. "It definitely had some styling queues from the PT Cruiser."<p>'49 SUBURBAN<p>GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said that the HHR is rooted firmly in Chevrolet history, and recalls the 1949 Chevrolet Suburban.<p>"One of the things that people say is, oh, this is your version of the PT Cruiser. No it's not," Lutz told reporters at a preview of the vehicle last month. "If you take a side view of a '49 Suburban and take a side view of this, they are very close to being identical."<p>The HHR will be priced to appeal to young buyers, and its seats will fold flat, offering more functionality, GM officials said. At 174.5 inches in length, the HHR is nearly six inches longer than the PT Cruiser, giving it more cargo room.<p>GM expects to sell 80,000 to 100,000 HHRs a year, Lutz said. Some will be shipped to Europe, where GM is expanding its Chevrolet brand and the euro currency rate favors imports.<p>But analysts are skeptical that GM will achieve those sales levels.<p>"We think GM is late (to market) with this vehicle," said Joseph Barker, manager of North American sales analysis with CSM Worldwide. "If they were there say three years ago with this vehicle, our outlook would be more optimistic." CSM has a U.S. sales forecast of 60,000 to 70,000 of the HHRs.<p>The HHR is Chevrolet's second attempt at a retro-looking vehicle. The SSR, a two-seat, low-slung pickup truck which also looks similar to the '49 Suburban, has sold poorly since it arrived on the market in late 2003. <br> <br>

Dodger
01-19-2005, 11:15 AM
80,000-100,000 is quite a projection for something that has, <p>"No originality" and is "Overweight, underpowered," and has "me too styling." <p>In its defense this could be used to describe a lot of vehicles on the road today though.

knicks125
01-19-2005, 11:22 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nadir(Detroit)</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The HHR is Chevrolet's second attempt at a retro-looking vehicle. The SSR, a two-seat, low-slung pickup truck which also looks similar to the '49 Suburban, has sold poorly since it arrived on the market in late 2003.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Will we see a repeat?<p>Yeah...i think so!

Rugbyplaya91
01-19-2005, 02:14 PM
Hello 2005 Lincion blackwood...<p>I can see the headliens now<p>Chevy HHR just like blackwood:p<p>i don't like it much.. blah

Nick
01-19-2005, 02:20 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will we see a repeat?<p>Yeah...i think so!</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I think not...if the SSR was priced 10 grand less it would sell much better...the thing was way to0 overpriced especially with all the dealer markups...you cant even compare the two vehicles other than their retro styling...the hhr will start below 20 grand...I have no doubt in my mind that they will reach pretty close to the projected figures with this car...

LoneWolf
01-20-2005, 03:37 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nadir(Detroit)</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said that the HHR is rooted firmly in Chevrolet history, and recalls the 1949 Chevrolet Suburban.<p>"One of the things that people say is, oh, this is your version of the PT Cruiser. No it's not," Lutz told reporters at a preview of the vehicle last month. "If you take a side view of a '49 Suburban and take a side view of this, they are very close to being identical."</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Talk about getting backed into a corner and getting on the defensive! <p><B>Reporter:</B> Mr. Lutz, is the HHR a PT Cruiser ripoff?<br><B>Lutz:</B> Um, no, it's not a copy, it's almost <I>identical </I>to a 50-something-year-old obsolete design <I>all our own</I>. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>It's not my cup of tea, but I think GM can do okay with this -- IF they get the marketing and PR problems under control NOW.

Dodger
01-20-2005, 05:40 AM
I don't know, I think the PT has a more conventional design. It is not as retro as the HHR. I think the HHR would be more of a novelty thing but if they plan to sell over 80,000 a year, I think the novelty would soon wear off. <p>

AM2
01-20-2005, 06:19 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dodger</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think the HHR would be more of a novelty thing but if they plan to sell over 80,000 a year, I think the novelty would soon wear off. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>The HHR, being more of a practical station wagon(longer rear).... wouldn't the PT Cruiser be more of a novelty.

Dodger
01-20-2005, 07:35 AM
I just meant looks wise. I guess the PT is a bit of novelty thing and it is wearing off, you can see that in their sales. Even if it is more practicle, it just would't be my first choice.

Chicho
01-22-2005, 05:19 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/werd.gif" BORDER="0"> Another retro car, they broke their head. What can we expect from GM <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0">

mzoltarp
01-26-2005, 06:23 AM
Wow GM is really on a roll! With recycled 1995 styling for the Impala and a total PT Cruiser ripoff, can anybody hear the recipe for disaster? The bloom is off the PT cruiser. It, like the New Beetle and the Mini, is a trendy cute car that has a limited run of popularity. PT Cruisers are available now with deep discounts. With marketing blunders like this, GM is certain to continue losing market share.

Rymanrph
01-26-2005, 09:18 AM
Well the PT is far from a crappy car, as stated above. It has won numerous intial quality awards. Mine has been perfectly fine except for a bad radio (no matter how great a car is, there will always be one in the bunch that isn't). Any way, even though some of the novelty has worn off, Chrysler still managed to sell 115,955 of them last year. I think that number speaks for itself. I like the HHR, but would never buy one because I think my car is underpowered. Maybe it will be different, but I can't imagine the Cobalt engine being adequate (at least for me). The interior is horrible too. One of the reasons I bought my PT was because of the interior. While many might not like it, it is at least original and different. The HHR's interior is just plain boring.

caarmike
07-18-2005, 05:56 PM
Somebody snuck into a dealers-only event and got lots of HHR (and Impala) pics.<p><A HREF="http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17371" TARGET="_blank">http://www.gminsidenews.com/fo...17371</A><p>These pics show lots of colors and different trim levels. And, for the first time I've seen, a PT cruiser and HHR side-by-side. There's no mistaking that they are two totally separate cars. <p>Automotive News said on 7/11 that GM already had 400 HHRs on hand. I'm guessing that shipments can't be far off.

SV
07-18-2005, 06:09 PM
i'd like the HHR alot more if the PT cruiser was never made (although the HHR looks alot bigger). the impala is nice, but it's too bad they couldn't use a new platform (although i think this restyle is an interim change). still, the current impala is decent enough, and the new one fixes the problems i had with it: interior design/quality and styling.

knicks125
07-18-2005, 06:29 PM
I just can't get warmed to the HHR. I still see a lot of resemblence to the PT cruiser, espeically since the same designer designed both cars.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 11:02 AM 7/19/2005</i>

Santeno
07-19-2005, 08:04 AM
You've gotta love this picture:<p><A HREF="http://www.gminsidenews.com/naias/ridedrive/711_1696.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.gminsidenews.com/na...6.JPG</A><p>

knicks125
07-19-2005, 09:38 AM
hehe...classic....<p>pt please

jjazz0092002
07-19-2005, 10:52 AM
I do not understand why everyone is saying that these two cars look so much alike. THEY DON'T. First of all the fenders of the HHR are more sqaure then those of the round fenders on the PT. Second, the windows are more sqaure and the very back window is not conected to the rest of the windows. Third, the bumpers stick out of the HHR more than they do on the PT. And lastly, the interior of the HHR is way better. IT looks more classy and had more thought put into it. I think this car will apeal to the youth. I defiantly want one and i'm only 13.

knicks125
07-19-2005, 11:10 AM
It's called opinions...<p>Similar or not, the designer drew inspirations and styling cues from the PT. Oh, did I mention the PT and the HHR were designed by the same person <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/sheep.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 4:01 PM 7/19/2005</i>

AM2
07-19-2005, 04:19 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jjazz0092002</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do not understand why everyone is saying that these two cars look so much alike. THEY DON'T. First of all the fenders of the HHR are more sqaure then those of the round fenders on the PT. Second, the windows are more sqaure and the very back window is not conected to the rest of the windows. Third, the bumpers stick out of the HHR more than they do on the PT. And lastly, the interior of the HHR is way better. IT looks more classy and had more thought put into it. I think this car will apeal to the youth. I defiantly want one and i'm only 13.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>You can make a long list of all the differences but you have to understand that the basic concept behind both are the same, they are both retro wagons with hints of a custom hot-rod, a segment Chrysler made popular.

JBlair
07-19-2005, 04:24 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can make a long list of all the differences but you have to understand that the basic concept behind both are the same, they are both retro wagons with hints of a custom hot-rod, a segment Chrysler made popular.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I would tend to disagree about the hot rod thing. The Chevy is intended to look like the original suburban, not like a hot rod. (go take a look at pics of the suburban and you'll understand how the concept of each vehicle is completely different)

memorae
07-19-2005, 04:50 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would tend to disagree about the hot rod thing. The Chevy is intended to look like the original suburban, not like a hot rod. (go take a look at pics of the suburban and you'll understand how the concept of each vehicle is completely different)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, well, you seem to know the chevy press report by heart, but please don't say those cars are completely different, even in the concept: chevy wanted something that could beat up the PT, and they made... a square PT.

Redline
07-19-2005, 05:31 PM
So what? I guess Honda wanted something to beat the Camry so they made a tweaked Camry and called it the Accord? Its called competition, its what keeps prices low and it is a good thing. Not something to be ridiculed because two cars are in the same segment. Simply put, they don't look alike, they don't have mechanicals that are alike, and they don't have interiors that are alike, so they must not be alike. So they're similar, get over it, the HHR in no way is a copy of the PT.

Nick
07-19-2005, 07:21 PM
The only reason you guys notice it so much on these 2 vehicles is because they are retro therefore they standout more than the regular, bland cars the other companies dish out..japanese makes probably being the biggest culprits...but seriously, I am sure there are many other cars out there that are very similar...you just don't notice the difference as much because they sure don't stand out as much as this...

nismo
07-19-2005, 10:45 PM
Lets keep it simple. They are somewhat different but the Chevy HHR would not have been made if there wasn't a PT Cruiser. <p>jjazz0092002, thats nice that you like the car but (not to be mean or to affend) the "youth" or gen Y was born from 1979-1989. They haven't even begun to understand your age group or focus on them, you guys won't be buying for awhile. As a member of the "youth" market (19 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> ) I wouldn't buy it or the PT Cruiser and Chrysler learned that the "youth" didn't really take to the PT Cruiser pretty soon after releasing it. I think GM has seen that and the HHR isn't intended for the youth market. They focused on refinement and made it slightly bigger than the PT Cruiser correcting what the "middle aged" buyers of the PT were complaining about. To be honest I don't know anyone in my age range that has or wants a PT or anything "similar" to it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

JBlair
07-19-2005, 10:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lets keep it simple. They are somewhat different but the Chevy HHR would not have been made if there wasn't a PT Cruiser. <p>jjazz0092002, thats nice that you like the car but (not to be mean or to affend) the "youth" or gen Y was born from 1979-1989. They haven't even begun to understand your age group or focus on them, you guys won't be buying for awhile. As a member of the "youth" market (19 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> ) I wouldn't buy it or the PT Cruiser and Chrysler learned that the "youth" didn't really take to the PT Cruiser pretty soon after releasing it. I think GM has seen that and the HHR isn't intended for the youth market. They focused on refinement and made it slightly bigger than the PT Cruiser correcting what the "middle aged" buyers of the PT were complaining about. To be honest I don't know anyone in my age range that has or wants a PT or anything "similar" to it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'd buy either in a heartbeat and I'm 19. I actually saw a dealer HHR the other day at my local menards and was very, very impressed with how it looked in the real world. The styling was exceptionally clean and the grille really stood out in the parking lot. Because its squared off, it looks more mini-suv than wagon.

AM2
07-19-2005, 10:49 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The Chevy is intended to look like the original suburban, not like a hot rod. (go take a look at pics of the suburban and you'll understand how the concept of each vehicle is completely different)</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Here is a custom '49 Suburban...<br><IMG SRC="http://www.hotrodders.com/images/vehicles/170/49suburban1.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><B>with the custom hot rod treatment</B>... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Yes, the HHR's styling cues were inspired by the 1949 Suburban, but the HHR's concept, a compact car based(Cobalt) 5-door retro wagon is very close to the PT Cruisers, which happens to be their target.<p>Its the concept that is similar not the design. <p><B>Now if Chevy based the HHR on a Trailblazer platform, then that would set it apart from the PT Cruiser.</B><p>HHR<br><IMG SRC="http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/i/nctd/q/06s-hhr.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>PT Cruiser<br><IMG SRC="http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/il/news/2005/0616/cruiser.500.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Main difference is the HHR's concept is more wagon like so has a longer squarer rear end, while the PT has a shorter slanted more "car-like" rear end, but in general they were working on a similar formula.<p>At the end, I like the fresher looking HHR, but I wouldn't call it entirely original.<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 2:56 PM 7/20/2005</i>

AM2
07-19-2005, 11:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nick</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason you guys notice it so much on these 2 vehicles is because they are retro therefore they standout more than the regular...</TD></TR></TABLE><br>True.... the PT Cruiser happened to be the 1st retro wagon so its only natural that the HHR will be compared to the PT Cruiser.<p>Before each company found their own Retro niche...<br>Chrysler had the PT Cruiser retro wagon and the Prowler hot-rod.<br>Chevrolet had the SSR hot-rod pickup<br>Ford had the Thunderbird roadster/cruiser<p>At the end, the retro wagon was the most profitable, so here comes Chevrolet with their new HHR.... <br>I wonder when Ford will decide to join in with a Woody Wagon?<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 3:42 PM 7/20/2005</i>

Santeno
07-20-2005, 08:50 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder when Ford will decide to join in with a Woody Wagon?</TD></TR></TABLE><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Sadly never, since Chrysler already based the styling of the PT on a ford 1940's design (often compared to a mix of 1930's duce coupe hot-rod and early 40's tudor).<p>Now, not to beat a dead horse, for we've had this conversation any number of times before, but as many of you pointed out the important reason that the similarities in styling are mentioned, is because both vehicles are gunning for basically the same market. DCX thought it would be twentysomethings and quickly found out that the real shoppers were middle aged. The fact that the general styling and dimensions of both vehicles are similar has lead most consumers to immediately compare the HHR to the established standard for this market niche. The problem is that this is a market niche - and a shrinking one at that. DCX has not yet decided wether it's even worth it for them to replace the PT. However nice the HHR is, I just don't see hoards of middle aged buyers racing to buy it in the same way they did the PT. IMO, GM would have been better served styling this car in a more modern skin, so that it could compete with those vehicles that currently define the market for small tall wagons (the Xb and the Cube).<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Santeno at 12:09 PM 7/20/2005</i>

flyinmonkey351
07-20-2005, 12:07 PM
well theres allready one of these on ebay <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6173&item=4562224540&sspagename=WDVW" TARGET="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW</A>

Santeno
07-20-2005, 12:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>flyinmonkey351</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well theres allready one of these on ebay <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6173&item=4562224540&sspagename=WDVW" TARGET="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW</A></TD></TR></TABLE><br>So what's your point? The seller is a new car Chevrolet and Cadillac dealership who is offering it on-line. I bet they have a reserve that comfortably matches their expected return.

Redline
07-20-2005, 12:49 PM
Wow, can they not get both headlights in one shot? These guys need someone new to do their photography. It does look good in that color, but the front bumper looks big in those pictures.

boston
07-20-2005, 04:30 PM
This picture expresses my opinion on the car perfectly. Look at the tall buildings to the right<p><A HREF="http://www.gminsidenews.com/naias/ridedrive/711_1682.JPG" TARGET="_blank">http://www.gminsidenews.com/na...2.JPG</A><p>Is it me or was retro "hot" say two years ago. I'm not sure how retro will play now. Though it will be popular in rental lots....<p>Guess I don't like this one. Sorry folks.

FordRules
07-21-2005, 12:18 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ChrisDyson</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the Dodge inspired tail lights as well <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE> chevy has had bullet tail lights since 2003 on the silverado's, dodge has had them since 2004 -2005 on dakotas and durangos!

DoMiNo
07-21-2005, 12:58 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ford_rules</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> chevy has had bullet tail lights since 2003 on the silverado's, dodge has had them since 2004 -2005 on dakotas and durangos!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Recall also that the Jeep Liberty had a similar design, in 2002.

knicks125
08-01-2005, 07:39 PM
Edmunds perfer the PT:<p><A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=106628" TARGET="_blank">http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...06628</A>

syclone
08-06-2005, 11:44 AM
I finally saw an HHR on the road yesterday, and was surprised that it really does look quite a bit different than the pt in the flesh

bm88
08-06-2005, 12:05 PM
Autocar reports that the concept was hit by a falling tree, any pics?

Dodger
08-06-2005, 12:39 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>syclone</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I finally saw an HHR on the road yesterday, and was surprised that it really does look quite a bit different than the pt in the flesh</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I saw one on a flatbed a few months ago and felt the same way. Once you see one in person they do look quite a bit different.

taskbearer
08-06-2005, 08:19 PM
I still don't see a reason for the HHR. Its styling is better executed than the PT, but thats not saying much. The mass of the vehicle and the PT put me off. The scion xb achieves similar acceleration times with a 1.5L engine, thats because it weighs 866lbs less. I am not a fan of both the PT and the HHR and think the smaller xb is more practical at a lower cost.<p>If Chevy succeeds, good luck to them, But I doubt that.

JBlair
08-06-2005, 09:17 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still don't see a reason for the HHR. Its styling is better executed than the PT, but thats not saying much. The mass of the vehicle and the PT put me off. The scion xb achieves similar acceleration times with a 1.5L engine, thats because it weighs 866lbs less. I am not a fan of both the PT and the HHR and think the smaller xb is more practical at a lower cost.<p>If Chevy succeeds, good luck to them, But I doubt that. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What sets the PT and the HHR apart from the xB is the fact that the vehicles don't look like they were drawn by a curvature-challenged 4-year old. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> Also, in case you haven't noticed, the xB doesn't exactly cater to a wide market.

StuckInNYForever
08-07-2005, 12:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>What sets the PT and the HHR apart from the xB is the fact that the vehicles don't look like they were drawn by a curvature-challenged 4-year old. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> Also, in case you haven't noticed, the xB doesn't exactly cater to a wide market.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>HAHAHA!<p>Most buyers of the PT and HHR will never even consider the Scion. Scion is more for the younger population, while the PT and HHR caters to a little older demographic.

orangeeagle13
08-07-2005, 03:05 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>StuckInNYForever</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Most buyers of the PT and HHR will never even consider the Scion. Scion is more for the younger population, while the PT and HHR caters to a little older demographic.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>While Scions target was the 20 something crowd, I've never seen a person that age driving one here. They all look a bit older than their twenties, or to me atleast. I've never understood why car makes think a whole segment would like a box on wheels [its a nice box though], kids my age and older like small coupe and sedans that are easily modded.

DSC-OFF
08-07-2005, 07:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>orangeeagle13</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>While Scions target was the 20 something crowd, I've never seen a person that age driving one here. They all look a bit older than their twenties, or to me atleast. I've never understood why car makes think a whole segment would like a box on wheels [its a nice box though], kids my age and older like small coupe and sedans that are easily modded.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Most Scion drivers ive seen on the road are in their 30s & sometimes 40s. Every Scion owner i have met is in their late 20s, early 30s, and most of them were previous Toyota Camry & Corolla owners

Nodnarb
09-12-2005, 11:21 AM
<A HREF="https://www.autonews.com/buyArchives.cms?articleId=54441" TARGET="_blank">https://www.autonews.com/buyAr...54441</A> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Autonews</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Chevy HHR gets strong launch<br>Automaker now sees annual sales nearing 100,000<br>By Jamie LaReau<br>Automotive News / September 12, 2005<p>U.S. sales of the Chevrolet HHR began in June. Dealers are selling the wagons faster than they are receiving them.<br>HHR ramps up<br>August sales for Chevrolet HHR and key competitors:<p>Chrysler PT Cruiser - 9,812<br>Honda Element - 5,871<br>Chevrolet HHR - 5,760<br>Scion xB - 4,959<br>Source: Automotive News Data Center <p>DETROIT - Confident that the Chevrolet HHR is a hit, General Motors plans a robust 2006-model production of 100,000 units.<p>"They've got me on max overtime and running every one I can make," Lori Queen, GM's vehicle line executive for small cars, told Automotive News.<p>The HHR is built at the Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, plant.<p>The wagon starts at $15,990 including shipping with the top model in the $24,000 range, a Chevrolet spokesman says.<p>As GM moves to value pricing - setting stickers closer to transaction prices, often while offering more equipment - the HHR will prove that the strategy will work, Queen says.<p>During an interview at the Los Angeles auto show in January, Gary Cowger, then GM North America president, said Chevrolet expected to sell 80,000 to 100,000 units annually. In June, GM revised that goal to about 60,000 a year, said Jim Campbell, director of Chevrolet car marketing.<p>But Queen insists the plan was always to build 100,000 HHRs annually.<p>"There have been pessimistic buying forecasts, but we're convinced we'll sell every car we can make," she says.<p>GM started shipping the HHR to auto dealers in late June. In August, 5,760 HHRs were sold, outpacing the Scion xB, but trailing the Honda Element and Chrysler PT Cruiser. (See box above.)<p>According to J.D. Power's Power Information Network, the largest bloc - 42.7 percent - of buyers were Chevrolet owners.<p>Ford was the second most frequently traded brand at 11.1 percent, followed by Dodge at 6.4 percent and Chrysler at 6 percent.<p>"The dealers keep telling us, 'I put one out on the showroom floor, and it sold that night,' " Queen says.<p>Waiting for vehicles<p>Queen would not say how many more HHRs will be built this year.<p>Dealers say they have orders and are waiting for vehicles.<p>"Give us as many as we can get," says Keith Lang, general manager of Tennyson Chevrolet in Livonia, Mich., told Automotive News.<p>"Everyone that's come in has gone out the door as soon as we got it."<p>Lang said he has sold five HHRs since June.<p>Herndon Chevrolet in Lexington, S.C., has received only two HHRs, says President David Herndon. The dealership sold the wagons to the first customers who test drove them, he says.<p>"We had them for a day," Herndon says.<p>Herndon says he'll get another HHR this week, but he has 10 ordered.<p>Says Ken Mims, sales manager at Larry Puckett Chevrolet in Prattville, Ala., "We had two and sold two. I wish I had some more. The price is very attractive, and it's very well received."<p>Mims won't get two more HHRs until early next month, he says. Meanwhile, customers are calling him to inquire about the vehicle.<p>Selling for sticker<p>According to PIN data, the HHR's average transaction price in August was $20,199.<p>Dealers say that there is a small margin on the vehicle, leaving little room to cut prices. So they are selling the wagons for sticker price, they say.<p>Although a Chevrolet spokesman says GM wants the vehicle to appeal to "younger folks," they recognize that older buyers like the wagon.<p>PIN data show the average age of HHR buyers in August was 49.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I got to check one out the other day at the dealership and came away impressed. More so than with the Cobalt and LaCrosse when I first checked them out, I'll admit, I like them, but thought they were kind of meh, but this one truely impressed me. Could GM finally be gaining some much needed momentum?<br>

erzhik
09-12-2005, 12:02 PM
Seen it 5 times.. I must say, it looks quite good but very PT cruiser.

Redline
09-12-2005, 05:07 PM
I wonder how many of those Cruisers were fleet sales or only due to discounts? Looks like GM has once again hit the mark with their new lineup.

knicks125
09-12-2005, 07:35 PM
Good for GM. <p>That said, I would like to see its sales figure post-employee discount program, if that would ever happen.<p>Since these programs from the domestics have been very successful, that would mean everyone who needed a car probably got one, and everyone who didn't need a car probably got one as well, tempted by the lower prices.<p>Along the same lines, all these trade-ins, huge discounts are only going to worsen the resale value, if nothing else.

Nodnarb
09-12-2005, 07:39 PM
I don't think the HHR ever had the employee discount program. The employee discount was for all '05s and '06 full-size trucks. Since the HHR debuted as an early '06, it never had the discount. I looked at one before heading to school and was disapointed to find out it wasn't offered. I ended up hitching rides with friends, rather than getting a new car, if anyone cares. I haven't needed a car yet, though. Cities with a good bus system, what a concept.

knicks125
09-12-2005, 07:46 PM
Opps...thanks for point that out <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Please discard my post...never mind <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Sidenote <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> for bus system and carpool

SV
09-12-2005, 07:54 PM
i'm glad the HHR has taken off, because i wasn't expecting it to do as well as it's doing (i wasn't expecting it to flop, just 40-50k a year or so). the solstice and sky will almost definitely repeat this success, and hopefully so will more mainstream cars like the saturn aura and those new crossovers. hopefully ford will see similar success with the fusion too, and i don't see why they won't <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0">