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Andre
12-17-2004, 01:02 PM
The new Passat - Perfect design and comfort throughout<p>Wolfsburg, 14. December 2004<p>Appealing: the Volkswagen for a better journey in a mobile lifestyle<br>Progressive: design with new front section looks ahead to the future of the brand<p><br> * Intelligent: numerous functions using next generation technology<br> * Powerful: new TDI with 125 kW / 170 PS and Piezzo-operated unit injector technology<br> * Safe: ESP + trailer stabilisation, bi-xenon headlights with cornering light<br> * Comfortable: four-link rear suspension with acoustic dampening, draught-free Climatronic ventilation<p>This is it  the new Passat. Initial photos and facts as a taster before the premiere in February 2005. The launch will follow in the first European countries in March, after which the sixth generation of the bestselling model  more than 13 million Passats have been sold to date  will also be launched on the other continents.<p>The new Passat is a car which is just as stylish as it is functional, comfortable and well thought-out. Volkswagen has not only redesigned the major features  the engines, running gear and the body. To improve the mobile lifestyle, the cleverly-designed functional elements make all the difference. There are many examples of this: the Bluetooth telephone unit, the high-quality sound system, the sporty but comfortable long-distance seats, the intelligent starting and locking system, the electronic parking brake, automatic distance control, draught-free Climatronic ventilation or simply the very stylish interior and exterior. That is the new Passat.<p>Design - the new face of Volkswagen?<p>Its striking design shows stylish lines, is extremely distinctive and shows a progressive brand image with a chrome shield.shaped radiator grille  the new face. The much-acclaimed Concept R (Roadster) and Concept C (Cabriolet-Coup) showed the stylistic direction for this VW face of the future. The Passat is the first production vehicle to now show these characteristics.<p>The rear section of the Passat is characterised by fast responding LED rear lights which reproduce the styling of the headlights with a round main element.<p>Dimensions  controlled growth<p>Its is traditional in terms of the series that the new Passat offers a spacious interior close to that offered by the luxury-class. Thanks to the transversely-mounted engines and the slightly larger body dimensions however, this applies now more than ever. In detail, the new Passat is 4.77 metres long (+ 62 mm), 1.82 metres wide (+ 74 mm) and 1.47 metres tall (+ 10 mm). Its wheelbase measures 2.71 metres (+ 6 mm); the luggage compartment offers a maximum volume of 565 litres (+ 90 litres). Another dimension is particularly exciting however: the static torsional rigidity. Its value is 57 percent greater than that of its already very good predecessor and represents the best value in its class.<p>Engines  six out of seven are direct injection and new to the Passat range<p>Petrol engines: With the exception of the entry-level engine with 75 kW / 102 PS, all the petrol engines are new to the Passat range. The four-cylinder FSI engines with homogeneous direct injection have an output of 85 kW / 115 PS, 110 kW / 150 PS and 147 kW / 200 PS. A 3.2 litre V6 FSI with 184 kW / 250 PS will top off the range in the fourth quarter of 2005.<p>Diesel engines: Each of the three TDIs are being used in this series for the first time. These will be as a 77 kW / 105 PS, 103 kW / 140 PS and 125 kW / 170 PS units. The diesel engines will also gradually be offered with a diesel particulate filter. The most powerful TDI is equipped with the highly innovative Piezzo-operated high pressure fuel injection system and two balancer shafts, as is the 103 kW TDI with diesel particulate filter. The 85 kW, 110 kW and 147 kW petrol engines can be combined with a comfortable six-speed automatic gearbox; the two more powerful TDI engines with the innovative dual-clutch gearbox (DSG). Models with the 4MOTION four-wheel drive will follow at a later date.<p>Interior  fresher, more driver-orientated, more functional<p>A glance at the interior of the new Passat reveals a transparent, fresh, luxurious and stylish design, high-quality materials and technology orientated towards people and not towards what is theoretically possible. The aim here was to achieve perfect ergonomics and operation. The Passat kazzoopit is therefore more driver-orientated then ever, with sporty and clean line functional elements and stylistic brilliancy. The interior can be adapted according to personal preferences, for example through four equipment lines, each available with four colour schemes together with wood and aluminium trims.<p>Technology  the most intelligent Passat of all time<p>New Feature I, The Electronic Parking Brake The Passat has an electronic parking brake as standard  a first in this class. It engages and disengages at the touch of a button. Its electronic control system is linked to other control units via a network. This means it can perform a series of new brake functions. These include dynamic onboard braking system, auto release (for hill starts) and vehicle hold (no need to hold down the brake pedal at traffic lights)<p>New Feature II, Starting and Locking System The Passat's remote control starting and locking functions have been developed as an entirely new system. It dispenses with the conventional ignition key. Instead the central locking transmitter slots into a holder to the right of the steering wheel and the driver then presses it to start the engine. In models equipped with Volkswagen's keyless entry system, now available in the Passat for the first time, the engine simply starts at the touch of button.<p>New Feature III, Automatic Distance Control Automatic distance control, which Volkswagen first introduced in the Phaeton, is now available in the new Passat, marking another new development in this segment. The system is intuitively operated via a lever on the steering column. As soon as the distance to the vehicle in front falls below a defined value, the Passat applies the brakes until the car has slowed to a speed which has been preset via the cruise control system. Once the lane ahead is clear again, the Passat accelerates to the previously selected speed.<p>New Feature IV, Bluetooth Telephone The Passat has an optional telephone unit with hands-free capability featuring a bluetooth interface. Genial dabei: The ingenious part of the system is that if you have started a telephone call outside the Passat, you can still get in and drive away while continuing the call, provided you have a suitable Bluetooth mobile phone.<p>New Feature V, Dynaudio Sound System Volkswagen has paid utmost attention to the quality of infotainment and entertainment in the new Passat. The 600-Watt high-end sound system from the hifi specialist Dynaudio offers an outstanding audio experience. The 10-channel system equipped with excellent components sets a new standard in this class. For instance, the top navigation system is fed with road data via DVD.<p>New Feature VI, Draught-free Climatronic Ventilation The two-zone automatic climate control system is also a unique option in this class. As in the Phaeton, this system allows draught-free ventilation/cooling at the touch of a button.<p>Power Supply: Business travellers will welcome the ability to recharge a laptop via a 230 Volt power supply<p>Bi-Xenon Adaptive Headlights Major improvements have been made to Passat's headlight systems compared to the predecessor model. Moreover, the adaptive bi-xenon headlights now light up the road even better. They have an integrated dynamic cornering light and a static cornering to ensure optimum illumination of the road ahead. The cornering light enhances safety especially when turning at a crossroads or junction.<p>Running Gear with ESP + Trailer Stabilisation The new four-link rear suspension, which is separated from the body by a noise reducing subframe, and the McPherson strut front suspension designed with aluminium components give the Passat an outstanding level of agility, comfort and safety. To make the running gear technology complete, the Passat has ESP and all vehicles with a tow bar are equipped with trailer stabilisation. In addition to the usual ESP functions, this system detects imminent trailer snaking and takes action via the brakes and the engine to prevent it.<p>VW press

Andre
12-17-2004, 01:06 PM
<IMG SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/news/2041214.011/2041214.011.1L.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3041214.004/1001big.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3041214.004/1003big.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>source: <A HREF="http://www.germancarfans.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.germancarfans.com</A><p><br><IMG SRC="http://www.km77.com/marcas/volkswagen/passat_05/0primera/gra/08.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://www.km77.com/marcas/volkswagen/passat_05/0primera/gra/05.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>source: <A HREF="http://www.km77.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com</A>

Nuvolari
12-20-2004, 04:01 PM
Hi there.... this is my first post here!<p>I have to say that the '06 Passat (or '05 Passat outside the U.S.) looks much better than the current version. It has sporty looks and a touch of the Phaeton (especially the rear lights with its led's). <br>It shows the new company's face in a better way than the '06 Jetta does. By the way: We saw the first appearance of the new face (on a regular VW)with the new GTI. <br>The interior looks fresh and premium, it beats the pants off the new BMW 3 series... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0">

Fangorious Reborn
12-20-2004, 07:00 PM
the w8 would be so awesomely amazing in this car......too bad from what i here it won't be in it....

knihc2008
12-20-2004, 07:33 PM
the face is way too bold, and the interior is way too weird! i see cues of the 5 series in the interior door panels and e46 on the dashboard. looks huge too.

jro4566
12-20-2004, 07:45 PM
I like the interior, but I'm still thinking about whether I like the exterior or not.

Shrek
12-20-2004, 07:50 PM
They seem to lost the styling edge as past VW, THe backs looks like a giant Corolla.

nismospeed
12-20-2004, 08:29 PM
I have to say that this design seems more powerful and sculpted than the b5 passat, but keep wondering if the move upmarket will alienate many of the lower-end Passat buyers who will now be forced into Jettas. If the Jetta wasn't so "unique" looking this wouldn't be an issue...

Reppu
12-21-2004, 12:44 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismospeed</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the Jetta wasn't so "unique" looking this wouldn't be an issue...</TD></TR></TABLE><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> good point there!. I agree with the price thing, this will likely move upmarket a lot.<p>I think that the color trims (in & out) chosen for these pics are not doing it any favour. You can check the old thread for a different interior color.

CalinG7
12-21-2004, 01:41 AM
It's oddly wierd and conservative at the same time. Does anyone know what it will be priced at here in the US?

Chris
12-21-2004, 06:30 AM
do they really have put the blinker in the bumper?<br>why they removed it from the headlights? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmileo.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>thats really a step backward <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>why every car company must have now a giantic grill like audi have? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>

knicks125
12-21-2004, 07:35 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Chris</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do they really have put the blinker in the bumper?<br>why they removed it from the headlights? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmileo.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>thats really a step backward <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>why every car company must have now a giantic grill like audi have? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0"> <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah I don't like it either, for them to place the blinkers in the bumper area, but I don't think it's a step backward - I guess VW decided it was time for a change.<p>Every car has a big grill nowadays is to show presence - look how well the 300 is doing so far.

RS
12-21-2004, 07:38 AM
Among other features, the blinker helps create less visual mass on the front overhang which is good. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/aliensmiley.gif" BORDER="0">

DSC-OFF
12-25-2004, 04:31 PM
European 230V power outlet<br><IMG SRC="http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/61364.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Rolls style umbrella holder <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/61356.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Trunk<br><IMG SRC="http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/61365.jpg" BORDER="0">

Reppu
12-26-2004, 01:01 AM
Clever solutions...any more pics apart from these? I'm loving this car more and more.

spwolf
12-26-2004, 03:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RS Genesis</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Among other features, the blinker helps create less visual mass on the front overhang which is good. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/aliensmiley.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>as long as you dont pay the bills of repairing it...<p>p.s. no spare tire? figures... I wonder if VW is going to have discount this baby as they did Mark V from start up...

jidli
12-26-2004, 06:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> good point there!. I agree with the price thing, this will likely move upmarket a lot.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>The pricing of the new Passat is not going to be very different from the current Passat. Only very slightly higher.<p>

jidli
12-26-2004, 06:11 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>spwolf</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I wonder if VW is going to have discount this baby as they did Mark V from start up...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>VW had to discount Golf V because of 2 things: one it looked conservative compared to the Astra and also the Astra was quite cheaper. With the New Passat atleast in US, it will compete and very easily better the likes of Acura TL etc and hence shouldn't be a problem.<br>

DSC-OFF
12-27-2004, 06:19 AM
<IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/10/heft_150.74014.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Source: AMS

[AP]adiweb
12-27-2004, 07:10 AM
The current AMS has really some nice pics of the passat!

RikfromBelgium
12-27-2004, 10:08 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jidli</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The pricing of the new Passat is not going to be very different from the current Passat. Only very slightly higher.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><br>The UK prices for every engine available are expected to rise 1000, that's arround 1400euro or a little les then $2000<br>

jidli
12-27-2004, 08:23 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RikfromBelgium</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>The UK prices for every engine available are expected to rise 1000, that's arround 1400euro or a little les then $2000<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's a reasonably more $$ than little. From what I have read so far, the order of price increase in US will be of hundreds $$ and not thousand $$ for comparable older gen models. Might be more in Europe... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>

spwolf
12-28-2004, 08:23 AM
yea, considering that Passat is already the most expensive car in the category...<p>It will be avail. with 1.6 100hp petrol and 2.0 105hp diesel engines in the Europe as well...

Blackraven
12-30-2004, 09:54 AM
TDI diesel engines would go well. <p>If VW wants to add an AWD system, a higher engine (eg W12), or even hybrid, let them do it. The more the merrier.<p>And to my surprise,<p>Are those Illumination Meters? (eg. Optitron)

Reppu
12-31-2004, 04:03 AM
What's on Optitron ???

knicks125
12-31-2004, 08:20 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Blackraven</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TDI diesel engines would go well. <p>If VW wants to add an AWD system, a higher engine (eg W12), or even hybrid, let them do it. The more the merrier.<p>And to my surprise,<p>Are those Illumination Meters? (eg. Optitron)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Please don't tell me you're suggesting a W12 engine in the Passat? (is that what you're suggesting?). It would be nice, that I agree, but would serve no functionality whatsoever. At least in the US, no one wanted the W8 Passat, so I don't think W12 would solve the problem. <p>N.A. (US in general) is the only place where you can bring big engines like this and offer it to the masses, due to restrictions that are placed elsewhere.<p>Other things I am all for and agree with you - AWD, hybrid, but just not W12, a V6 for now is plenty enough for the price that the passat is selling.<p>Oh yeah, BTW, what is an optitron anyway?

spwolf
01-01-2005, 07:33 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's on Optitron ???</TD></TR></TABLE><p>LED lighted instruments gauges initially offered on Lexus and now standard on most modern Toyota's... Once you use Optitron, nothing else is good enough.

spwolf
01-01-2005, 07:34 AM
p.s. Passat's have had 4wd in Europe for a while, for wide range of engines...

knicks125
01-01-2005, 08:00 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Blackraven</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If VW wants to add an AWD system, a higher engine (eg W12), or even hybrid, let them do it. The more the merrier.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>VW will be, or at least plans to, inserting a W12 coupe that goes from 0-60 in less than 3.5 secs <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> , or as I read <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

JBlair
01-01-2005, 09:26 PM
The W12 project was canceled long ago. If Piechstrieder (I think thats how it is spelled), had been promoted earlier, the Phaeton would have suffered the same fate as well in its' present form.

knicks125
01-01-2005, 10:45 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The W12 project was canceled long ago. If Piechstrieder (I think thats how it is spelled), had been promoted earlier, the Phaeton would have suffered the same fate as well in its' present form.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Really? Thanks for the update!<p>Probably for the best. VW should just stay with its current lineup, minus its unsuccessful Phaeton project.

badman
01-06-2005, 08:54 AM
<IMG SRC="http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/61352.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><i>Source: AutoBild</i>

Yannis
01-06-2005, 09:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Blackraven</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>If VW wants to add an AWD system, a higher engine (eg W12), or even hybrid, let them do it. The more the merrier.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p> New Passat uses a transversely mounted engine instead of the current longitudinal layout so no W or V8 engines. Top engine will be a new 3.6 lt V6. <p><A HREF="http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041214.011/volkswagen/1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.germancarfans.com/n....html</A>

sciontc128
01-08-2005, 06:58 PM
The rear end looks sooo much like the '06 Jetta.

Reppu
01-09-2005, 01:48 AM
I think it's the other way around. Anyhow, it fit's much better to the Passat, it looks to me like a last minute design on the Bora.

AM2
01-11-2005, 09:16 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Blackraven</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If VW wants to add an AWD system, a higher engine (eg W12), or even hybrid, let them do it. The more the merrier.<br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>The new Passat has a transverse engine because its platform is based on the Jetta(expanded version), so there is no room for a W12 or even the old Passat's W8. Besides, I think these W-engines weren't really designed to be mounted transversely anyway.<br>If they will make a stronger version, it will have to be something like a turbocharged VR6...

Naga Royal Guard
01-21-2005, 11:36 PM
i really hope that VW offers a W12 powerplant in this, they will kill everyone

HondaTech
01-21-2005, 11:52 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really hope that VW offers a W12 powerplant in this, they will kill everyone</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You don't want VW to make any profit, do you? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>

Ascariss
02-05-2005, 02:58 PM
<IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//passat-01.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://premium1.uploadit.org/ascariss//passat-02.jpg" BORDER="0"><br>

r0b
02-05-2005, 03:22 PM
I think this is Faeton, not passat! Check out the rear lights!

Hornbag
02-05-2005, 05:50 PM
Am i the only one in the world that loves the Phaeton? I would have it over a 7 series, A8 or S class anyday!

Ascariss
02-05-2005, 06:45 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag_1</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Am i the only one in the world that loves the Phaeton? I would have it over a 7 series, A8 or S class anyday!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Maybe, but I myself would opt for the Maserati Quattroporte, in black. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/2cool.gif" BORDER="0">

Andre
02-05-2005, 09:01 PM
It's a Phaeton. VW covers their most expensive cars during transport, it drive photographers (myself included) nuts when they seem them (ships with VWs come into SD harbor, I see truckloads all the time, and the ones which are covered always make me look two or three times)

AU297
02-08-2005, 07:56 AM
I just got some interesting news from my source. It's hard to believe, but although the new Passat has grown in size it actually has reduced in weight!!! Pretty crazy considering the huge increase in horsepower (200 base, 280 optional). This new passat is going to be sweet!

Reppu
02-08-2005, 09:16 AM
Since the car was unveiled, very few actual data has been released. Strange thing if the car is to go on sale by March. Prices should be on the table by now.

DoMiNo
02-08-2005, 07:21 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Ascariss</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Maybe, but I myself would opt for the Maserati Quattroporte, in black. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/2cool.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>WOW. With bordeaux interior... Mesh grilles (like the Neiman Marcus edition) and chrome wheels... I think my heart just skipped a beat.<br>

cadil-benz
02-08-2005, 10:59 PM
While driving on the Kansas Turnpike this weekend I passed a gray-green 2006 Passat. There were no markings on the tunk lid other than the VW logo and the liscence plate was from florida.<p>It looked very nice, much smaller than it does in the pictures released by VW. All the chrome on the front end was a little much though.<br>

Hornbag
02-09-2005, 12:10 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cadil-benz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the chrome on the front end was a little much though.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Did it blind you? I mean, its just so danm shinny! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

carrera4
02-16-2005, 06:37 AM
new pic from AMS<p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/04_450.79853.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/05_450.79855.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/06_450.79857.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/07b_450.79859.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/08_450.79861.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/09_450.79863.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/10_450.79865.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/10b_450.79867.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/11_450.79869.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/04_450.72831.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/13_450.79871.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/14_450.79875.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/15_450.79879.jpg" BORDER="0"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/16_450.79883.jpg" BORDER="0">

Laguna
02-16-2005, 06:40 AM
The alloys, lights and lines is what makes it sexy.

SV
02-16-2005, 06:48 AM
thanks for the pictures, it seems like new ones would never be released <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beerchug.gif" BORDER="0"> this looks really good, although the huge grille makes the headlights look tiny IMO.

RikfromBelgium
02-16-2005, 09:36 AM
This car looks superb <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0">

DoMiNo
02-16-2005, 10:33 AM
I love it. I can't wait to see it in the flesh. And the interior is gorgeous!

CalinG7
02-16-2005, 12:33 PM
To me it looks OK, though it seems the designers had to use a lot of styling tricks to cover up some not too applealing proportions. Styling over proper design. The previous one, though dated now, was cleaner and more beautiful in its' simplicity, IMO. This one loses that to some extent, like VW really wants to be Japanese or something.

Krypton
02-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Looks really good but too much of an Audi which is good for VW but not Audi. how much is the price jump going to be

nismo
02-16-2005, 02:22 PM
its not bad.. but I also feel its a little too Audi-like. Is it me or is the front overhang kinda long? The front looks stretched or some thing..

piokor
02-16-2005, 04:16 PM
Those new pics make the car look so great. When is this supposed to come in the US?

Naga Royal Guard
02-16-2005, 04:32 PM
around the same time that they release the new Golf and Jetta here i would imagine ( is the new jetta on sale in europe yet?)

fubar
02-16-2005, 04:48 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Sexy enough to make a Boy Band drool.

Ascariss
02-16-2005, 04:55 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">around the same time that they release the new Golf and Jetta here i would imagine ( is the new jetta on sale in europe yet?)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nope, the Jetta arrives in europe up to 6 months later than in NA. It goes on sale here in march, so sept in europe i guess.

Hornbag
02-17-2005, 12:01 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>fubar</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icondrool.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Sexy enough to make a Boy Band drool.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>LOLim agreeing on all counts here! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>All this car needed was time, and some good pictures.

Reppu
02-17-2005, 12:04 AM
There are more new pics in <A HREF="http://www.km7.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km7.com</A><p>Here, a comparison between the standard headlights and the directional headlights. I like the standard ones much more, and in black the car is also nicer.<p><A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/volkswagen/passat_05/0primera/gra/04.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/vol...4.asp</A><br><A HREF="http://www.km77.com/marcas/volkswagen/passat_05/0primera/gra/14.asp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.km77.com/marcas/vol...4.asp</A><p>EDIT: more information about versions and standard equipments here: <A HREF="http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050216.005/page/4/lang/eng/volkswagen/1.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.germancarfans.com/n....html</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Reppu at 12:47 PM 2/17/2005</i>

spwolf
02-17-2005, 11:31 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CalinG7</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me it looks OK, though it seems the designers had to use a lot of styling tricks to cover up some not too applealing proportions. Styling over proper design. The previous one, though dated now, was cleaner and more beautiful in its' simplicity, IMO. This one loses that to some extent, like VW really wants to be Japanese or something. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree.<br>From some views (front pics), it looks fantastic, but overall shape does look a bit akward. Interior is the same as well, parts look fantastic and parts dont go together.<p>And rear is just wierd and not fitting for german sedan.<p>It seems as if they are trying to make it sportier and less as an teutonic sedan...

PHYMB
02-17-2005, 12:04 PM
The front to me looks droopy and the door handles look to low. The back is just weak. Not a very fluid design inside and out.

piokor
02-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Here is a pic of the interior with wood and with an automatic transmission:<p> <IMG SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3041214.004/1044.jpg" BORDER="0"> <p>I'm not sure if I like it better, but it's still nice.

SV
02-17-2005, 04:59 PM
well, there's an overdose of wood in that picture. without as much wood trim, IMO it would look better.

Naga Royal Guard
02-17-2005, 05:16 PM
if thats all real, then wow it must cost a hell ofa lot

Soul Man
02-17-2005, 05:26 PM
didnt PETA just have a huge fit with MB about using to many cows to make the leather in their cars, and they actually won (to a degree, im sure theyd rather no leather) i can now see the tree activists going up to VW about this if it is all real

Naga Royal Guard
02-17-2005, 05:27 PM
theres an episode of southpark w/ a PETA village and they were marrying animals <i>and having kids with them </i>

Hornbag
02-18-2005, 12:12 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Naga Royal Guard</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres an episode of southpark w/ a PETA village and they were marrying animals <i>and having kids with them </i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Funny <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1orglaugh.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0">

spwolf
02-18-2005, 10:38 AM
i was really dissapointed to see that alloy wheels are only on top equiped model, while 3 lesser equipment models will have steel wheels...<p>I suspect that it is just an measure to lower the MSRP price while most of them will have optioned alloy wheels :-)

knicks125
02-18-2005, 10:56 AM
steel wheels on the passat...what is this <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0">

spwolf
02-18-2005, 11:06 AM
heh, its european school of thought... lowest engine in Passat will be 100hp 1.6l engine :-).

nismo
02-18-2005, 12:15 PM
The Jetta is gonig to be out way before the Passat... well in the US. The new Jetta should be out within a Month(can be seen on VWoA website). Still haven't heard anything official about the Golf/GTI and the Passat hasn't made its US debut so it will most likely be after the GTI.

Pedigreepaul
02-18-2005, 03:40 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh, its european school of thought... lowest engine in Passat will be 100hp 1.6l engine :-) </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Huh?

piokor
02-21-2005, 05:23 PM
<I>The redesigned Passat features technology normally available only on more expensive vehicles, such as a push-button starting system and adaptive cruise control. The Passat's chrome, shield-shaped radiator grille shows the VW brand's new face.0<B> U.S. sales begin in September.</B></I><p>-www.autoweek.com

knicks125
02-22-2005, 08:14 AM
I thought the Passt was to go on sale June/July <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/1zhelp.gif" BORDER="0">

r0b
02-22-2005, 10:07 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>spwolf</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh, its european school of thought... lowest engine in Passat will be 100hp 1.6l engine :-).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>If there's no sign 1.6...Nobody knows you have the worst engine, but you still have the new passat! -&gt; european school of thought

iakovos
02-22-2005, 11:45 AM
That rear overhang is huge... It seems styled for US rather than Europe.... Passats never sold well in Europe anyway... <p>W8 in that ? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Didn't you learn anything from Phaethon ?<p>&gt; The redesigned Passat features technology normally available only on more expensive vehicles, such as a push-button starting system<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> I never realised that push-button start was such an advanced technology....

Tidal
02-24-2005, 09:23 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iakovos</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That rear overhang is huge... It seems styled for US rather than Europe.... Passats never sold well in Europe anyway... <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Really? In 2004 it was the third in it's class, behind the 3-series and the A4.<br>It outsold The Mondeo, Vectra, Laguna, C-Klass... not bad for a 8 year old car is it...<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iakovos</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">W8 in that ? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/all_coholic.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Didn't you learn anything from Phaethon ?<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>No, there won't be a W8. Top engine will be a 3.2 or a 3.6 V6 engine, with very similar outputs to the W8. And they did learn something from the Phaeton, they wont replace it. Not directly anyway.<p>AMS now has al little video of the Passat. The rear does look a bit heavy, and somewhat out of place but man, those rear lights are cool... click the video link<p><A HREF="http://www.auto-motor-sport-online.de/d/72796/d_ams_news_special_ha" TARGET="_blank">http://www.auto-motor-sport-on...al_ha</A><p>And on VW's german site, you can make your own. Click the Konfigurator option.<p><A HREF="http://showrooms.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/showrooms/de/passat/Der_neue_Passat/highlights/komfort.frameset_outer.html" TARGET="_blank">http://showrooms.volkswagen.de....html</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by DVieira at 4:41 PM 2/24/2005</i>

gcodori
02-25-2005, 05:27 PM
On the VW config site, I put together a sportline with the large TDI. I'm not sure which options I selected (in addition to the climatic and dyna-audio) due to the language barrier...<p>$41K when converted from euros to US currency. OUCH! I know options will be different in the US, but wow.

knicks125
02-25-2005, 05:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gcodori</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$41K when converted from euros to US currency. OUCH! I know options will be different in the US, but wow.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>ouch is correct...the loaded version would be around 30k in the US, and that's way too much for a midsize sedan <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bonk.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>wow is correct...good info thanks

spwolf
02-25-2005, 06:18 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>r0b</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>If there's no sign 1.6...Nobody knows you have the worst engine, but you still have the new passat! -&gt; european school of thought</TD></TR></TABLE><p>haha, yes, thanks for the explaining :-). Same as 3 series, withs its 316, steel wheels and even front electric windows! :-).

alexr15
03-20-2005, 02:24 PM
German Passat commercial...kinda reminiscent of the really great VW commercials where no words are spoken..Here it is <A HREF="http://showrooms.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/showroom/Deutschland/modelle/passat/emosite.Par.0002.File.zip" TARGET="_blank">http://showrooms.volkswagen.de...e.zip</A><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>

piokor
03-20-2005, 07:46 PM
That makes the car look so great. I love everything about this car. I'll be getting a new car this fall, and I've been looking at the Mazda 6, but this looks like a better choice.

knicks125
03-21-2005, 06:26 AM
yeah that's great and all...but i was in the vw lot on sat., i saw a jetta with a sticker price of 26,700, and a passat 32,400 as the sticker price, talk about getting ripped off <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/angry.gif" BORDER="0">

IcedG35
03-21-2005, 11:12 AM
they realllly need to figure out how to put the engine behind the front axle on a FWD car

deltaz
03-22-2005, 01:34 AM
knicks - I saw the car in the recent auto show in Ft Laud and I'm liking it but not liking the price. I used to love VW because they made such great looking cars and were affordable. Now it seems that they've gone up market way too fast and too far. <p>VW needs to get back to the basics. If they do they'll start grabbing market share. I think they've lost sight of who their customers are.

mzoltarp
03-22-2005, 06:35 AM
VW desperately needs to price the Jetta in the Corolla/Civic range and the Passat in the Camry/Accord range. If VW offered a significant performance advantage to warrant the price then no one would complain. I'm a big VW fan but they are making some really dumb moves in the market.

knicks125
03-22-2005, 06:51 AM
I agree...I used to own a 00 jetta (the version where the exhaust points down <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> ) I like the car a lot, built quality top notch, and I enjoyed everything else. The only part I felt cheated was the price, at the time I guess I fell for the German engineering and did not cross shop too much. Since, I have found a great need to do my homework before sign on the dotted line. Yes, if Jetta/Passat can drop their price a bit in the range of their competitors, perhaps I will go back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

r0b
03-22-2005, 09:32 AM
There's an article in german... from autobild<p><A HREF="http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=8386&artikel_seite=0" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autobild.de/test/ne...ite=0</A> <p>The price for the 2.0TDI = 27.210 Euro ~ 35000$!! The price is a bit high...+ too much Audi design!

knicks125
03-23-2005, 07:25 AM
I have a feeling the price you mentioned (35k) will be somewhat similar to the price for the new passat. If that's the case, that would mean the passat would have to compete with cars in the premium category, cars like the G35, or the TL (price wise), and they would have no shot whatsoever. <p>Deltaz made a good point earlier, VW should just go back to the basics, they used to be admired as a car brand, espeically young buyers, myself included, a few years ago; but now, I don't know what they are...they are digging themselves a big whole, at least here in north america...just build a plant in the US, the one in mexico is not going to work

Reppu
03-23-2005, 08:24 AM
Dealers are already showing it in Spain. 2.0 TDI highline with 4 or 5 extras for 29.900 euros, discount applied. THIS is the car i will get......when the DSG option is available in late fall. They let me test a Golf with DSG and man, that's the DE-FI-NI-TI-VE gearbox.

[AP]adiweb
03-24-2005, 11:54 AM
Guys, I don't think the prize is TOO high, i mean just compare it to an A4. Plus: Who needs things like 600Watt stereo system or 18" alloys, or leather interior? good things do cost money, as does a good and powerful engine. If you want a cheaper passat, no matter, even the basis trendline, or comfortline actually has much stuff inside and costs way less than the top models.

knicks125
03-24-2005, 12:02 PM
You compare the passat to the A4? how fair is that? <p>I agree you don't need the above amenities you've mentioned, but have you looked at the competitors' prices, same qualities if not better, for a lot less. Do a little comparison, base vs. base, top trim vs. top trim and you will see why we are saying it's expensive

CalinG7
03-24-2005, 12:35 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Deltaz made a good point earlier, VW should just go back to the basics, they used to be admired as a car brand, espeically young buyers, myself included, a few years ago; but now, I don't know what they are...they are digging themselves a big whole, at least here in north america...just build a plant in the US, the one in mexico is not going to work </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, if they bit the bullet and built a factory in the US, they could start selling their cars at some reasonable prices again, but their unions and the state of Saxony probably wouldn't let them. It's a shame, they were THE brand for young profesionals justa a few years ago. Now they want to be Toyotas in styling and Lexus in pricing. So much for that.

[AP]adiweb
03-24-2005, 02:19 PM
First point: The previous Passat generation was quite the same prize, even more expensive, if you have a look at the better standard equipment.<br>Second point: The previous passat was based on the SAME plattform as the current A4<br>Point 3: Have you already forgotten what VW said about the new passat? "The comfortable and roomier alternative to the A4"....and actually we can even compare the Passat to the old A6, if we want, as it has grown quite a bit to 4.76 m.<br>Point 4: I have been driving in a Passat Highline 2.0 TDI today, and I have to say, that the quality of the materials is not much worse than in the A4, and way better that in a 407 or a Vectra.<br>Point 5: The standard equipment of the Passat is really not bad<br>Point 6: Nobody seems to notice what eg. BMW is doing with the prices. I checked out the new E90, and the interior materials are not worth the prize this car costs. <br>just to compare: We wanted to buy an A4, 102hp petrol engine. Standard equipment + a cd radio + metallic + wood interior trim =&gt; 29.300 <br>Passat Highline 115hp FSI (that has leather, all kind of stuff, that nobody needs, like the rain assistent, light assistent), better crash result, and is 35cm longer! + metallic =&gt; 29.400 <br>And I can easily miss the prestige of an Audi <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/cwm13.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-24-2005, 02:36 PM
thank you for your thoughtful reply...point well taken.<p>One thing I do have to mention is region, here in the NA, A4 and Passat are rarely compared, where A4 is a premium car, the Passat is still mainstream.<p>Also, the Passat can not stack up to the competitons (other midsize main stream family sedans) in many categories

AM2
03-24-2005, 02:48 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>@diweb</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The previous passat was based on the SAME plattform as the current A4<br> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Hmmm... wasn't the previous Passat based on the previous "mid-90's" A4?<br><IMG SRC="http://autooboz.site.kz/foto/audi/audi_a4(1996).jpg" BORDER="0">

Flagship
03-24-2005, 03:12 PM
I love VWs (Might get rid of the old 99 Malibu and get a 2000 Passat) but $30k to $40k for that car is not worth it.Strange direction that VW is taking its almost like they are tryingto kill themselves.

piokor
03-24-2005, 04:56 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, the Passat can not stack up to the competitons (other midsize main stream family sedans) in many categories<br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>How do you figure? The top of the line version of the Passat may be more expensive than the competition, but that's only because the Passat offers a lot of options that others don't. What other categories are you talking about?

knicks125
03-24-2005, 07:57 PM
I did a quick comparison of five family sedans, malibu, accord, camry, sonata, and passat - i didn't include maxima, mazda6, b/c they were a little sportier, and I could only include 5 (max)<p>All 05 models and below are what I have as far as disadvantages on the passat when stacked up against competitor.<p>worst in mileage (19/26 city/hwy), and need premium unleaded so more money spent in gas<p>Smallest in size (exterior)<p>but weight the heaviest<p>smallest interior room<p>least amount of luggage capacity<p>and many more...<p>you are right being the passat has somewhat more amenities than the others, but they are purely optional - meaning anyone could live without them. I'm not against the Passat, it's just that consumers in this market don't care about all these amenities, they are, however, very senstive to price. This is why VW is its dark ages now, at least in the US; having their cars priced so high, regardless of how many features you have, they are not the priority of focus for the consumers in this segment. And, even if consumers were looking for those features and amenitites, they would certaintly move up to premium sedans, such as TL, G35, etc, I did...<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 10:08 PM 3/24/2005</i>

knicks125
03-24-2005, 08:20 PM
Does anyone have information on the 06 Passat price range...if it's anything like this, it would be devastating for the wallets of VW buyers:<p>believe your eyes - 29,238K for the 06 Jetta<p><IMG SRC="http://ericfilcoff.com/pictures/Jetta5_02.jpg" BORDER="0">

JBlair
03-24-2005, 10:45 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone have information on the 06 Passat price range...if it's anything like this, it would be devastating for the wallets of VW buyers:<p>believe your eyes - 29,238K for the 06 Jetta<p><IMG SRC="http://ericfilcoff.com/pictures/Jetta5_02.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I believe that picture is misleading, because it shows some $2500 in dealer installed options. (unless I am reading it incorrectly, which I do not believe I am). And you also must understand, the top Jetta overlaps directly with the very base Passat, so this price shouldn't seem unusual.

Andre
03-25-2005, 12:14 AM
Considering the Jetta's closest competiton tops out at $10,000 less than that, it's damned pricey<p><br>*** Not counting the 22k Civic Hybrid, but even that is 7k less, and I consider Hondas overpriced!!!!!

knicks125
03-25-2005, 09:35 AM
I agree with you being the top Jetta overlapping with the base Passat, regardless, it's too damn expensive, as Andre pointed out...I remembered when I had my Jetta, the top version was only in the mid 20s

AM2
03-25-2005, 11:54 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I believe that picture is misleading, because it shows some $2500 in dealer installed options. (unless I am reading it incorrectly, which I do not believe I am). </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Misleading?<br>MSRP $26,740 plus dealer package equals ---&gt; $29,238! <p>For under $28,000 you can get other compact/mid-size premium sedans like the Volvo S40 T5, Acura TSX, Audi A4 2.0T FWD, Saab 9-3 Linear 2.0T<br> <br>I think the Jetta is expensive... I thought manufacturing it in Mexico would make it more affordable?<p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by AM2 at 3:09 AM 3/26/2005</i>

spwolf
03-25-2005, 12:00 PM
What VW is trying to do is position Jetta as Camry/Accord fighter, and move up Passat (Avalon?)...<p>I dont think it will work long term - because Jetta wont have enough space to compete with Camry and Accord...

knicks125
03-25-2005, 02:49 PM
so from the above, 35k, or even upper 30s wouldn't be a bad estimate for a top of the line Passat, would it?

mzoltarp
03-26-2005, 07:24 AM
Even 25-26k for the 5 cyl Jetta is ridiculous. If we were talking VR6 or the turbo loaded with every option for that price, that would be another story, but the 5 cylinder has been criticized in the major car magazines for being slow. I am a big VW fanatic, but the Passat does not stack up to the Camry and Accord. A fully optioned Accord or Camry will have virtually the same level of options as the Passat for 2-5k less. A fully optioned Passat is in the same league as the Avalon, Acura TL group and yet is not in their league. VW will have an initial bump in sales as the VW loyalists go out and buy new sheetmetal, but ultimately they will have problems because they are not directly competitive. The Passat competes in the same range as the Hyundai Sonata and a fully optioned Sonata may hit 26k and a full-boat Passat (non AWD) will easily go for 34-35. The VW just isn't 8-10k better and it certainly does not have the Hyundai's reliability record. Sad days for VW.

Toxic
03-28-2005, 09:06 AM
wow,this is the only VW I would like to own

knicks125
03-28-2005, 09:14 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Twisted</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow,this is the only VW I would like to own</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I remember a few years ago Passat had the edge over the other midsize sedans as German engineered car with a touch of luxury that people are willing to spend an extra 2-3K to purchase. Now, Accords, Camrys, Sonatas, Altimas are just as good, if not better, for a lot less in price...for the Passat, and Jetta, and VW, everything's way out of hand. If a top version of the Passat does go 34 or 35K, I'd be certain Passat would not survive very long, all of the other competing vehichles are well under 30K (top trims). The new Sonata would be the lowest at somewhere around 23 - 24K, the Camry next, followed by the Accord (not the hybrid version), and Altima, I think, tops out in the upper 20s, for its top version. Agree with mzoltarp, truly, "sad days for VW".

Nodnarb
03-28-2005, 11:35 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>believe your eyes - 29,238K for the 06 Jetta<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>29,238K?!?! Who in their right mind would spend 29 million on a Jetta? Think of the Maybachs and houses you could get with that. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-28-2005, 11:48 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Nodnarb</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>29,238K?!?! Who in their right mind would spend 29 million on a Jetta? Think of the Maybachs and houses you could get with that. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>opps...nice catch there <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>you posed a good question, "who in their mind would spend 29k on a Jetta?" <p>Answer: people who don't know about cars, or just buying the badge, or they are just crazy

SV
03-28-2005, 12:34 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>you posed a good question, "who in their mind would spend 29k on a Jetta?" <p>Answer: people who don't know about cars, or just buying the badge, or they are just crazy</TD></TR></TABLE><p>well, the jetta is a very good car, but i agree, $29k is too much (the base jetta's price is reasonable though)

ixocean
03-28-2005, 04:04 PM
<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/pukeface.gif" BORDER="0"> <br><IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ixocean/Jetta5_02.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><br>If anyone pays a "Market Adjustment" to a dealer they are an idiot! A local dealer is doing this on VW and so I'll be taking my business 80 miles east to Fort Lauderdale where the dealer is selling just over invoice.<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0">

knicks125
03-28-2005, 05:19 PM
Right on. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"><p>but i'm not sure if average consumers will figure this and other similar (extra) costs out...considering how well-spoke those sales rep are about hiding those costs with savings/bonus etc <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0">

deltaz
03-31-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm afraid VW doesn't understand that they can't expect to sell more cars with higher prices and comparable optioned vehicle. They used to stand out when they were ahead in terms of design and technology. Now they have fierce competition in the space they once ruled. I still like the brand but not as much since they went bug crazy and stopped acting like a middle market car company. <p>Why they thougt bringing the phateon over here would help them sell more passats or jettas is beyond me. Which is why I say they've lost their way. We've seen so many other car companies go that way. Too bad. Really.

erzhik
03-31-2005, 04:43 PM
The new Passat is SWEET...<p>But Jetta and Passat looks same.... strange

Reppu
03-31-2005, 10:43 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>deltaz</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm afraid VW doesn't understand that they can't expect to sell more cars with higher prices and comparable optioned vehicle. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I guess it depends on the country. A Passat 2.0 TDI highline has a price tag of 29.640 euros in Spain. That's really a few more than any other top version of it's competitors with similar engines, if more at all. You can argue about standard equipment but that would be disputable and extra equipment prices are quite adjusted as well. Yoy can have a Passat highline with DSG and some extras for around 32.000 euros, and that is quite a reasonable price for Spain. Yes, more than a Laguna or a C5, but better car as well imo. A Mondeo Titanium (that's the top version here), starts from 30.160 euros, and the standard equipment is more or less the same, (comes with xenon but without ESP or cruise control which are standard in the Passat). <p>Be sure that the Passat will sell very well here. Certainly is the car i'm aiming for.

knicks125
04-01-2005, 05:15 AM
Reppu, you are abosultely correct being the Passat as a good seller in Europe, in fact, it will be a good seller in most other markets. However, that said, being that the NA market is so competitive, espeically with the big three still dominating the market share (despite their so-so products), and competition from asian carmakers undercutting the competition, at least in VW pricing standards, VW can be a lot attractive and can sold a lot more, here in the NA, if the price can be lowered.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 9:17 AM 4/1/2005</i>

sc43018
04-04-2005, 01:28 PM
at VW today and the guy wanted almost $35K (US) for the jetta..... it had a few options (spoiler, rims, etc.) but wow! i thought $30K+ was passat territory

knicks125
04-04-2005, 05:31 PM
more evidence why vw has gone crazy, at least in the US.<p>maybe they are trying to be a premium brand, but then there is audi <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0">

deltaz
04-04-2005, 07:03 PM
Here are the latest sales numbers for March '05. There are a lot of brands whose sales are off compared to last year. Unfortunately VW is among one of the brands not in the plus column. As their prices continue their upward momentum I predict they will see even more market space erosion.<br><A HREF="http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/sales-cht12e_20050402.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.freep.com/money/aut...2.htm</A><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by deltaz at 8:52 PM 4/4/2005</i>

iakovos
04-05-2005, 09:38 AM
The Passat doesn't sell very well in Europe either.... only the Golf and The Polo are very succesfull

Santeno
04-05-2005, 09:58 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>sc43018</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">at VW today and the guy wanted almost $35K (US) for the jetta..... it had a few options (spoiler, rims, etc.) but wow! i thought $30K+ was passat territory</TD></TR></TABLE><br>He's just probably trying to squeeze the market. I just checked the VW site and they list the MSRP a couple of grand below $25K. For $35K I would have told him to piss off, and made sure his manager knew that I was now on my way to the Lexus or BMW dealership. I can't believe that car manufacturers in this day and age continue to allow dealerships to gouge costumers in such a manner.

Comrade
04-05-2005, 10:09 AM
<br> <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> Value Edition 2.5L 150 HP 5-speed manual $ 17,900 <br> <br> 2.5L 150 HP 6-speed automatic Tiptronic $ 18,975 <br> <br> <br> 2.5L 150 HP 5-speed manual $ 20,390 <br> <br> 2.5L 150 HP 6-speed automatic Tiptronic $ 21,465 <br> <br> 1.9L TDI 100 HP1 5-speed manual $ 21,385 <br> <br> 1.9L TDI 100 HP1 6-speed automatic Tiptronic $ 22,460 <br> <br> Destination Charge (subject to change, add to all orders) $ 615 <br> <p> <br> 1 - The TDI engine is a diesel engine. Diesel engines are not available for sale in Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, New York or California.<br> <p>OPTIONS<br> <br> 2.5 / TDI Package #1<br>Includes Sunroof, 16'' alloy wheels, and Premium Sound System $ 1,960 <br> <br> Package #2 (with XM)<br>Includes Package #1, plus Leather seating surfaces, multifunction steering wheel, shift knob, handbrake grip, interior wood trim (dash, center console, doors, and shift knob), HomeLink, power driver seat w/memory, power passenger seat, manual rear sunshade, and Satellite Radio (activation/3 months service) <B>$ 4,660 </B><br></TD></TR></TABLE><br> <br>source: <A HREF="http://www.vw.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.vw.com</A><p><br>It's nicely equiped with the 2nd package. 35k is actually twice the price of the base model. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/eek2.gif" BORDER="0"> What a rip-off! <br> <p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Comrade at 10:31 AM 4/5/2005</i>

knicks125
04-05-2005, 10:50 AM
The one I test drove was nicely equipped:<p>2.5L 150 HP 6-speed automatic Tiptronic $ 21,465 <br>Destination Charge (subject to change, add to all orders) $ 615<br>Package #2 (with XM) $ 4,660<p>Total MSRP = $26,740<p>It's a nice little compact car but it ain't worth $26,740, not even close...thanks but no thanks!<br>

[AP]adiweb
04-05-2005, 11:14 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>iakovos</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Passat doesn't sell very well in Europe either.... only the Golf and The Polo are very succesfull</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Who says that? The Passat always sold very well, it was very long on the 3rd position in the ranking. Then, in the last 2 years, the Passat was really getting old somehow and so sales decreased. The old Passat still was on position 6 last month, which is not too bad i guess.

kevinb120
04-08-2005, 11:47 PM
I'm not a huge fan of the new 'goatee' look of VW/Audi, but I think its a pretty sharp car, sans the rediculously enormous VW emblems. They are bigger then the pimp 1980's Mercedes grille(and rapper necklace) decor. I don't think any manufacturer's marque is anywhere remotely close to that size, what are they trying to say with that??? You would think here they would make it small as possible so it could be mistaken for an Audi <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>The Passat has been successful from dancing a VERY thin tightrope of pricing and features versus its competition, hopefully they don't price themselves out of the market. Americans love their status symbols, and the will pick BMW emblems over giant VW ones in a heartbeat if the payments are the same.

DSC-OFF
08-02-2005, 07:09 AM
<IMG SRC="http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,217338,00.jpg" BORDER="0"> <IMG SRC="http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,217340,00.jpg" BORDER="0"> <IMG SRC="http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,217339,00.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><i>For the past month or so Volkswagen has been in serious bother. An insider went to the German press and claimed the whole company was a hotbed of sex, bribery, corruption, hookers and champagne-fuelled orgies on private jets. <p>It all sounded a bit far-fetched to be honest, the notion that the makers of the Golf diesel, with its sensible seats and big boot, could be a corporate version of the mafia. But blow me down. Heads have begun to roll. Executives have started to resign. <p>This is extraordinary  Volkswagen is more powerful than half the worlds countries. It owns Audi, Seat, Skoda and Bentley and employs 340,000 people. It makes 5m cars and turns over 60 billion every year. And its run by my old friend Burnt Fish Trousers, whos a model of decency, dignity and good old-fashioned manners. <p>Yet the essence of the story, so far as I can tell, is that trade union leaders, who in Germany have a great deal of power, have allegedly been flown round the world on company jets and given 20,000 company vouchers that they can use to pay for exotic escort girls and lap dancers. And then, in return, the Red Robboes are supposed to let the company reform its expensive labour policy. <p>Frankly, I cant see whats wrong with that. If Mrs Thatcher had put Arthur Scargill on a private jet full of naked Vietnamese girls, an awful lot of stone throwing and angst would surely have been avoided. Its possible also that we would still have a car industry if Sir Michael Edwardes had shovelled vast quantities of drugs up the noses of those lunatic trade unionists at British Leyland. <p>Money, sex and drugs: theyre a Dyno-Rod dynamite tripod when it comes to unblocking negotiations that have stalled. Id suggest teaming them with a spot of bribery and blackmail. Most men will give in on almost all they hold dear if you have photographs of them semi-submerged in a Portuguese lap dancer. <p>Its corruption like this on which the entire Italian economy is founded, and its corruption like this that could solve the Iraqi problem at a stroke. <p>The cost to the American government since the conflict began is put by some observers at 100 billion. And they could have given everyone in Iraq a small car for less than that. Actually, with an order of that size, I suspect discounts might well have been available, so it could have been a large car or even an SUV. <p>This is bribery, of course, but whats wrong with that? It would have saved 25,000 lives, made everyone over there happy, removed the motive for the London bombings and thus saved Britain 3 billion. Furthermore, it would have provided a much-needed boost for the beleaguered American motor industry. Make cars, not war. Thats what I say. <p>No really. The United Nations and the world of rocknroll are consumed at the moment with how corrupt African leaders might be dissuaded from stealing all the aid. Simple: give them all a golden Rolls-Royce and ask them to look the other way when the food parcels arrive. <p>And so we arrive back with Volkswagen, wondering who has suffered if all the allegations turn out to be correct. If German labour laws are changed, VW makes more money, which is good for shareholders; Europe gets cheaper cars, which is good for everyone; a few union leaders get laid and some hookers get paid. Everyone wins. <p>Theres also talk, strongly denied by VW, of dummy corporations set up to smooth their entry into new markets such as Angola, which apparently have been funded by suppliers who need Volkswagen for their survival. And again, whats wrong with that? Suppliers would stay in business and Angola would get Golfs instead of oxen. If Mercedes or Renault see this as unfair competition  well, instead of wailing and gnashing their teeth maybe they should stop being so sanctimonious and get down to Spearmint Rhino with a pocket full of blank cheques. <p>There is, however, a drawback to this plan. In the same way that General Motors makes lousy cars because it spends most of its time and effort running the company pension scheme, and McLaren only wins races when its not busy building road cars, the bigwigs at VW were obviously not paying attention when the new Passat was being developed. <p>But then I suppose its hard to think about rear axle configuration when youve got a face full of Brazilian and your bank managers on the phone asking what you want him to do with this weeks gold ingot. <p>If you thought the last Passat was dull to behold, you really aint seen nothing yet. This new one is sculptured ditchwater. <b>It looks like it was styled by someone who was either in a big hurry to get the job done or who was having sex at the time</b>. As a result, it is the motoring equivalent of Belgium: something you simply wont notice. <p>Underneath the dreary skin the news is no better. It sits on a strengthened version of the Golfs platform and is powered by a selection of Golf and Audi engines. Plainly the engineer in charge just raided the parts bin and then went back to the George V in Paris with the lovely Lucinda. <p>Apparently the best configuration you can buy is the 140bhp 2 litre turbodiesel allied to the double clutch DSG flappy paddle gearbox. But really, choosing the best from a range like this is like choosing what sort of wallpaper paste youd most like to eat. It is a little bigger than the old Passat but thanks to extensive use of aluminium its no heavier. So fuel consumption will be about the same as before. They couldnt even be bothered to think up new prices so it costs the same as before as well. <p>To drive, I will say it is a little better, although like all German cars the ride is too firm at slow speeds. Mind you, this is offset to some extent by really comfortable seats. If you suffer from a bad back youll like them a lot. <p>There is some other stuff youll like as well, if Im honest, like the hazard warning lights that come on automatically if the antilock brakes have been engaged for more than two seconds. And the umbrella built into the drivers door, and the Bluetooth connection, although if you were attracted to the Passat because of your backache, chances are youll be too old for this feature to have any meaning. <p>You will also like the sun visors that work on the side windows and the windscreen at the same time, the air-conditioned glove box that prevents your Werthers Originals from melting and, best of all, the towel that lives in the boot and can be draped over the rear bumper when you need a clean place to sit when donning your wellies. <p>To drive, I will say it is a little better, although like all German cars the ride is too firm at slow speeds. Mind you, this is offset to some extent by really comfortable seats. If you suffer from a bad back youll like them a lot. <p>There is some other stuff youll like as well, if Im honest, like the hazard warning lights that come on automatically if the antilock brakes have been engaged for more than two seconds. And the umbrella built into the drivers door, and the Bluetooth connection, although if you were attracted to the Passat because of your backache, chances are youll be too old for this feature to have any meaning. <p>You will also like the sun visors that work on the side windows and the windscreen at the same time, the air-conditioned glove box that prevents your Werthers Originals from melting and, best of all, the towel that lives in the boot and can be draped over the rear bumper when you need a clean place to sit when donning your wellies. <p>In other words there are lots of rather useful small features in the Passat, all of which have been provided by suppliers who, if the stories are true, are now to be found at Le Touessrok in Mauritius sipping cold drinks with the buyers at Volkswagen. <p>A classic case of bribery working. VW executives get a free holiday in the sun. The suppliers keep on employing their staff. And you keep your trousers clean when youve come back from a refreshing walk in the countryside. <p>I must say that overall the Passat is a dreary and boring car. But it does have just enough attention to detail to make it a worthwhile buy for those who dont care about cutting a dash. Except of course all these people already have a Honda Accord and theyre jolly happy with it.</i><p>Too political..cant wait to see it on BBC<p>Source: <A HREF="http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1713435,00.html" TARGET="_blank">TimeOnline</A>

drugmirko
08-02-2005, 09:44 AM
I like the Belgium part.... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0">

Krypton
08-02-2005, 10:09 AM
yea, i saw a truckload of the them at a rest area on the highway, they looked good but i didnt know they were on sale yet

against the wall
08-02-2005, 10:30 AM
i read somewhere that the passats went on sale about a week ago.

knicks125
08-02-2005, 01:00 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bonzos montreaux</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i read somewhere that the passats went on sale about a week ago.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The new passat is now available at your local dealer, base MSRP to start at 23k and change<p>40k and change for a loaded version<p>Does anyone else think the Passat and the A4 is overlapping a bit, at least in prices <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 4:49 PM 8/2/2005</i>

SV
08-02-2005, 05:18 PM
edmunds gave the passat a very positive review, and mentioned that the old car is "far inferior" to the new one.<p><A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106641" TARGET="_blank">http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...06641</A><p>a $22,950 base price isn't bad; in fact, it's lower than what i was expecting. i figured the '06 passat would have about a $1k increase over the '05, but it's nice to see prices are more or less the same. i wish the V6 was cheaper, but the 4-cylinder engine has about as much power as a few V6s in this class anyway (camry LE and XLE, malibu)

Reppu
08-02-2005, 11:01 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bonzos montreaux</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i read somewhere that the passats went on sale about a week ago.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I bought my TDI 2.0 DSG over a month ago... yes it is on sale indeed, at least in Spain <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/banana.gif" BORDER="0"> . If anyone wants to know how it goes, i will have it by the end of september, so no first hand reviews yet.

HondaTech
08-02-2005, 11:14 PM
The style is too similar to Japanese cars. The old one is more unique.

HondaTech
08-02-2005, 11:25 PM
The "estate" is kinda cool though

DoMiNo
08-03-2005, 09:46 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The new passat is now available at your local dealer, base MSRP to start at 23k and change<p>40k and change for a loaded version<p>Does anyone else think the Passat and the A4 is overlapping a bit, at least in prices <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br><i>Modified by knicks125 at 4:49 PM 8/2/2005</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Sweet Lord!!!! Have they no shame?!?!

SV
08-03-2005, 09:56 AM
the base price is about the same as the old passat though, so that isn't too bad (IMO). what bugs me is that the V6 bases as $30k, although the four-cylinder has 200 hp anyway.

DoMiNo
08-03-2005, 10:15 AM
Yeah, 280hp is no champion, these days. I can get 280 in an Avalon. Hell, for $40K I can get a 300C loaded to the gills, with change to spare.

Dahlis
08-03-2005, 11:11 AM
I think VW is aiming to high, the world does not see them as a luxury brand. They should try to make cheap and simple cars instead.

Reppu
08-03-2005, 11:44 PM
I do not agree with DoMiNo with respect the importance of bph. Power output is not really a selling point in Europe, not anymore. People here don't care if his diesel engine gives 136 or 150bph, or if they have 260 instead of 280bhp under their right foot. They care about the gadgets and equipment instead. And regarding that, VWs are the best cars of their category. With that, i mean that they are the very top of the not-premium brands. And the price of a VW is still way lower that the one of a MB, a BMW, a Volvo, etc, giving much more in return IMO.

Swallow Doretti
08-04-2005, 01:01 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">40k and change for a loaded version</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's not quite $40K for a loaded Passat--actually, it's closer to about $39K with every single option. That's also a LOT of options: AWD, navigation, laser-guided cruise control, keyless start, and electromagnetic parking brake, among other things.<p>The new Passat should do well, assuming VW has set some realistic sales expectations for it.

tek2k
08-05-2005, 12:48 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dahlis</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think VW is aiming to high, the world does not see them as a luxury brand. They should try to make cheap and simple cars instead.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>definitely. what are they trying to do? what's the point of audi then?

Hornbag
08-05-2005, 01:21 AM
Im still trying to get over the Phaeton. I absolutly love it, but VW is like the Toyota of Australia (so im told). <p>They have Audi and Beltley to take care of luxury, they need to lower it a bit, like well above Ford, but below BMW.

Reppu
08-05-2005, 03:27 AM
That is actually what they are doing: they want to be the best and most luxury of the non-premium cars, being those MB, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Lexus and maybe Saab. I am refering to european market only.

taskbearer
08-06-2005, 08:53 PM
American buyers fail to understand the essentials behind the Passat. I do admit that their market positioning of the Jetta is outright disastrous, but the new passat is so much better and the price is not too high. The passat is slightly above a mormal midsize car, but truly is on par with the top luxury cars just without the image that comes with those cars. <p>Comparing the passat to a charger or 300 is misgiuded. There's no way those cars can match the luxury feel of the VW. The interiors of those cars still feel as cheap as many american cars, not the same with the passat which feels like a phaeton. I personally see the V6 model as a better alternative to the avalon with a touch more youthfullness and far more elegant styling.<p>Horsepower is not everything. I see americans love huge Hp ratings that they would most likely never use. In europe the base passat is a 110hp 1.9TDi, thats a sharp contrast to the US base car of 200hp. Its clear that the buyers are very different, but that does not create a requisite to squash the car. <p>Reppu explained it well. People buy the passat for its gadgets and not the HP. Europeans are willing to pay more for a well built car no matter the HP or the size, thats why you can see a really small renault Modus with similar equipment options to what you get in an S-class.<p>I am definite that this car would be a success in the US, in europe that is almost certain as it has put life back into a dying segment. Arguably the best engineered VW so far and its also the smartest priced VW in the US yet.

Hornbag
08-06-2005, 09:32 PM
Well said taskbearer!<p>I think the Passat will sell well in Australia. The one now is very bland in contrast to this amazing car. A mini Pheaton! I just hope they price at a similar level to the current car in Aus (which starts at $50,000)...

drugmirko
08-07-2005, 02:56 AM
yep... you're right about one thing! American and U.S. buyers are completely different! Passat's segment in Europe is not dying. it is one of most important segments and Passat is not VW's attempt to enter premium class no more as Ford's Mondeo is. they all try to better their cars with each generation mainly because stiff competition. and if it gets to the level of latest premium models, so much for the better...<br>I don't have much experience with American cars. except for Cherokies, American family sized cars are rear birds, at least in my part of Europe. they all failed mainly because of that difference of buyer's taste in practically everything... from perception of car's size, it's equipment, materials and engines. diesel engines have almost 50% of sales in EU. I guess that for average American buyer having a diesel engine in his family saloon is almost incomprehensible... we love them! they have excellent fuel economy (which is good thing minding the fuel prices in Europe), s*it load of torque and decent horse power to go with... they are far from their atmospheric stinking&smoking ancestors and VW has one of the finest in their Passat. and taking all of that in notion, Passat is just one of average mid sized family cars in Europe. currently slightly better than it's competition, because it is the newest. <br>and to evilly point out general European perception of Passat as a premium class car... here's what Mr Jeremy C. has to say about it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/icon11.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> :<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>J.Clarkson; Top Gear magazine</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you thought the last Passat was dull to behold, you really aint seen nothing yet. This new one is sculptured ditchwater. It looks like it was styled by someone who was either in a big hurry to get the job done or who was having sex at the time. As a result, it is the motoring equivalent of Belgium: something you simply wont notice. <br></TD></TR></TABLE>

knicks125
08-07-2005, 10:18 AM
Everyone has made valid point(s) about US and European buyers. I like the new Passat a lot but one thing that is holding back the US spec is the price. I just can't put VW on the same level as BMW, Acura, Lexus, MB, Infinti, etc, that's where I believe Audi comes into play. Despite VW's two high-end products, Phaeton and Touareg, the brand is still viewed mostly as entry-level by many here in the US. As for the Passat, competing with the likes of Camry, Accord, Sonata, Altima and others, in a class where price is one of the most imporant factors and a sensitive market, it is hard for VW. Many features in the Passat, although desired by some and are nice features, are not top prorities for mainstream midsize sedan buyers. <p>On the other hand, if you move up the Passat up one level and compare it to the likes of TL, G35, 3er, and others, in my opinion, game over. This is why both the Jetta and the Passat suffer, and both are in delicate situations, as both are too expensive for mainstream buyers, and not given much chance for premium sedan buyers. This is another factor why VW has not really succeeded much since its entrance into the US. <p>According the graph below, VW sales in the US are only 11th among import nameplates, behind Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Lexus, Mazda, BMW, Acura, MB, year-to-date.<p><IMG SRC="http://www.aiada.org/images/news_photos/July_Sales_AIADA.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Source: AIADA

The Kia Man
08-08-2005, 07:32 AM
Some pics:<p><IMG SRC="http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3434/8855128105fd.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3096/88551284101ln.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8199/885512101208my.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>Source: Autocar

DoMiNo
08-08-2005, 08:14 AM
Well said Knicks.<p>I think I neglected to clarify in my earlier post that I was speaking specifically about North American buyers. The Passat simply doesn't have the reputation (outside of the automotive press) to justify such a high price.<p>Now, the fact of the matter is that most people see the Passat as a competitor to mid-size family sedans like Accord, Camry... maybe TL. Americans don't usually mention "volkswagen" and "premium" in the same breath. Outside of a horsepower deficiency (even if it is simply perceived)--and we've all concluded hp is important to US buyers--VW is convinced this is a luxury automobile when it really shouldn't be. They're stepping on Audi's toes here and I'm not sure where that's going to get them. The Phaeton has already proven in America that the VW nameplate doesn't have the cachet that they thought it did. Take a hint.<p>Factor in VW's mediocre quality/reliability ratings and it's hard to make a case (again, in <I>America</I>) for this car.<p>It's easy to see why, on that graph, VW sales are on the decline. Only the industry's horror stories--Jaguar, Mitsubishi, and Isuzu--have suffered greater declines (%).

Roadster44
08-08-2005, 03:47 PM
More than 28k for top of the line Passat is too much. Compare that with Maxima, top of the line Accord and Camry which are not as pricey and just as well equipped. <p>I think Passat could do a lot better if they would include two high end features on low to mid spec cars. That would give that "value for money" type of a feeling to customers. Otherwise customers won't see the sense in spending 25k for a car that doesn't have as much as an Accord. I understand A4, BMW 3er, G35 those cars have an image, Passat unfortunately is lacking in that department. <p>Good product, but overpriced by 2-3k, needs more features on low end models.<p>Jetta on other hand is doing surpisingly well as I predicted.<p>As for VW stepping on Audi's toes...not the case at all. Audi is sport and high tech and extrovert styling. So that argument is dead.

SV
08-08-2005, 04:06 PM
maybe i'm being ignorant, but since when was $28k for a loaded midsize sedan too much? also, the new passat is priced about the same as the old one, maybe even slightly lower (i remember that the old passat was listed slightly above $23k for the base model, and the new one is slightly below that). when you take into account the fact that the $28k is for a loaded 4-cylinder, then maybe you're right, but i think it's also worth noting that the passat four-cylinder has more horsepower than the camry LE and XLE V6 (under the new rating system, at least), and as much power as a malibu V6.<p>i do agree with domino, though, that volkswagen really needs to work on reliability with its cars, but the sales decline is mostly thanks to older models and the fact that VW isn't keeping up with incentives, isn't it? i could be wrong, but i know this was the case about a year ago.

AM2
08-08-2005, 04:12 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but i think it's also worth noting that the passat four-cylinder has more horsepower than the camry LE and XLE V6 (under the new rating system, at least), and as much power as a malibu V6. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>How does the loaded Passat 2.0T compare to the closest priced Accord V6?<p>By the way is the 280bhp horsepower raiting of the V6 Passat using the new system? <br>

SV
08-08-2005, 04:32 PM
i was only saying that the 2.0T was at least somewhat competitive with most V6 rivals, i didn't say it would beat them all. at any rate, IMO the new passat is a better value than the old one, considering it's roomier, more powerful, better to drive, and about the same price as before.

phaeton
08-08-2005, 05:56 PM
<B>Hornbag</B> The Passat for OZ is expected to start at 40,000 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> VW have been price stucturing for better sales and it's working I see so many new Golfs. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bow.gif" BORDER="0">

taskbearer
08-08-2005, 09:29 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>AM2</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How does the loaded Passat 2.0T compare to the closest priced Accord V6?<p>By the way is the 280bhp horsepower raiting of the V6 Passat using the new system? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Using HP ratings to gauge the passat can be very misleading. The 2.0 might have only 200hp, but it goes head to head with all competitors V6s, thats because the Passat is a lightweight compared to competitors.<p>0-60mph Acceleration times for 2.0TFSi is 7.3s, this compares well with the 245hp V6 Altima's 7.1s, 233hp V6 Sonata's 7.5s, 240hp V6 accord's 7.3s. That puts the 2.0L 4cyl passat in the same class as the V6 of rivals, not to mention class leading fuel economy.<br> <br>Entry price for the 2.0TFSi is 23k and a well equiped version can be had for slightly under 25k, while fully loaded would cost about 32k.<p>Compared to a starting price for the accord V6 at 26k and fully loaded at about 30k. <p>That pricing looks pretty reasonable and competitive to me, thats why I still say this is the smartest priced(best value) VW ever in the US. The passat V6 is is a class of its own and would leave rival V6s in the dust with its 0-60mph sprint of 6.6s. The 2.0 is the true competitor to the other V6s. If you look at it that way, the price of the passat starts to make a lot of sense.

nismo
08-08-2005, 10:00 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using HP ratings to gauge the passat can be very misleading. The 2.0 might have only 200hp, but it goes head to head with all competitors V6s, thats because the Passat is a lightweight compared to competitors.<p>0-60mph Acceleration times for 2.0TFSi is 7.3s, this compares well with the 245hp V6 Altima's 7.1s, 233hp V6 Sonata's 7.5s, 240hp V6 accord's 7.3s. That puts the 2.0L 4cyl passat in the same class as the V6 of rivals, not to mention class leading fuel economy.<br> <br>Entry price for the 2.0TFSi is 23k and a well equiped version can be had for slightly under 25k, while fully loaded would cost about 32k.<p>Compared to a starting price for the accord V6 at 26k and fully loaded at about 30k. <p>That pricing looks pretty reasonable and competitive to me, thats why I still say this is the smartest priced(best value) VW ever in the US. The passat V6 is is a class of its own and would leave rival V6s in the dust with its 0-60mph sprint of 6.6s. The 2.0 is the true competitor to the other V6s. If you look at it that way, the price of the passat starts to make a lot of sense.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Is that a manual 2.0fsi 0-60 time? If it is then the manual Altima 3.5SE and manual Accord V6 have 6.0 sec 0-60 times.... That is good but not class leading. I also find it hard to believe the Passat weighs less considering the Jetta probably weighs as much as a mid-size.<p>This is an improvement no doubt but theres way better buys out there.<p>I hope VW gets into their heads that they're no luxo brand in the US soon. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0">

JBlair
08-08-2005, 10:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nismo</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is that a manual 2.0fsi 0-60 time? If it is then the manual Altima 3.5SE and manual Accord V6 have 6.0 sec 0-60 times.... That is good but not class leading. I also find it hard to believe the Passat weighs less considering the Jetta probably weighs as much as a mid-size.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>The Passat weighs 3151 pounds equipped with the 4-cylinder, while the Accord V6 weighs between 3349 and 3384 pounds, and the Nissan ranges from 3243 pounds to 3377 pounds. And yes, the Jetta weighs more than the new Passat. (what VW was thinking I'll never know).

zwei Biere bitte
08-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Not to mention the earlier mentioned Accord with a manual is the coupe... as far as I know, only the Coupe is avalible with both a V6 and a manual. The sedan can only be had manual when the engine is the 4 cylinder.

Hornbag
08-09-2005, 03:52 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phaeton</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>Hornbag</B> The Passat for OZ is expected to start at 40,000 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well VW! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bowdown.gif" BORDER="0"> Im telling nan to get one, to replace her Liberty! She has always wanted a German, and VW has finally cut the price and made the Passat better looking, FANTASTIC JOB VW!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>

taskbearer
08-09-2005, 10:15 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>The Passat weighs 3151 pounds equipped with the 4-cylinder, while the Accord V6 weighs between 3349 and 3384 pounds, and the Nissan ranges from 3243 pounds to 3377 pounds. And yes, the Jetta weighs more than the new Passat. (what VW was thinking I'll never know).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I too wonder what VW was thinking. The Jetta is a very poorly executed car and the fact that it is heavier is even more profound if you consider the fact that the Passat is not only bigger, but is the most rigid car in its class....to be exact, only the RollsRoyce Phantom and VW's own Phaeton beat it in rigidity.<p>I blame the jetta's weight to that annoying and foolish old tech iron block inline 5. I belive the 2.0TFSi version of the jetta would be much lighter than the base model. Despite the cost cutting move with that old fashioned engine, the Jetta does not seem any cheaper.

Roadster44
08-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Just topped out top of the line Accord at $32k and Camry at $30k. All of a sudden Passat doesn't seem like such a bad buy. Problem is with the perception and fact that most dealers tend to push their most expensive models (which is most of their inventory) and customers begin to think that Passat is too expensive. Then you never hear about the affordable versions.<p>Other reason why VW has been doing poorly in sales, is due to their appaling dealer network. Their commission sucks and therefore all the good sales staff tends to move elsewhere, so in the end they're left with kids and amateurs who are simply there for a short time while they find a better job.

knicks125
08-09-2005, 05:13 PM
My fit against the new Passat is its price. Correct me if I am mistaken but it almost seems the new Passat is trying to position itself in both the midsize and the flagship class, in prices. Starting from 23k, and goes all the way to near 40k loaded, there is a big range. To me, it's almost like the Passat is competing aganist Camry/Avalon, Altima/Maxima, Sonata/Azera and others all at the same time. Some tough competition it's got there...

zwei Biere bitte
08-09-2005, 05:19 PM
Well for what you get, the new Passat is one of the best deals around... Many features that are optional on other midsizers are standard on the Passat...

knicks125
08-09-2005, 06:38 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well for what you get, the new Passat is one of the best deals around... Many features that are optional on other midsizers are standard on the Passat... </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Examples please.<p>Remember, price sensitivity is very important in this class, a sharp increase could very well turn away some valuable customers. Also, many customers in this class do not desire too much about some of the options, reliabilty and safety espeically are much more important than amenities.

Soul Man
08-09-2005, 06:45 PM
but what you also have to remember is that this car is really quite big, id say bigger than your avg mid size family sedan, and almost ot the same size (maybe a bit smaller) thant many large family sedans. when you compare it to those the price ends up being a bit cheaper if im not mistaken, and with the extra options that are standard on the passat, although when you anti up to the v6 which puts it more in line with those large sedan powertrains, the price does end up being a bit more equal. Though i still feel this car really should give the 3-series, a4, g, etc. a run for their money when it comes to grabbing luxury shoppers, sport luxury shoppers on the other hand (which most of the above mentioned cars are more targeted to, but in reality i think the majority entry level luxury sedan buyer really cares more about the luxury end of the equation then the sport, making these cars being compared with the passat, technically that of cross shopping, but in reality, when luxury, price, power, etc is compared viable competitors) may be a tough sell

SOLAR
08-09-2005, 06:46 PM
<IMG SRC="http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/309/passcopy0ps.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>could the one in the middle be anything different than the passats out now? the wheels are different...just a thought.

knicks125
08-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Agreed. As I said before, I like the Passat, espeically the 3.8 V6; but I am afraid the position of the Passat is somewhat delicate. see my post from previous page:<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the new Passat a lot but one thing that is holding back the US spec is the price. I just can't put VW on the same level as BMW, Acura, Lexus, MB, Infinti, etc, that's where I believe Audi comes into play. Despite VW's two high-end products, Phaeton and Touareg, the brand is still viewed mostly as entry-level by many here in the US. As for the Passat, competing with the likes of Camry, Accord, Sonata, Altima and others, in a class where price is one of the most imporant factors and a sensitive market, it is hard for VW. Many features in the Passat, although desired by some and are nice features, are not top prorities for mainstream midsize sedan buyers. <p>On the other hand, if you move up the Passat up one level and compare it to the likes of TL, G35, 3er, and others, in my opinion, game over. This is why both the Jetta and the Passat suffer, and both are in delicate situations, as both are too expensive for mainstream buyers, and not given much chance for premium sedan buyers. This is another factor why VW has not really succeeded much since its entrance into the US.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I will do comparison tests as soon as I get a chance (Passat vs. midsize sedans; Passat vs. large sedans; Passat vs. premium sedans)

zwei Biere bitte
08-09-2005, 07:00 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Examples please.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I can't think of specifics at the moment (VW doesn't have the New Passat up on their site yet) but things that come to mind are traction and stability control, 4 wheel disc brakes (You can still get the Camry with drums), side airbags. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Remember, price sensitivity is very important in this class, a sharp increase could very well turn away some valuable customers. Also, many customers in this class do not desire too much about some of the options, reliabilty and safety espeically are much more important than amenities.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>And considering the average price of a new car in the U.S is just over $26,000... <p>To be honest, I don't see how you can make a generalization about the midsize market like that without some examples. Just like how I know some people who don't really care about how safe their car is, and then others who have safety as their top priority. If you don't mind me asking, what options did you get on your Sonata? <p>And let's not forget that the base version can outrun a V6 Accord, V6 Altima, and a V6 Sonata, while the Accord is more expensive, and the Altima is within a few hundred dollars (Factor in the Euro exchange rate and it's hard to see how VW is going to make a big profit). <p>

SOLAR
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
can anyone confirm my post of the picture of the passats?

knicks125
08-09-2005, 07:21 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't think of specifics at the moment (VW doesn't have the New Passat up on their site yet) but things that come to mind are traction and stability control, 4 wheel disc brakes (You can still get the Camry with drums), side airbags.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>True, the only car that come to mind with those standard features is the Sonata, with a loaded version is below the base starting price of the Passat.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And considering the average price of a new car in the U.S is just over $26,000...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I thought it was 22,000 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To be honest, I don't see how you can make a generalization about the midsize market like that without some examples. Just like how I know some people who don't really care about how safe their car is, and then others who have safety as their top priority. If you don't mind me asking, what options did you get on your Sonata?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Fair enough. I was making those statements based on various articles I read over the year. While I can't pinpoint one article which clearly states, I can tell you most consumers prefer safety + reliability over amenties, in this class. Thus I think they are called midsize family sedans, conservative, and nothing out of the ordinary. An example I can think of is the Navi option on models such as the Camry and the Accord - the percentage of those who picked those options are very very low.<p>My Sonata is trim GLS V6, with options (package #5) - sunroof, 17" ally wheels (Michelin tires), and a few others - I really didn't have to get that option package but I got a good deal out of it so why not, as I told myself. I would have defn. gotten the ABS, side & curtain airbags, traction control, and other saftey if they were options but the Sonata came with those standard <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>zwei Biere bitte</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And let's not forget that the base version can outrun a V6 Accord, V6 Altima, and a V6 Sonata, while the Accord is more expensive, and the Altima is within a few hundred dollars (Factor in the Euro exchange rate and it's hard to see how VW is going to make a big profit).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Base version is 2.0t - rated @ 200hp, I am pretty sure that is less than the V6 you mentioned. Nonetheless, it's still a impressive engine, along with the 3.6 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by knicks125 at 10:27 PM 8/9/2005</i>

megadethmartyr
08-09-2005, 07:58 PM
Just for reference C &D ran the Sonata 0-60 in 7 flat. Thought I'd throw that in.

phaeton
08-09-2005, 08:03 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Hornbag</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Well VW! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bowdown.gif" BORDER="0"> Im telling nan to get one, to replace her Liberty! She has always wanted a German, and VW has finally cut the price and made the Passat better looking, FANTASTIC JOB VW!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/ylsuper.gif" BORDER="0"> <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p><B>Hornbag</B> The new pricing is directed at customers like your Nan in the Liberty I suggest a Diesel if your Nan is interested great fuel economy with possible 4Motion as I'm sure she likes her AWD.<p>Lets just pray VGA keep the promise of a cheaper German built Passat.<p>ps Don't quote me on the price I read it in the paper <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Hornbag
08-10-2005, 01:19 AM
I texted her yesterday and she sounded really interested. If the car drives well, and they can get the new Passat 4motion in Australia asap, then she will be sold! She likes how it looks too!<p>But she isnt keen on the diesel, she still has those 'dirrty' views on them.<p>Anyway, when is this due is Australia?

phaeton
08-10-2005, 02:54 AM
Passat Sedan is due Nov/Dec Wagon & 4Motion Mid 2006.<p>ps 4Motion is not on scheduled list from what I've read but is probably been evaluated all the time for AUS consumption.<br>

CosworthKid
08-10-2005, 06:00 AM
I am surprised that VW hasn't released the Passat in the US or Australia yet. I mean they said they will heavily market it against the 3-series so..dunno..i kind of expected a world wide release at the same time.Anyway, i've seen a few around where i live, and my neighbour also owns one. I personaly like it even though it does have a big ass!It also gives the impression of a car that is bigger than an <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/images/smilies/sponge.gif" BORDER="0"> 3-series

knicks125
08-10-2005, 06:26 AM
The new Passat has reached US dealers already, a few weeks ago.

Bluesman
08-10-2005, 01:49 PM
I inspected one just today, the dealer had (3) of them and they still needed prep work. They're going to call when it's ready to drive.<p>Nice car, it looks much better than the old design. Still has that cheap VW feel to it...hard plastics, cheap switches etc.... One of these cars already had the door panel off for a repair of some type.<p>200 h.p. 4 cyl turbo! Wow, that's impressive for a 4 banger.. I'll let you know how it runs. Just think what they could do with 2 more cylinders.....

knicks125
08-10-2005, 03:04 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bluesman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just think what they could do with 2 more cylinders.....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>3.6 V6 @ 280hp, perhaps <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Bluesman
08-10-2005, 07:02 PM
Exactly....why bother with the 4 banger.

SV
08-10-2005, 07:10 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bluesman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Still has that cheap VW feel to it...hard plastics, cheap switches etc.... One of these cars already had the door panel off for a repair of some type.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>are you using some variation of the word "cheap" that i wasn't previously aware of? because as far as i know, from reading countless reviews to actually sitting in their cars, volkswagen makes some of the best-quality interiors in any class, by any standard. <p>not to get hostile, i'm just in a crabby mood right now.

[AP]adiweb
08-11-2005, 03:04 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>are you using some variation of the word "cheap" that i wasn't previously aware of? because as far as i know, from reading countless reviews to actually sitting in their cars, volkswagen makes some of the best-quality interiors in any class, by any standard. <p>not to get hostile, i'm just in a crabby mood right now.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You are rite, i have sat several time in the new passat because we actually wanted to get one. The materials are quite good in fact, there is just some hard plastic in the door panel which does not look very expensive. but the rest is good stuff. The aluminium trim has a material quality similar to an audi, whereas on the other hand the wood stuff looks too flat anbd thin to make me believe they use real wood. (i dont know, i just felt like it was a fake lol). The alcantara-leather qaulity of the seats is superb, the best material in it's class for sure.<br>And as for the builing quality: It's on a top level as well. Just the very first series of cars had some problems, but now they are again on a top level.

Gromit
08-11-2005, 03:59 AM
The problem with the new Passat is that it's dull, dull, dull.<p>I mean, can you honestly find anything about it that's new or individual? Does it have even the slightest spark of character? Any sign whatsoever that the designers weren't working on autopilot?<p>It'll look great on the taxi ranks of Wolfsburg, but for pity's sake - it's a boring piece of work by anyone's standards. The automotive equivalent of neatly-pressed beige slacks and a navy polo shirt.<p>Hardly a car to merit 10 pages of discussion. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/sleep.gif" BORDER="0">

Reppu
08-11-2005, 04:28 AM
Well, i respect your opinion....but i don't agree with you. I love the car, it has a lot of presence specially in a side view, and in the streets it gives the impression to be upper class.<p>By the way, i took it with wood instead of aluminium trim because the dealer told me that it was not aluminium but only a very noticeable fake. Now somebody said that it gives the same feeling than the Audi al. Can anybody confirm this point? I have not seen the al. trim in real.

Gromit
08-11-2005, 04:41 AM
Sure, we can agree to disagree! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>But...to back up my point of view, let me quote a few lines from Andrew Frankel's test (Sunday Times newspaper):<p>"For an all-new car it is spectacularly unadventurous: as middle of the road as David Gray, as technically honed as Phil Collins, and little more entertaining than either. <p>Its greatest diversion from the Passat formbook is that it no longer uses a platform shared with the old Audi A6, but an extended version of that used by the new Golf. What a rebel. <p>None of this stops VW trying to convince you that the new Passat is a car full of emotion and one that will satisfy every sporting sinew in your body; but if you take a test drive youll not be far beyond the showroom doors before you realise thats cobblers. Its just another Passat, albeit rather more modern, and I for one cannot fault that."<p>And:<p>"Its not exciting in the least but you cant blame VW for talking up its game. Child-proof workhorse you can drive in public may be the most accurate description of its strengths but thats not going to find you many fresh sales in a tricky and rapidly contracting corner of the market."<p>Full review here: <A HREF="http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14138-1686286,00.html" TARGET="_blank">http://driving.timesonline.co.....html</A><p>He does say some nice things about it, but that's not my point. I'm sure it's a good car; I just don't think it's a very interesting one!<p>And in the same vein, let me steal a bit of Jeremy Clarkson:<p>"If you thought the last Passat was dull to behold, you really aint seen nothing yet. This new one is sculptured ditchwater. It looks like it was styled by someone who was either in a big hurry to get the job done or who was having sex at the time. As a result, it is the motoring equivalent of Belgium: something you simply wont notice."<p>"I must say that overall the Passat is a dreary and boring car. But it does have just enough attention to detail to make it a worthwhile buy for those who dont care about cutting a dash. Except of course all these people already have a Honda Accord and theyre jolly happy with it."<p>Full article here: <A HREF="http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1713435,00.html" TARGET="_blank">http://driving.timesonline.co.....html</A><p>Enjoy! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>[Edit: I see that Mr Clarkson's piece was quoted in full back on page 8. My apologies - I think I dozed off somewhere around the middle of page 6... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emwink.gif" BORDER="0"> ]<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Gromit at 4:47 AM 8/11/2005</i>

Reppu
08-11-2005, 05:47 AM
Sure it isn't a sporty car. It has been made for those like me who prefer ride quality and comfort. If you want a sport sedan you just don't go to a VW dealer.<p>My point is that, depending on your personal taste, this car can be much more interesting than, let's say, a Ferrari F430. A car is interesting as far as it fulfills your expectations.<p>And i would not take Clarkson's opinions too seriously, this guy thinks in terms of supercars only.

CosworthKid
08-11-2005, 06:18 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Reppu</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sure it isn't a sporty car. It has been made for those like me who prefer ride quality and comfort. If you want a sport sedan you just don't go to a VW dealer.<p>My point is that, depending on your personal taste, this car can be much more interesting than, let's say, a Ferrari F430. A car is interesting as far as it fulfills your expectations.<p>And i would not take Clarkson's opinions too seriously, this guy thinks in terms of supercars only.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I totally agree with you on this one man.I myself would probably never buy a Passat because i like my cars to have a sportier feeling to them.I'd wait for the 2007 Ford Mondeo or maybe the Alfa 159.Or if i had more money to spent i'd go for a 3-series. Point is, we cant expect all cars to follow the same guidelines.Some people love Mercs because of their smooth and quiet ride while others like BMWs because of their sportiness and driver involvement.I just wouldnt be fair to put all cars into one mould.As for comments made about the quality of VW producs:what are you talking about??VW has the best built quality in its class,either that is a Passat or Golf.Yes, VW might look a bit(or very) dull from the inside but that has nothing to do with quality.From what i read and hear VW quality is only second to much more expensive brands like Audi.

knicks125
08-11-2005, 07:13 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VW has the best built quality in its class</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Support please.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what i read and hear VW quality is only second to much more expensive brands like Audi.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well I would hope so, since there are only two nameplates you referred, VW & Audi. I would be more surprised if VW had came in third <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Bluesman
08-11-2005, 11:36 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>SV</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>are you using some variation of the word "cheap" that i wasn't previously aware of? because as far as i know, from reading countless reviews to actually sitting in their cars, volkswagen makes some of the best-quality interiors in any class, by any standard.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No variation, the car feels cheap to me. You must remember that VW is like the Chevrolet of German cars in the U.S. Also keep in mind that VW is almost near the bottom of the JD Powers and Associates ratings.<p>I drove the car today and I do like the way it looks, I think it's a far better car than the previous version. <p>I did notice the brakes were a bit touchy a low speed. The 2.0 4 cyl. had tons of power once the turbo kicked in but there was some lag, it did rev to 6,000 rpm without any hesitation. I felt a consistant vibration at low speeds, ~ 35 mph but that may have been road feel. I thought the car had a hard bumpy ride but was told they had yet to adjust the tire pressures from shipping. The seating felt hard to me and I would prefer more comfort. Power seating would be nicer than the manual version I experienced.<p>I think I would prefer the 3.6L over the 2.0 but we'll have to wait till this fall to fully judge that.

taskbearer
08-11-2005, 12:09 PM
How come you're the first person I've heard from that the turbo in this engine "kicks in". Every review of this engine from the golf GTi to the audi A4 have praised this engine for its linear dilevry and lack of turbo lag. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> is there something I'm missing?

Bluesman
08-11-2005, 12:53 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>taskbearer</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How come you're the first person I've heard from that the turbo in this engine "kicks in". Every review of this engine from the golf GTi to the audi A4 have praised this engine for its linear dilevry and lack of turbo lag. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> is there something I'm missing?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't know, drive it and judge for yourself. Even the salesman admitted it was there, although better than pervious turbo models. It did have great power and acceleration, and once that turbo spools up look out! It really surprised me!<p>I'd rather have a VVT V6 than an I-4 turbo.

JBlair
08-11-2005, 01:13 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bluesman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No variation, the car feels cheap to me. You must remember that VW is like the Chevrolet of German cars in the U.S. Also keep in mind that VW is almost near the bottom of the JD Powers and Associates ratings.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, well so are nearly every european automaker. JD Powers rankings have more to do with customers than anything else, and sometimes customers expect more than they get. (a customer buying a chevy may not expect much but be pleasantly surprised, which results in a higher rating)

CosworthKid
08-11-2005, 02:09 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Support please.<p> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>You want me to give support to what i am saying?Mate i dont know about the US press,but European magazines and websites always praise VW built quality and always say it is the benchmark of its class/category.They reffer to the Golf,Passat and Polo mostly.Now,the whole reliability thing/issue has nothing to do with the quality of materials or finish...<p><br>

Bluesman
08-11-2005, 03:22 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Yeah, well so are nearly every european automaker. JD Powers rankings have more to do with customers than anything else, and sometimes customers expect more than they get. (a customer buying a chevy may not expect much but be pleasantly surprised, which results in a higher rating)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'm sorry but the customers are what it's all about...

zwei Biere bitte
08-11-2005, 04:00 PM
OK, was doing some reserch today as my mom's starting to get interested in a new car. I thought a new Passat would be nice, so I checked the local dealership inventories today. I can't believe this, but the cheapest 2006 Passat I've been able to find in my area is <i>over</i> $27,000, which is absurd. It doesn't seem like VW will kill itself this time, but instead it will be the dealers. <p>Just had to get that out :p

knicks125
08-11-2005, 04:19 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You want me to give support to what i am saying?Mate i dont know about the US press,but European magazines and websites always praise VW built quality and always say it is the benchmark of its class/category.They reffer to the Golf,Passat and Polo mostly.Now,the whole reliability thing/issue has nothing to do with the quality of materials or finish...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Journalists can say whatever they wanted, some are biased toward a certain namplate, while others are less subtle (obvious). Although there are no good measures, in my opinion, the best comes from the consumers, and that's why I have high respect for JD Power studies and Consumer Reports.<p>Just taking a quick look:<p>2005 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) (US): 33rd place (out of 37 nameplates)<p>2005 Initial Quality Study (IQS) (US): 33rd place (out of 37 nameplates)<p>2005 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 20th place (out of 27 nameplates)<p>2005 France Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 13th place (out of 25 nameplates)<p>2005 UK Car Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 16th place (out of 32 nameplates)<p>I am just curious as to the data you have gathered to form your conclusion.

JBlair
08-11-2005, 04:28 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Journalists can say whatever they wanted, some are biased toward a certain namplate, while others are less subtle (obvious). Although there are no good measures, in my opinion, the best comes from the consumers, and that's why I have high respect for JD Power studies and Consumer Reports.<p>Just taking a quick look:<p>2005 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) (US): 33rd place (out of 37 nameplates)<p>2005 Initial Quality Study (IQS) (US): 33rd place (out of 37 nameplates)<p>2005 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 20th place (out of 27 nameplates)<p>2005 France Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 13th place (out of 25 nameplates)<p>2005 UK Car Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study: 16th place (out of 32 nameplates)<p>I am just curious as to the data you have gathered to form your conclusion.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>READ what he said knicks. He's talking about the tactility of the materials used and the quality of the MATERIALS, not mechanical issues. (most of the problems in those studies are mechanically related.)<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bluesman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sorry but the customers are what it's all about...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Again, READ what I posted. I never said the customers weren't important, I just said that sometimes, especially with brands that have become known for good quality, a consumer can be overly disappointed and give a car an unfair rating. Its like you rating a mercedes poorly because it wasn't quite what you had expected, but still better than most other cars out there, and then going to a chevy/ford dealer expecting nothing out of the car and being pleasantly surprised. You'd rate the Mercedes lower than the Ford/Chevy, even though the mercedes does have higher quality. <p>You need to be careful when reading these consumer studies because they are NOT 100% accurate and very often do not represent the truth about a vehicle. (take the Hummer incident for example). Take them with a grain of salt, and don't bank your entire argument on the numbers they provide.

knicks125
08-11-2005, 05:03 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBlair</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">READ what he said knicks. He's talking about the tactility of the materials used and the quality of the MATERIALS, not mechanical issues. (most of the problems in those studies are mechanically related.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Agreed except he mentioned VWs are benchmark in their respective classes, I just wanted to find out how the above are determined and how reputable that statement is.

Gromit
08-12-2005, 05:49 AM
The Passat is tested in the June edition of Top Gear magazine. Richard Fleury wrote:<p>"The interior is a puzzling mix-and-match combination of opulence and economy. The cabin layout is simple and some plastics feel brittle, yet other materials and technologies are lifted straight from VW's upmarket Phaeton. Rather pretentiously, VW calls this the 'democratisation of luxury' but the upshot is an overall improvement in quality and a surprising array of toys".<p>So maybe both sides of the argument are correct, as far as interior quality is concerned?

mirage77
08-12-2005, 08:13 AM
Perhaps. But wouldn't it be all the more better if the Passat is good-quality economy, instead of being halfway between opulence and economy? A mixed interior may appeal to none of the previously intended audiences.

Bluesman
08-12-2005, 08:25 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Gromit</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Passat is tested in the June edition of Top Gear magazine. Richard Fleury wrote:<p>"The interior is a puzzling mix-and-match combination of opulence and economy. The cabin layout is simple and some plastics feel brittle, yet other materials and technologies are lifted straight from VW's upmarket Phaeton. Rather pretentiously, VW calls this the 'democratisation of luxury' but the upshot is an overall improvement in quality and a surprising array of toys".<p>So maybe both sides of the argument are correct, as far as interior quality is concerned? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I would have to agree with that article. Overall it's much improved but a strange mix as they state. I still can't believe how much power that 2.0 turbo has........ <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

CosworthKid
08-12-2005, 12:57 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>knicks125</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Agreed except he mentioned VWs are benchmark in their respective classes, I just wanted to find out how the above are determined and how reputable that statement is.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>knicks125 as it was ponted above, i was indeed talking about the materials used and not mechanical issues.You ask me,again, how i determined that VW is the benchmark in tis class.The asnwer is,i was not the one who determined it but&lt;as i said before, it was the expert reviewers on almost every single magazine i've read the past 5 years,every TV Car show i've seen and every website i checked.For example, the VW Golf always has the best made interior and built from any of its competitors(cars near its price tag, not more upmarket cars like the A3), the Passat again was always preised for having the best made interior in tis class since last 2 generations and so on...Ive also sat in many VW models and i can say i agree with the experts mate.Plus another thing you need to understand: built quality and finish has nothing to do with the cabin being 'dull-looking" or un-exciting or,as pointed, a mix-and-match.It has to do with QUALITY.fullstop. The Audi,for example, is considered to be the benchmark in its own class, according to the same people. Personally i dont like the interior design of the A4 or the A6..but again,that has nothing to do with the built quality,just my personal taste in interior design.

spwolf
08-12-2005, 03:13 PM
sorry but plenty of German media has pointed out how both new Golf and Passat have some lower quality plastic this time, this was mentioned in every major german magazine.<p>Build quality has nothing to do with materials used, but with how it is all screwed together.<p>Year later, I dont think anyone is charmed by Golf interior anymore, I wonder if that will happen to Passat as well...

knicks125
08-12-2005, 10:31 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>CosworthKid</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>knicks125 as it was ponted above, i was indeed talking about the materials used and not mechanical issues.You ask me,again, how i determined that VW is the benchmark in tis class.The asnwer is,i was not the one who determined it but&lt;as i said before, it was the expert reviewers on almost every single magazine i've read the past 5 years,every TV Car show i've seen and every website i checked.For example, the VW Golf always has the best made interior and built from any of its competitors(cars near its price tag, not more upmarket cars like the A3), the Passat again was always preised for having the best made interior in tis class since last 2 generations and so on...Ive also sat in many VW models and i can say i agree with the experts mate.Plus another thing you need to understand: built quality and finish has nothing to do with the cabin being 'dull-looking" or un-exciting or,as pointed, a mix-and-match.It has to do with QUALITY.fullstop. The Audi,for example, is considered to be the benchmark in its own class, according to the same people. Personally i dont like the interior design of the A4 or the A6..but again,that has nothing to do with the built quality,just my personal taste in interior design.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>If you still have those websites or articles saved, I would appreciated if you could post them so I can take a look.<p>Let me get the straight, your argument about VW being the benchmark in best built quality (in its class), what exactly does that translate into for the consumers? The nameplate, which is claimed to have the best built quality still give consumers problems and headache <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/nixweiss.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I thought quality cars were supposed to be, in most case, problem free, or somewhat close to that. However, VWs in many parts of the world are not reputationally known for its quality, reliability and other related factors.<p>I am not saying you are wrong, rather, I just would like to see some of those articles you have referred to. Thanks! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif" BORDER="0">

Bluesman
08-15-2005, 07:02 PM
Anyone who thinks that VW is a benchmark automobile should read THIS:<p><A HREF="http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Mechanics_Tale/Mechanics_Tale_VW_Heal_Thyself.S281.A9081.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.thecarconnection.co....html</A><p>Absolutely histerical writing!

oversteer
08-16-2005, 09:29 AM
This is good stuff ! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I was starting to consider the new golf, when it will be in NA but i'am not so sure anymore <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/bangin.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Had no problem with my '92 Jetta but you know...

Bluesman
08-16-2005, 10:26 AM
Nothing I didn't already know. I have a friend who recently bought a 99'? Passat diesel, a few months after he bought it the engine quit... Some $1,800 + later and it runs again. But hey! It saves money on gas!......<p>The same guy had a VW Dasher Diesel in the late 80's. Same story, nightmare and expensive to repair. That one bit the dust too as I recall.<p>Yikes..........

drugmirko
08-16-2005, 12:46 PM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bluesman</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone who thinks that VW is a benchmark automobile should read THIS:<p><A HREF="http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Mechanics_Tale/Mechanics_Tale_VW_Heal_Thyself.S281.A9081.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.thecarconnection.co....html</A><p>Absolutely histerical writing!</TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> true... but I know a lot of people that can say that for Ford, Alfa, Peugeot, Citroen, Opel... we had a guy that brought his brand new Mercedes to general distributors parking, threatening that he'll spill 50 litre canister of gasoline over his 100 k+ euro worth car and burn it right there, if they don't replace it with other vehicle, because everything broke on his car and they were unable to fix it in service... he brought a police, fire brigade and TV with him <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/laugh2.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> .<br>so, my point is... since cars are packed with electronics gadgets and engines are no longer something so simple that you can fiddle with in your own garage, there's no such thing as reliable car! no car brand is immune to failure...<p>and I have to agree with spwolf... materials in Golf V and latest Passat are not that good and build quality of Passat's interior did not impress me at all! <br>as for the VW bench marking theory... yes, VW is quite appreciated among people in central Europe, but Golf is their only model that has that bench mark of it's class title! Passat NEVER had it! mainly all VW's glory goes to Golf and Beatle fame! Passat was, up to the previous model, minor player in it's segment and definitely was NO wet dream of that segment buyers! Opel's Ascona and Vectra were more desired cars of that segment (at least in my part of Europe). VW went to change that in second half of 90' with previous Passat and Phaeton plans&production. I remember letters of Audi owners, when previous Passat came to market... "...This car is better than my A4..." or "...what's the point of owing my A4, when you can have all that and more in Passat.. I feel cheated..." <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>funny thing was that they were right! towards first A4 it was a better car for build quality and interior materials! and engines and platform were the same... people really felt cheated <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.germancarfans.com/images/forums/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> .<br>but there's no such thing with current Passat and A4... it felt kind of "up class" when I sat back in my A4 after test driving Passat, even though it is not the latest, restyled version of A4....

bucket
09-06-2005, 07:29 AM
i know this discussion has passed this point, faded, and died, but it was pretty clear by the acceleration numbers that volks was testing the manual passat versus the automatic competitors. the 5 speed altimas with the V6 used to do 0-60 in less than 6.5, so one would imagine the more powerful engine would be marginally quicker. not to mention the 265hp SE-R which competes with a nicely-equipped 2.0T FSI in terms of price. <p>the passat is only a stone's throw away from the six-cylinder GS in terms of price, and dead even (or more expensive) than the G35--a much sportier car with a suspiciously similar side profile. <p>but wait, volkswagen isn't trying to compete with the sportier competition? they want to compete with the segment heavyweights? <p>if they want jetta to compete with the accord and camry, they'll need to do much better. while this jetta is significantly better looking and better-equipped than the outgoing model, but a corolla clone with an ancient engine (my sister's '90 audi had it) and a big, fat price tag isn't going to knock-off the segment leaders. the extra horsepower, sporty styling, and gimmicks aren't going to draw away the core of loyal buyers, especially not when volkswagen's two main weaknesses are honda and toyota's specialties-- resale value and reliability.<p>sincerely, <br>a former volks enthusiast who decided it was more fun to drive cars than worry about fixing them

spwolf
09-06-2005, 07:35 AM
well, biggest VW problem in the US is that its cars compete in wrong segments. Jetta is Corolla with Camry price, Passat is Camry with Avalon price.<p>VW will never become large seller in the US with this kind of pricing, although I am sure that right now their main goal is profitability and not large sales...

bucket
09-06-2005, 07:37 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>spwolf</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VW will never become large seller in the US with this kind of pricing, although I am sure that right now their main goal is profitability and not large sales...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>true enough. they may not be a legit threat to the japanese, but at least they're not losing money like ford and GM.

spwolf
09-06-2005, 10:15 AM
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bucket</b> &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>true enough. they may not be a legit threat to the japanese, but at least they're not losing money like ford and GM.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>actually, VW in the US is losing huge amounts of money and sales have slowed down a lot... :-).

Bluesman
09-06-2005, 11:34 AM
They (VW) really needs to fix their problems in Europe before they'll ever amount to anything here in the U.S. The weight of their over bloated work force needs to be addressed, then they can talk about returning profit and thus start investing in building better cars.

knicks125
10-03-2005, 08:13 PM
<A HREF="http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103278" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103278</A><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote &raquo;</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><B>Despite improvements, VW's new Passat encountering tough competition, flat sales</B><br>DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News <br>Posted Date: 10/3/05<br>Despite the numerous improvements, more-powerful engines and competitive price, Volkswagen of America Inc. doesn't expect U.S. sales of the new-generation Passat to increase substantially.<p>The larger Passat competes in the family-sized vehicle segment against three Japanese automakers with better quality ratings than VW -- which was fourth from the bottom in this year's J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study.<p>The sixth-generation 2006 Passat will match the peak sales of the previous model, which were 96,142 for both the sedan and wagon versions in 2002, says David Wicks, director of sales for VW. He doesn't predict sales above that number.<p>"Sales are tough for us to project because of the competitive entries in the market. We are cross-shopped against the Camry, Accord and Altima," Wicks says.<p>Those three models have consistently outsold the Passat. In 2004, 426,990 Camrys were sold in the United States. Passat sales fell to 67,640 cars last year, compared with 76,977 in 2003.<p>The competitors far outsell VW because all three brands have a full range of vehicles and lure more buyers into their showrooms, Wicks says.<p>Conservative forecast<p>VW also is hesitant to forecast higher Passat sales because more U.S. consumers are buying trucks than in 2000, says Wicks.<p>The Passat arrived at auto dealerships in late July.<p>Kevin Eckhart, owner of Santa Barbara (Calif.) Volkswagen, says the car "will help reverse a long dry spell."<p>VW continues to put premium pricing on the vehicle. Prices start at $23,565 for the 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbocharged value edition. A 2.0-liter turbo model with a six-speed automatic transmission and a package including a sunroof, CD changer and satellite radio costs $25,590 -- pricier than comparable Japanese vehicles. Prices include shipping.<p>Rather than decontent the car in light of VW's profitability problems in the United States and the currency disadvantage, the 2006 Passat is filled with premium German engineering.<p>"That is where VW comes in, and that's the position of our brand," says Wicks.<p>"We're not selling appliances -- we are selling fun and invigorating cars that people love to drive. We can offer an affordable European alternative to the mainstream, not-so-exciting Japanese cars," he says.<p>AWD, wagon coming<p>This year, the Passat gets a new 3.6-liter V-6 engine that makes 280 hp mated to a six-speed automatic transmission with a Tiptronic shifter.<p>There are no plans for a manual transmission.<p>VW will not offer the costlier V-8 engine with this generation, says Wicks. An all-wheel-drive model and the station wagon both go on sale in February. VW expects the V-6 to account for only 20 percent of Passat sales, Wicks says.<p>Despite the improvements and larger size, VW did not move the Passat up half a segment like it did with the larger new-generation Jetta.<p>"We had the ability to move a little bit, but we maintained a good position where the old Passat was," says Wicks. The average transaction price of the new-generation car will be about $27,300 -- similar to that of the previous model, he said.<p>But Wicks says the six-cylinder engine will allow the Passat to compete against the near-luxury cars that include Volvo, Infiniti and Acura models.</TD></TR></TABLE><p><IMG SRC="http://www.autonews.com/images/random/100305/17_passat_gfx250.gif" BORDER="0">